TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I agree w/ you on that. A deal like this will most likely not be able to be made after the new CBA. Smart move by Weber and his agent, in my opinion. I also wonder if this is a sign and trade type of deal. I understand Nashville has to wait one season to do this, but it would not surprise me if he is traded next summer. Just hope he wouldn't be dealt to a team in the Eastern Conference. Way I see it, we'll know in a year if he actually wanted out or not. If they're shopping him next offseason, he wanted out. If not, he wanted this type of contract before it's impossible to get in the next CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I will say, this has not been a banner offseason for everybody's favorite GM Holmgren. Strikes out on Parise and Suter despite offering them the most money (allegedly), loses JVR, Jagr and Carle....and adds Luke Schenn. And now he can't get Weber for at least a year (and realistically, it's not happening after a year either). :oops: That makes me feel all fuzzy inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 So much for throwing an offer sheet at Voracek. What about Ryan O'Reilly in Colorado? He's still unsigned and the Avalanche have a healthy amount of young talent at center. He should get around $4mil/season from Colorado, but the speculation is that Matt Duchesne's hometown discount is hampering negotiations even though the Avs have close to $16mil in cap space and no one else left to sign. http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012/07/16/matt-duchenes-contract-hampering-ryan-oreilly-negotiations/11127/ http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_21120326/oreilly-deserves-his-deal-redfield-remembered-at-avalanche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 What about Ryan O'Reilly in Colorado? He's still unsigned and the Avalanche have a healthy amount of young talent at center. He should get around $4mil/season from Colorado, but the speculation is that Matt Duchesne's hometown discount is hampering negotiations even though the Avs have close to $16mil in cap space and no one else left to sign. http://blogs.denverp...tiations/11127/ http://www.denverpos...ed-at-avalanche Sure, but he's 21, 6'0", 200 lbs, led his team in scoring and led all forwards on his team in ice time last year. It also sounds like he's a good kid with a good work ethic. Doesn't seem like they would let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Sure, but he's 21, 6'0", 200 lbs, led his team in scoring and led all forwards on his team in ice time last year. It also sounds like he's a good kid with a good work ethic. Doesn't seem like they would let him go. I agree, but it's probably worth taking a shot--- would you trade a 1st and a 3rd for him and pay him $4.7mil/season? What about a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick at $5mil/season? I'd rather trade those picks than Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno, McNabb or Myers. If offer sheets were not so frowned upon we'd see more GMs roll the dice. If I'm willing to pay that price I'd take a chance--- possibly use the specter of an offer sheet as a negotiating tool in a trade discussion with Colorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 What about Ryan O'Reilly in Colorado? Like you said, the Avs have a ton of cap space and everyone else signed. So I doubt anyone would offer sheet him. But, maybe a sign and trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Like you said, the Avs have a ton of cap space and everyone else signed. So I doubt anyone would offer sheet him. But, maybe a sign and trade? There you go. I thought another option might be a straight up trade, but they may not be willing unless their hand is forced. It's more likely they move Stastny if the deal blows them away, especially considering his relatively large cap hit and Joey Hishon--- a center with a more offensive skill set than O'Reilly--- in the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I agree, but it's probably worth taking a shot--- would you trade a 1st and a 3rd for him and pay him $4.7mil/season? What about a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick at $5mil/season? I'd rather trade those picks than Ennis, Hodgson, Foligno, McNabb or Myers. If offer sheets were not so frowned upon we'd see more GMs roll the dice. If I'm willing to pay that price I'd take a chance--- possibly use the specter of an offer sheet as a negotiating tool in a trade discussion with Colorado. There you go. I thought another option might be a straight up trade, but they may not be willing unless their hand is forced. It's more likely they move Stastny if the deal blows them away, especially considering his relatively large cap hit and Joey Hishon--- a center with a more offensive skill set than O'Reilly--- in the pipeline. I would trade either of those packages for either O'Reilly or Stastny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I would trade either of those packages for either O'Reilly or Stastny. O'Reilly yes, Statsny no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Are the Flyers tired of bending over? So far Nashville, Minnesota, Tampa Bay and Dallas having them bending over to pick up the soap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Flyers offer Ennis 40 million 8 year contract............. j/k............. maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I would trade either of those packages for either O'Reilly or Stastny. Same here. If they match, nothing lost... unless there's still a stigma attached in the eyes of other GMs that gets you on the ###### list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Same here. If they match, nothing lost... unless there's still a stigma attached in the eyes of other GMs that gets you on the ###### list. As I said in the other thread, there ain't no ###### list. It's a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Flyers offer Ennis 40 million 8 year contract............. j/k............. maybe? I'll cut off my wanker and eat it for breakfast if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 As I said in the other thread, there ain't no ###### list. It's a myth. You're right. There was no public backlash after Kevin Lowe signed Vanek and Penner the same offseason. I think any reported friction over offer sheets stems from when a GM tells the offering team that he'll match any offer--- and then they offer anyway, at an exorbitant salary. Like Lowe, which may honestly be one of the few true examples. It's obviously frowned upon to some extent or it wouldn't be so rare and a topic of discussion every free agency period. It may be a thing of the past, however recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle III Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Nashville has decided to match the Flyers' offer. So Weber is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I admit, I was wrong. This move only makes sense if they are going to try and make themselves a successful team. Surely in that case they will be making more moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 You're right. There was no public backlash after Kevin Lowe signed Vanek and Penner the same offseason. I think any reported friction over offer sheets stems from when a GM tells the offering team that he'll match any offer--- and then they offer anyway, at an exorbitant salary. Like Lowe, which may honestly be one of the few true examples. It's obviously frowned upon to some extent or it wouldn't be so rare and a topic of discussion every free agency period. It may be a thing of the past, however recent. It's hard for there to be backlash against a guy who was out of the GM seat one year later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Was the public upset over the Vanek sheet? Sure. Was Darcy and many owners? Absolutely. But do they hamper a team's ability to do business? I haven't seen any evidence. The Flyers gave one to Kesler, the Canucks to Backes, the Blues to Bernier (!?!), the Sharks to Hjalmarsson. All these teams seemed to do business just fine last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 They do business just fine with most other GMs, but how many of those teams did business with each other after they made the offer to the RFA? Do you think theres gonna be no bad blood between the Flyers and Preds front office now and that they will be able to make trades with each other easily now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 David Poile had a Regier type off-season. A top player in Suter walked away with Nashville receiving zero compensation (Drury, Briere) and he allowed another team to negotiate a contract for his top RFA (ala Vanek). If there is any "backlash" , David Poile deserves to take the brunt of it like Regier did when he screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I think any reported friction over offer sheets stems from when a GM tells the offering team that he'll match any offer--- and then they offer anyway, at an exorbitant salary. Like Lowe, which may honestly be one of the few true examples. It's obviously frowned upon to some extent or it wouldn't be so rare and a topic of discussion every free agency period. It may be a thing of the past, however recent. It's hard for there to be backlash against a guy who was out of the GM seat one year later. Sure was the public upset over the Vanek sheet? Sure. Was Darcy and many owners? Absolutely. But do they hamper a team's ability to do business? I haven't seen any evidence. The Flyers gave one to Kesler, the Canucks to Backes, the Blues to Bernier (!?!), the Sharks to Hjalmarsson. All these teams seemed to do business just fine last year. I guess I don't see Lowe being out of a job within a year as unrelated to the public lashing he received from Brian Burke--- who was so upset he challenged Lowe to a fight--- as well as the media and other GMs for the Vanek signing. His haphazard way of approaching the offer sheets directly led to becoming neutered--- no one wanted to deal with him. They do business just fine with most other GMs, but how many of those teams did business with each other after they made the offer to the RFA? Do you think theres gonna be no bad blood between the Flyers and Preds front office now and that they will be able to make trades with each other easily now? As in my previous post, I do concede that there's probably a way to go about offer sheeting RFAs that maintains amicable relationships, however uneasy the tensions. But there are plenty of examples where it has been frowned upon. Bobby Clarke ruffled quite a few feathers with the Kesler offer sheet, but the contract was minor as Kelser was still a bit of an unknown. The Canes signing Federov was considered a shot across the bow between two GMs that already despised one another. The wrong way to handle offer sheets: Darcy told Lowe the Sabres would match any offer sheet, and Lowe should have backed off--- when he didn't and signed Vanek to an outrageous contract, that is what stirred everyone up. I don't necessarily agree that it should be this way, but that is exactly how it has played out in public. It doesn't have to lead to teams refusing to do business ever again, but some relationships have been permanently severed--- then again even Lowe and Burke have mended fences. David Poile had a Regier type off-season. A top player in Suter walked away with Nashville receiving zero compensation (Drury, Briere) and he allowed another team to negotiate a contract for his top RFA (ala Vanek). If there is any "backlash" , David Poile deserves to take the brunt of it like Regier did when he screwed up. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Was the public upset over the Vanek sheet? Sure. Was Darcy and many owners? Absolutely. But do they hamper a team's ability to do business? I haven't seen any evidence. The Flyers gave one to Kesler, the Canucks to Backes, the Blues to Bernier (!?!), the Sharks to Hjalmarsson. All these teams seemed to do business just fine last year. The Bernier deal was a response to Vancouver trying to poach Backes. It was only a one year deal but was for the same exact term that Backes got from Vancouver. So there's your first example of there being backlash to these kind of signings. It was an obvious, "you're going to raise our payroll? ok, we'll raise yours too". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 David Poile had a Regier type off-season. A top player in Suter walked away with Nashville receiving zero compensation (Drury, Briere) and he allowed another team to negotiate a contract for his top RFA (ala Vanek). If there is any "backlash" , David Poile deserves to take the brunt of it like Regier did when he screwed up. Yeah, Poile really blew this one. I think I posted before (maybe not) that Poile has been doing exactly what Darcy did in the mid-2000's. All short-term contracts, lots of UFAs and RFAs each year. He got caught this year. And, more than half the team will be free agents next year. Maybe he wants to wait for the new CBA to re-sign guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 The Bernier deal was a response to Vancouver trying to poach Backes. It was only a one year deal but was for the same exact term that Backes got from Vancouver. So there's your first example of there being backlash to these kind of signings. It was an obvious, "you're going to raise our payroll? ok, we'll raise yours too". For sure. I'm just saying the cost isn't necessarily high enough to dismiss making an RFA offer out of hand. None of these deals were successful either, although the Hjalmarsson one definitely hamstrung the Hawks. If the ownership was shaky in Winnipeg, I would use the threat of a sheet to force a trade for Kane, and I would consider having him sign it. If The Flyers got Weber, a true rival would have gone after Voracek hard. There are times when an offer sheet can make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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