korab rules Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Wait, I'm confused. Are we supposed to hate Stafford or not? Only when he's not scoring goals. When he scores, we grudgingly cheer and watch intently for him to make a mistake so we can point out how he still sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I've liked him all along, actually. He could use some help learning to protect the puck along the boards; otherwise he works pretty hard. But when the team was out of sync, he was the epitome of not getting a bounce to go his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I've liked him all along, actually. He could use some help learning to protect the puck along the boards; otherwise he works pretty hard. But when the team was out of sync, he was the epitome of not getting a bounce to go his way. And the moral of the story is: like whoever you want to like. Don't be a sheep like so many others out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I've liked him all along, actually. He could use some help learning to protect the puck along the boards; otherwise he works pretty hard. But when the team was out of sync, he was the epitome of not getting a bounce to go his way. He was shooting at like 4% earlier in the year, mathematically it would be almost impossible for that to last an entire season. And as we see now, he's up to 7.7% (which is still well below his career average). Based upon this, I'd expect his hot streak to continue for the remainder of the season. As far as his work ethic goes, my problem with him has always been his battle (or lack thereof) along the boards for the puck. You say he needs to learn to protect the puck, I say he has to try harder and be more willing to grind it out physically. I never got the impression he didn't know what to do along the wall, only that he didn't have the desire to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I honestly don't think that there would be anyone complaining about not moving Ennis to the "top line" to get Vanek and Pommers going, also they're not even on the same line at this point. You would be wrong. I would not be pleased if Ennis and Stafford are broken up. Sure, Foligno has looked sharp on that line, but Stafford and Ennis have been phenomenal. To break them up right now would be downright moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 And I think Foligno could be a top-6 guy if the Sabres go with the balanced line approach: 1 worker/grit guy to open space and go into the dirty areas, 1 playmaking center, and 1 finisher. I never expect Foligno to develop into a 30 goal sniper or 65 point guy, but if he can get 20 goals and around 50 points, there's no reason he couldn't be considered a top-6 winger when adding in the other things he brings when on the ice. I diagree with your line makeup. Unless the worker/grit guy has some offensive skills, they don't ever belong in the top 6, i.e. Gaustad, Ellis, McCormick, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I diagree with your line makeup. Unless the worker/grit guy has some offensive skills, they don't ever belong in the top 6, i.e. Gaustad, Ellis, McCormick, etc... Right, in my mind there's a happy medium between "talentless grinder" and "elite offensive talent" where a guy has some offensive skill, but also size and determination to hit the dirty areas and knock some bodies around. Foligno *may* have the skillset I'm talking about. In no way, shape, or form do I want a guy like McCormick in the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 As far as his work ethic goes, my problem with him has always been his battle (or lack thereof) along the boards for the puck. You say he needs to learn to protect the puck, I say he has to try harder and be more willing to grind it out physically. I never got the impression he didn't know what to do along the wall, only that he didn't have the desire to do it. Maybe a work ethic thing, but I think the rest of his game is pretty sound. To change the subject a bit, what I love is the way Ennis will just decide to take the puck away from someone, then.... do it. Once he gets it, he stays on it, even when it looks like he lost it. I'm waiting for someone else besides me to acknowledge the comparison to Datsyuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I wonder how those numbers would translate into today's game. They obviously don't score today like they did back then. Where would those numbers fall in the league averages compared to where today's 3rd liner would? That peak season in 85-86 sticks out a bit, but I would be surprised to see some of those others fall more in line with the typical secondary scorers of the day. Yes more goals were scored in the 80's, but Foligno was a very talented offensive player whose game IMO would still translate to 20-30 goals a year and 45-55 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 He was shooting at like 4% earlier in the year, mathematically it would be almost impossible for that to last an entire season. And as we see now, he's up to 7.7% (which is still well below his career average). Based upon this, I'd expect his hot streak to continue for the remainder of the season. As far as his work ethic goes, my problem with him has always been his battle (or lack thereof) along the boards for the puck. You say he needs to learn to protect the puck, I say he has to try harder and be more willing to grind it out physically. I never got the impression he didn't know what to do along the wall, only that he didn't have the desire to do it. Yeah, I still hate Stafford's terrible work ethic and would be happy to see him traded this summer. It's important to note that his resurgence happened when Ennis took over the team and brought his line mates up a level. Stafford didn't turn his season around; Ennis turned it around for him. Without Ennis, my guess is he'd still be muddling along. Remember, this is a guy whose approach to standing up for his teammates comes out to "We have other guys for that." I'll keep saying it, if we're ever good again, it'll be by building around the 2008 draft core -- Ennis, Myers, Hodgson, Adam -- along with some of the other young guys we have from around then (Foligno, McNabb, Tropp, etc.). The post-Black Sunday core should be cleared out. I don't want guys like Roy and Stafford to be seen as the team's elder statesmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yes more goals were scored in the 80's, but Foligno was a very talented offensive player whose game IMO would still translate to 20-30 goals a year and 45-55 points. Most of Mike Foligno's goals were from sticking his (was it really a) nose (?) around the net and mucking in the slot. Give him an 82 game season and I think those numbers hold up pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Most of Mike Foligno's goals were from sticking his (was it really a) nose (?) around the net and mucking in the slot. Give him an 82 game season and I think those numbers hold up pretty well. I was thinking this as well. Wouldn't a player with the skill set matching Mike Foligno, or *mabye* Marcus Foligno, be less prone to long slumps? Finesse players can go cold for long stretches but a guy who's going to skate straight towards the net is probably going to do alright just by being in the right spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Maybe a work ethic thing, but I think the rest of his game is pretty sound. To change the subject a bit, what I love is the way Ennis will just decide to take the puck away from someone, then.... do it. Once he gets it, he stays on it, even when it looks like he lost it. I'm waiting for someone else besides me to acknowledge the comparison to Datsyuk. I don't think work ethic is the problem with Stafford. He is inconsistent for sure, but my main gripe is that he is nonchalant around the puck at times. That often leads to him getting beaten along the boards, or at the blue line. It's infuriating and not something I'm sure he'll ever learn to get rid of in his game, he's been around long enough where he shouldn't make those types of mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I was thinking this as well. Wouldn't a player with the skill set matching Mike Foligno, or *mabye* Marcus Foligno, be less prone to long slumps? Finesse players can go cold for long stretches but a guy who's going to skate straight towards the net is probably going to do alright just by being in the right spot. Was there ever a Sabre with more jam around the net than Mike Foligno? Marcus is even a bigger screen than pops, so he has that going for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Was there ever a Sabre with more jam around the net than Mike Foligno? Marcus is even a bigger screen than pops, so he has that going for him. I think having a dad who was a huge success in the NHL has to a big help for Marcus Foligno as well. Obviously it's a different era, but if Marcus ever needs someone to talk to about adjusting to life in the NHL, he has his dad and his older brother. I would think that'd really help him stay sharp mentally. (All the more valuable since the Sabres have been so mentally fragile these last few years.) NOTE TO THE SABRES: This is why I want you to draft Henrik Samuelsson this June. Make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Drew Stafford sucks. Live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Drew Stafford sucks. Live with it. Stop crushing my dreams. He's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Was there ever a Sabre with more jam around the net than Mike Foligno? Marcus is even a bigger screen than pops, so he has that going for him. If there was, it was Vaive. Would have been nice to have gotten him a bit earlier in the career so we could have had him longer w/ a good / reasonable back. It always amazed me how he was able to transition his game from flying into the zone w/ a booming shot as a kid on the Loafs to a Phil Esposito style garbage man when he lost a step. I wouldn't put Andreychuk quite into that class around the net. And speaking of guys that came to the Sabres' late in their career, Gillies could bring it when he was young in the corners and in front of the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kishoph Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 You would be wrong. I would not be pleased if Ennis and Stafford are broken up. Sure, Foligno has looked sharp on that line, but Stafford and Ennis have been phenomenal. To break them up right now would be downright moronic. That's exactly what I said, that there would be nobody complaining if they are not broken up, maybe I worded it wrong, but I don't think I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 That's exactly what I said, that there would be nobody complaining if they are not broken up, maybe I worded it wrong, but I don't think I did. Yeah, I read it wrong. My mistake. We find ourselves in perfect agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyone Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I sit Sulzer because Weber is part of the future of this team. Weber needs all the games he can get while Regehr is here because I think Weber will take over for him after next season. I must be blind on the issue of Weber but he does a lot of little things right and although the 2 SO losses he did make some mistakes I do not believe that should condemn him. His +/- is so bad because he is up against top lines. He is a solid player. I had to re-read this twice to realize it was sarcastic... rotflmfao I have been dismissing the notion of trading Ennis for months. His speed and stick handling are so profoundly better than almost any other Sabre we would be insane to move this kid. Moving him to center has allowed for 2 important things to occur simultaneously: 1) It allows Ennis the room he needs to use is explosive speed while keeping him away from the walls where his small size is a "mild" hindrance" 2) It allows him more time with the puck meaning he can draw defenders and pass it to an open Stafford or Foligno. As for Stafford and Foligno I think it is amazing what a decent center does for Drew's numbers. Foligno I think has more heart than Kassian ever did and it looks like he is willing to throw his body around. Generally speaking this line is great to watch and for the first time in YEARS I see them out there I think "we are going to score" Not compared to the other defensemen on the team. That is certainly no excuse for Weber's +/-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Not compared to the other defensemen on the team. That is certainly no excuse for Weber's +/-. so i am mistaken in my belief that Regehr and Weber play against other teams top offensive lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 And to think some fans used to say Ennis was another Afinogenov. Patience is a virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyone Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 so i am mistaken in my belief that Regehr and Weber play against other teams top offensive lines? Exclusively, yes. Lindy seems to treat his D pairings fairly equally when it comes to matchups. On a lot of teams you'll see that the top four guys get the majority of the minutes, and the bottom pair guys get significantly less. That isn't the case with the Sabres, though. Interestingly, however, Weber and Regehr get less even strength time than Leopold, Ehrhoff, Myers, and Sekera. That doesn't make sense if they're constantly playing against the top lines. Additionally, Weber and Regehr haven't played together for the whole season, and Weber has a worse +/- in twenty less games than Regehr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Only when he's not scoring goals. When he scores, we grudgingly cheer and watch intently for him to make a mistake so we can point out how he still sucks. I know people who decide to hate a player one year and have done this ever since ( pominville, for example.) drives me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.