The Pegula Plan

[TheFunPolice]

Darcy aint goin nowhere!

 

That's the Pegula plan. They think Darcy is a genius who was just hamstrung by Golisano.... which is why the team had an amazing two year run under Goliano and went into the toilet under Pegula.

 

I'd rather have Pegula as owner, don;t get me wrong. But save me the "Darcy's only REALLY had two years" line. The guy has been here since the dawn of time and has been medicore.

[nfreeman]

[/size]

 

Pronouns. Check 'em.

 

Your point is taken, but your post was still out of line.

[Two or less]

The thing is, for me atleast, is change is needed NOW in the hockey department. We have 8 picks in the first two rounds of the next two drafts, and have two major assets (possibly three if you consider Ott). This team is not going to be winning next season. So, thinking of keeping Darcy to start the rebuild just to get rid of him next summer if things arent going as well is a waste. This is the perfect time for a change. Not only at GM, but to bring in and expend the hockey department.

[TheMatrix31]

A Thomas Sowell quote on a Sabres board?! *applause*

 

 

Look, all of this takes time. Only one team wins per year. Sure we'd love to see more progress by now, but the bitching has gotten to an unfathomable level.

[PASabreFan]

A Thomas Sowell quote on a Sabres board?! *applause*

 

 

Look, all of this takes time. Only one team wins per year. Sure we'd love to see more progress by now, but the bitching has gotten to an unfathomable level.

 

Only one team wins per year? Where have we heard that? If being realistic is the idea here, how is it that Ted Black came to articulate the "championship machine" goal of the franchise? When was the last time the Dallas Cowboys were a Stanley Cup championship machine?

[LTS]

Actually, they hold open, annual meetings where stockholders and analysts attend and ask questions......you know.....sort of like an end of season press conference......

Yeah, it was a bad analogy. he was referring to public corporations, not privately held ones.......

 

Yep. Either way.. Still, a stockholder meeting is not going to give full disclosure of what is wrong with the company. It would report what it had to report and everything else is held in check because the general public can't be trusted with full disclosure. They'll overreact or react to the response of someone outside of the company who is supposedly "knowledgeable" about the product, etc.

 

Bottom line, it's a version of the truth and not the whole truth.

[Andrew Amerk]

So this is where it dies?

 

I'm just bothered by the fluctuation in attitude.

[PASabreFan]

So this is where it dies?

 

I'm just bothered by the fluctuation in attitude.

 

I think some fans are afraid to face the possibility that what we've heard from Terry several times since Day One is the real Terry, and that his attitude is not much different than the Knoxes, the Rigases or Golisano: we'll try, but, hey, it's tough and rare to win one of these. I think the Knoxes remain the gold standard: they hired proven winners to try and accomplish their goal: Imlach, Bowman, Muckler. It failed, but they gave it a shot.

[TheFunPolice]

They love Darcy....

 

It begins and ends with that. Obviously winning a championship is not a burning desire if he stays here.

[Two or less]

They love Darcy....

 

It begins and ends with that. Obviously winning a championship is not a burning desire if he stays here.

 

They do?

 

Because they don't bash their general manager during the regular season? Because they show support to the general manager during the low days?

 

Not sure if i believe their love for Darcy, and the more i'm thinking about it with speculating from Dreger, Toronto Globe and now Burnside about Darcy being on thin ice, is that Terry Pegula understands the booing is for the product, not the organization. He knows this is not a Cup contender. Ed Kilgore, about two weeks or so before accepting the job to work for Pegula said something very telling IMO... he said, there's a reason Pegula is quiet. It's because he understands words are cheap and there is absolutely NOTHING he can say that will change/fix fans' opinion right now. Kilgore went on to say, that Pegula is as upset as any fan at the current product.

 

At the time, it seemed like Kilgore is purely speculating, but since he now works for Pegula, maybe he speaks to him on a consistent basis? Maybe Pegula knows that even a statement after the season won't fix anything, but action will, and firing Darcy Regier will be the loudest and biggest move he can make as owner of this organization.

 

I may be way ahead of myself, but i will literally be upset if i misread/thought too much into what Kilgore said, and Darcy isn't fired. For me, it's a done deal. He's done.

[TheFunPolice]

I hope so Vanek man! We'll see in the relatively near future...

 

Love the name BTW!

[Eleven]

At least some people understand that just because the team is ######, doesn't mean that Pegula is bad for Buffalo:

 

https://twitter.com/LindyRuffsTie/status/325173401817853953/photo/1

 

Wish I would have known. I would have chipped in.

[spndnchz]

At least some people understand that just because the team is ######, doesn't mean that Pegula is bad for Buffalo:

 

https://twitter.com/...7853953/photo/1

 

Wish I would have known. I would have chipped in.

 

Heard about this the other day. It reportedly was Larry Quinn's idea.

[tom webster]

Heard about this the other day. It reportedly was Larry Quinn's idea.

 

I'm all over the place on this;

 

1) I would hope that the Pegula's understand that most people, while upset with the hockey team, feel the same way as the "millionaires" club

2) Is Larry begging for an Ed Kilgore appointment

3) Curious that TG and LQ signed off on this since Black seems to blame everything bad about the team on them

4) Are we really that worried about keeping Pegula happy? Strikes me as typical Buffalo, worried that they don't deserve this billionaires attention

 

At the end of the day, its not that big of a deal

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm all over the place on this;

 

1) I would hope that the Pegula's understand that most people, while upset with the hockey team, feel the same way as the "millionaires" club

2) Is Larry begging for an Ed Kilgore appointment

3) Curious that TG and LQ signed off on this since Black seems to blame everything bad about the team on them

4) Are we really that worried about keeping Pegula happy? Strikes me as typical Buffalo, worried that they don't deserve this billionaires attention

 

At the end of the day, its not that big of a deal

Is it such an affront to you that people dare to express some appreciation for an owner who is trying to do good things for the city? Yes Buffalo is such an important valuable market. Any owner should kiss the ground that we allow them the privilege of operating here.

 

PTR

[Eleven]

I'm all over the place on this;

 

1) I would hope that the Pegula's understand that most people, while upset with the hockey team, feel the same way as the "millionaires" club

2) Is Larry begging for an Ed Kilgore appointment

3) Curious that TG and LQ signed off on this since Black seems to blame everything bad about the team on them

4) Are we really that worried about keeping Pegula happy? Strikes me as typical Buffalo, worried that they don't deserve this billionaires attention

 

At the end of the day, its not that big of a deal

 

"typical Buffalo" is driving someone away who is trying to do something good in/for this city. "Typical Buffalo" is some of the comments in this thread. This gesture was the opposite of "typical Buffalo" and it is what we need.

[HopefulFuture]

"typical Buffalo" is driving someone away who is trying to do something good in/for this city. "Typical Buffalo" is some of the comments in this thread. This gesture was the opposite of "typical Buffalo" and it is what we need.

 

Well then Eleven, define "typical Buffalo".

Facts of the area pretty much tell you the story of what has happened here, without going into detail, it stands as fact that electricity drove industry to the area in the early 1900's, it became "THE" manufacturing hub for many years. Following WW2 the 1950's occured which were the true golden years of America and Buffalo thrived almost as no other city had during that era, then the 60's occured as other nations industrial basis were by then fully rebuilt companies began to leave the area and that continued for many years which left a large vacuum in the area. For a region that went from roughly 3.5 million down to 1.5 million in a 40 year span, I would think what you define as "typical Buffalo" may come from a viewpoint of not fully understanding the lack of leadership the area has had, corruption, state mandates, allowing the area to be the chemical epicenter of the industry only to later find out that very industry destroyed much of the land it sits on.......

 

And the list can go on.

Terry Pegula, being in the energy industry and subsequently knowing in detail the potential in Marcellus Shale gas, then selling his business for a very nice return and coming to the secondary area of Marcellus Shale to uplift regional communities while at the same time advocating a very controversial drilling process, I would think you could forgive some of us older folk if we are not fully sold on what exactly Pegula's plan is.

 

The only stupid questions are the ones not asked. And skepticism, although what would appear to be somewhat rampant to you in this area, is not only justified, but must be a standard given all the region has gone through over the past 100 years. It's not meant to impede progress by many, but I'm sure it's more to promote complete transparency by the powers that be.

You shouldn't put tunnel vision to work and play down or minimize those who have seen what they have seen in the region across 2 or 3 generations.

[Eleven]

Well then Eleven, define "typical Buffalo".

Facts of the area pretty much tell you the story of what has happened here, without going into detail, it stands as fact that electricity drove industry to the area in the early 1900's, it became "THE" manufacturing hub for many years. Following WW2 the 1950's occured which were the true golden years of America and Buffalo thrived almost as no other city had during that era, then the 60's occured as other nations industrial basis were by then fully rebuilt companies began to leave the area and that continued for many years which left a large vacuum in the area. For a region that went from roughly 3.5 million down to 1.5 million in a 40 year span, I would think what you define as "typical Buffalo" may come from a viewpoint of not fully understanding the lack of leadership the area has had, corruption, state mandates, allowing the area to be the chemical epicenter of the industry only to later find out that very industry destroyed much of the land it sits on.......

 

And the list can go on.

Terry Pegula, being in the energy industry and subsequently knowing in detail the potential in Marcellus Shale gas, then selling his business for a very nice return and coming to the secondary area of Marcellus Shale to uplift regional communities while at the same time advocating a very controversial drilling process, I would think you could forgive some of us older folk if we are not fully sold on what exactly Pegula's plan is.

 

The only stupid questions are the ones not asked. And skepticism, although what would appear to be somewhat rampant to you in this area, is not only justified, but must be a standard given all the region has gone through over the past 100 years. It's not meant to impede progress by many, but I'm sure it's more to promote complete transparency by the powers that be.

You shouldn't put tunnel vision to work and play down or minimize those who have seen what they have seen in the region across 2 or 3 generations.

 

I'll repeat that I can understand (but disagree with) those who criticize how Pegula made his money. I cannot understand those who criticize him for spending it on development in downtown Buffalo. Makes no sense. There really are no questions to ask, there.

[PromoTheRobot]

Well then Eleven, define "typical Buffalo".

Facts of the area pretty much tell you the story of what has happened here, without going into detail, it stands as fact that electricity drove industry to the area in the early 1900's, it became "THE" manufacturing hub for many years. Following WW2 the 1950's occured which were the true golden years of America and Buffalo thrived almost as no other city had during that era, then the 60's occured as other nations industrial basis were by then fully rebuilt companies began to leave the area and that continued for many years which left a large vacuum in the area. For a region that went from roughly 3.5 million down to 1.5 million in a 40 year span, I would think what you define as "typical Buffalo" may come from a viewpoint of not fully understanding the lack of leadership the area has had, corruption, state mandates, allowing the area to be the chemical epicenter of the industry only to later find out that very industry destroyed much of the land it sits on.......

 

And the list can go on.

Terry Pegula, being in the energy industry and subsequently knowing in detail the potential in Marcellus Shale gas, then selling his business for a very nice return and coming to the secondary area of Marcellus Shale to uplift regional communities while at the same time advocating a very controversial drilling process, I would think you could forgive some of us older folk if we are not fully sold on what exactly Pegula's plan is.

 

The only stupid questions are the ones not asked. And skepticism, although what would appear to be somewhat rampant to you in this area, is not only justified, but must be a standard given all the region has gone through over the past 100 years. It's not meant to impede progress by many, but I'm sure it's more to promote complete transparency by the powers that be.

You shouldn't put tunnel vision to work and play down or minimize those who have seen what they have seen in the region across 2 or 3 generations.

 

Ha. Tunnel vision. Good one. Let's discuss tunnel vision, shall we?

 

First off, metro Buffalo was never close to being 3.5 million people, as you contend. At it's peak, metro Buffalo (made up of Erie and Niagara counties) was 1.4 million people in the 1970's. Buffalo city, at it's peak, was 580,000 in the 1950's. Most of those people fled to the suburbs.

 

What really killed Buffalo is a history of feuds, blunders and bad decisions that date back to the 1850's. Ever wonder why Central Terminal is where it is and not in downtown? Because the Erie Lakawanna wouldn't let the New York Central railway use their tracks into the city. McKinley assassination? That did wonders for the city's rep. Wellend Canal? Canadians built that while the US side fought over the idea of a US canal. Why was UB built on swamp land instead of downtown? A big Rockefeller donor owned all that land.

 

Taxes and regulations drove our industry away? Then why does Hamilton still have a thriving steel industry? How is that possible in a socialist economy like Canada? No question Buffalo and pretty much every level of government here is rife with graft, but what large city isn't? The truth is most of the jobs left for China because people there work for peanuts, and because our government let's big business loot our country and then hide their money offshore.

 

But one thing Buffalo has plenty of is self-pity. We have a million reasons to feel sorry for ourselves. Bad teams, bad weather, bad economy, yadda yadda yadda. We can turn any good thing into a pile of stink. And when we beat the odds and get a sports owner who is actually in it for the love of the sport and wants to make his corner of the city a little better, we tear him to shreds because he didn't get us our championship fast enough. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

PTR

[PASabreFan]

The plan is working. "Winning is not a goal."

[HopefulFuture]

Ha. Tunnel vision. Good one. Let's discuss tunnel vision, shall we?

 

First off, metro Buffalo was never close to being 3.5 million people, as you contend. At it's peak, metro Buffalo (made up of Erie and Niagara counties) was 1.4 million people in the 1970's. Buffalo city, at it's peak, was 580,000 in the 1950's. Most of those people fled to the suburbs.

 

What really killed Buffalo is a history of feuds, blunders and bad decisions that date back to the 1850's. Ever wonder why Central Terminal is where it is and not in downtown? Because the Erie Lakawanna wouldn't let the New York Central railway use their tracks into the city. McKinley assassination? That did wonders for the city's rep. Wellend Canal? Canadians built that while the US side fought over the idea of a US canal. Why was UB built on swamp land instead of downtown? A big Rockefeller donor owned all that land.

 

Taxes and regulations drove our industry away? Then why does Hamilton still have a thriving steel industry? How is that possible in a socialist economy like Canada? No question Buffalo and pretty much every level of government here is rife with graft, but what large city isn't? The truth is most of the jobs left for China because people there work for peanuts, and because our government let's big business loot our country and then hide their money offshore.

 

But one thing Buffalo has plenty of is self-pity. We have a million reasons to feel sorry for ourselves. Bad teams, bad weather, bad economy, yadda yadda yadda. We can turn any good thing into a pile of stink. And when we beat the odds and get a sports owner who is actually in it for the love of the sport and wants to make his corner of the city a little better, we tear him to shreds because he didn't get us our championship fast enough. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

PTR

 

You sir, are a fool, and really have no unearthly idea what you speak on.

the 6 counties that make up the "Greater Niagara Region" did indeed peak out at roughly 3.5 million. Oh, I'm sorry, does the Sabres fan base magically stop at the Erie and Niagara county lines? Forgive me for not realizing this ...... :doh:

 

What really killed Buffalo is a history of feuds, blunders and bad decisions that date back to the 1850's. Ever wonder why Central Terminal is where it is and not in downtown? Because the Erie Lakawanna wouldn't let the New York Central railway use their tracks into the city. McKinley assassination? That did wonders for the city's rep. Wellend Canal? Canadians built that while the US side fought over the idea of a US canal. Why was UB built on swamp land instead of downtown? A big Rockefeller donor owned all that land.

 

small potatoes compared to the industrialization of the region due to electrical generation. But, yes, cronyism is abundant in the area and a contributor, and has been.

 

Taxes and regulations drove our industry away? Then why does Hamilton still have a thriving steel industry? How is that possible in a socialist economy like Canada? No question Buffalo and pretty much every level of government here is rife with graft, but what large city isn't? The truth is most of the jobs left for China because people there work for peanuts, and because our government let's big business loot our country and then hide their money offshore.

 

Yes, a portion of the manufacturing flight was indeed due to this. Also, government contracts going to other companies instead of area companies as well as government funded agencies leaving. Hamilton's steel industry isn't even ranked top 10 in the world. Buffalo however, at one time was ranked number 3. But the industry didn't leave solely for cheaper labor, that would be masking failed leadership in the are. Mandates, taxes, free trade or reduced tariff agreements, sure, they were a part of some of the larger companies, but many, well over 60% of the companies that have left the area didn't leave the country, they went to different regions of this very nation due to what I listed here along with other reasons. You lie only to yourself if you believe NAFTA, CAFTA, Free or reduced trade agreements or cheaper labor was the largest contributing factor. Go tell it to the mountain brother, as the saying goes......

 

But one thing Buffalo has plenty of is self-pity. We have a million reasons to feel sorry for ourselves. Bad teams, bad weather, bad economy, yadda yadda yadda. We can turn any good thing into a pile of stink. And when we beat the odds and get a sports owner who is actually in it for the love of the sport and wants to make his corner of the city a little better, we tear him to shreds because he didn't get us our championship fast

enough. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

I believe there to be some self-pity here. But I don't believe for a moment Niagara Region residents are overwhelmingly wallowing in the past nor using it as an excuse for the future. To state Pegula is in it for the love of the sport is no more an opinion, a guess, if you will, then my statement he may not be.

You don't know, and I don't know.

 

What is known is that the cynicism seen here has some justified roots.

[PromoTheRobot]

You sir, are a fool, and really have no unearthly idea what you speak on.

the 6 counties that make up the "Greater Niagara Region" did indeed peak out at roughly 3.5 million. Oh, I'm sorry, does the Sabres fan base magically stop at the Erie and Niagara county lines? Forgive me for not realizing this ...... :doh:

 

What really killed Buffalo is a history of feuds, blunders and bad decisions that date back to the 1850's. Ever wonder why Central Terminal is where it is and not in downtown? Because the Erie Lakawanna wouldn't let the New York Central railway use their tracks into the city. McKinley assassination? That did wonders for the city's rep. Wellend Canal? Canadians built that while the US side fought over the idea of a US canal. Why was UB built on swamp land instead of downtown? A big Rockefeller donor owned all that land.

 

small potatoes compared to the industrialization of the region due to electrical generation. But, yes, cronyism is abundant in the area and a contributor, and has been.

 

Taxes and regulations drove our industry away? Then why does Hamilton still have a thriving steel industry? How is that possible in a socialist economy like Canada? No question Buffalo and pretty much every level of government here is rife with graft, but what large city isn't? The truth is most of the jobs left for China because people there work for peanuts, and because our government let's big business loot our country and then hide their money offshore.

 

Yes, a portion of the manufacturing flight was indeed due to this. Also, government contracts going to other companies instead of area companies as well as government funded agencies leaving. Hamilton's steel industry isn't even ranked top 10 in the world. Buffalo however, at one time was ranked number 3. But the industry didn't leave solely for cheaper labor, that would be masking failed leadership in the are. Mandates, taxes, free trade or reduced tariff agreements, sure, they were a part of some of the larger companies, but many, well over 60% of the companies that have left the area didn't leave the country, they went to different regions of this very nation due to what I listed here along with other reasons. You lie only to yourself if you believe NAFTA, CAFTA, Free or reduced trade agreements or cheaper labor was the largest contributing factor. Go tell it to the mountain brother, as the saying goes......

 

But one thing Buffalo has plenty of is self-pity. We have a million reasons to feel sorry for ourselves. Bad teams, bad weather, bad economy, yadda yadda yadda. We can turn any good thing into a pile of stink. And when we beat the odds and get a sports owner who is actually in it for the love of the sport and wants to make his corner of the city a little better, we tear him to shreds because he didn't get us our championship fast

enough. Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

I believe there to be some self-pity here. But I don't believe for a moment Niagara Region residents are overwhelmingly wallowing in the past nor using it as an excuse for the future. To state Pegula is in it for the love of the sport is no more an opinion, a guess, if you will, then my statement he may not be.

You don't know, and I don't know.

 

What is known is that the cynicism seen here has some justified roots.

 

Metropolitan Buffalo...the official census designation...is only Erie and Niagara counties. Look it up. If you are making up your own census area, say so.

 

PTR

[MattPie]

Metropolitan Buffalo...the official census designation...is only Erie and Niagara counties. Look it up. If you are making up your own census area, say so. So what 6 counties make up this "Greater Niagara Region" you speak of?

 

PTR

 

He's including rochester. :)

[HopefulFuture]

Metropolitan Buffalo...the official census designation...is only Erie and Niagara counties. Look it up. If you are making up your own census area, say so. So what 6 counties make up this "Greater Niagara Region" you speak of?

 

PTR

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2004/04/05/daily30.html

 

I even omitted one county which according to various other sources, don't consider that county a part of the area.

There are over 24 sources for this information, including but not limited to the US Census, New York State's various agencies that label the area as such and several other independent sources, I'll let you do your own leg work, since you appear hell bent on countering the point.

 

Post back when you've done the homework, if you so choose to.

 

He's including rochester. :)

 

Since you've seen fit to chime in, Rochester on down to a certain southern-tier New York city is considered the actual label Up-state New York. Also a key region in the Marcellus Shale situation. If you do the leg work, you will see where a point can be derived that it's at the very least plausible that the investments being made by Pegula in the region are an investment in the industry.

[PromoTheRobot]

http://www.bizjourna...05/daily30.html

 

I even omitted one county which according to various other sources, don't consider that county a part of the area.

There are over 24 sources for this information, including but not limited to the US Census, New York State's various agencies that label the area as such and several other independent sources, I'll let you do your own leg work, since you appear hell bent on countering the point.

 

Post back when you've done the homework, if you so choose to.

 

 

 

Since you've seen fit to chime in, Rochester on down to a certain southern-tier New York city is considered the actual label Up-state New York. Also a key region in the Marcellus Shale situation. If you do the leg work, you will see where a point can be derived that it's at the very least plausible that the investments being made by Pegula in the region are an investment in the industry.

 

So what 6 counties make up this "Greater Niagara Region" you speak of? Let's assume it's Erie, Niagara, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Genesee and Orleans. Here are their peak populations in the last 100 years:

 

Erie: 1,113,491 (1970)

Niagara: 242,269 (1960)

Chautauqua: 147,305 (1970)

Cattaraugus: 85,697 (1980)

Genesee: 60,060 (1990)

Orleans: 44,171 (2000)

 

At their peak, that's 1,692,993. So where's the other 1.8 million people you say lived here??? So let's add Rochester/Monroe County: 747,813 (2012 est.) Still a million short. Note I'm quoting the highest populations in the last 100 years.

 

I suppose if we keep adding counties, 10, 15, 20, eventually we'll get to 3.5 million. But this 50% drop in population you cite doesn't exist. I'm quoting US Census numbers.

 

PTR