Do you know Ruff's System

[spndnchz]

I'd say the system has def. changed even since last year.

 

I'd agree with rbochan it's a puck possession type of system. These guys just can't do it.

 

We need guys like Datsyuk that defenders are afraid of. Our forwards get the puck, they're attacked by the D and cough it up. Opposing players aren't scared of getting beat by us so they just attack and get the puck.

 

FWIW, knowing when to dump it in, or to pass, or to go wide or down the slot type decisions are very poor this year. This could be because the linemates have changed so much vs utter stupidity.

 

i.e. Leino's backpass. You look at the tape of that play. Leino's got a man on him, he sees Stafford coming, goes 5 more yards and drop passes to where Staff should be if Staff knew Leino better. Stafford stops skating at the blueline. IMHO That would have been a beautiful play if executed correctly. Instead we get Leino saying "I never try that again". :censored:

[nobody]

With all of the defensive mistakes the whole team is doing right now I would suggest that Lindy consider chaning to a full trap team. Cut the shots against down to 20 and hope to win 2-1.

 

i.e. Leino's backpass. You look at the tape of that play. Leino's got a man on him, he sees Stafford coming, goes 5 more yards and drop passes to where Staff should be if Staff knew Leino better. Stafford stops skating at the blueline. IMHO That would have been a beautiful play if executed correctly. Instead we get Leino saying "I never try that again". :censored:

 

Stafford doesn't need to know Leino better - he needs to follow Lindy's system better. Stay in his lane and keep moving forward and we would have seen Stafford take a shot that misses the net.

[Weave]

With all of the defensive mistakes the whole team is doing right now I would suggest that Lindy consider chaning to a full trap team. Cut the shots against down to 20 and hope to win 2-1.

 

 

I mentioned in another thread that I am surprised this hasn't already happened.

[LaFontaineToMogilny]

I think Ruff mus be really, really, really hating the trap, or is very way too much in love with his fast puck movement philosophy. We should have become a trapping team 20 games ago, but I don't think Lindy Ruff has ever even entertained the idea.

[MattPie]

Lindy likes his D close to the net and his forwards down in the slot. I'm assuming it is a calculated gamble that the goalie is going to stop perimeter shots so slide the forwards down to prevent cross ice passes at faceoff circle range.

 

I think it's kind of a semi-trap, collapse around the goalie idea. You see it more in the playoffs. Part of me wonders if the 'system' is at least in part preparation for the playoffs. Play super-defensive hockey, but more importantly, have everyone play with other lines so when injuries happen there's at least some familarity. That might be a stretch, though.

[Bmwolf21]

Stafford doesn't need to know Leino better - he needs to follow Lindy's system better. Stay in his lane and keep moving forward and we would have seen Stafford take a shot that misses the net.

 

Whatever happened to the days where boneheaded play would earn you a seat in the press box?

[nobody]

Thinking about it a bit more - the trap really requires each and every player on the ice to fully commit to their role and place. Maybe Lindy knows his players couldn't handle it.

[SwampD]

HIs "system" has very definitely changed over time. Heck, it's changed quite a bit over the last few years. Right now he seems to getting away from having the D men carry the puck through the neutral zone and into the opposing zone, which was a mainstay of our attack last year. The year prior Lindy used to use alot of drop back passes at the opposing blue line to gain entry. This year the breakouts seem to entail alot of cross ice passes in our zone to a winger in stride.

 

What hasn't been a part of Lindy's system in a long, long time is dump and chase. At least, if it is part of his system the players seem loathe to do it because only the energy line guys seem to use much dump and chase.

 

The defensive zone coverage seems to be pretty constant though. Lindy likes his D close to the net and his forwards down in the slot. I'm assuming it is a calculated gamble that the goalie is going to stop perimeter shots so slide the forwards down to prevent cross ice passes at faceoff circle range.

I think that's just because Myers and Sekera have been injured. Add a spinorama and either one is playing the part of Campbell.

 

With all these arguments, I still haven't changed my mind. We still give up just as many odd man rushes because of the system as we did during the '05-'07 seasons. The only difference is that Miller isn't stopping them anymore.

[Ross Rhea]

I have only been a Sabres fan since Drury arrived, so I don't really know what they were trying to do before that. Since then I noticed a shift in how the D plays.

1. The D to D passing has shifted from in front of the goal line to behind.

2. The D instead of bringing the puck up or passing to the center are looking for a home run pass if not chipping the puck up the boards.

3. Instead of being in a good position, are collapsing and playing as secondary goaltenders and not playing the man or the puck.

4. Letting the opponent get to the puck first and then trying to pry it away.

5. Instead of having the D stay a the blue line and pinch pucks or wait for one-timers they are rushing in and roaming the offensive zone.

 

I believe other than last year the talent level on the blueline has been pretty much the same, I just think the coaching has changed.

 

 

man, who would have thought brian mccutchens departure would have had such a negative impact :bag:

[Formerly Allan in MD]

There appears to be no system. If there is, the players obviously don't know what it is. However, it is doable.

 

Let's start with a system where you don't continually turn the puck over in your own end, don't stand around looking lost in your own end when the other team has the puck, block shots if you're a defenseman, hit someone, effectively forecheck like it means something, screen opposition goalies, don't let the other team score when you're on the power play, and play hard for 60 minutes.

[Who Else?]

man, who would have thought brian mccutchens departure would have had such a negative impact :bag:

 

I'm guessing this is sarcastic, but maybe it is right on point. From what I see of Adams I really don't like him. When they interview him he makes comments of a player not an insightful bistandard.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I'd say the system has def. changed even since last year.

 

I'd agree with rbochan it's a puck possession type of system. These guys just can't do it.

 

We need guys like Datsyuk that defenders are afraid of. Our forwards get the puck, they're attacked by the D and cough it up. Opposing players aren't scared of getting beat by us so they just attack and get the puck.

 

FWIW, knowing when to dump it in, or to pass, or to go wide or down the slot type decisions are very poor this year. This could be because the linemates have changed so much vs utter stupidity.

 

i.e. Leino's backpass. You look at the tape of that play. Leino's got a man on him, he sees Stafford coming, goes 5 more yards and drop passes to where Staff should be if Staff knew Leino better. Stafford stops skating at the blueline. IMHO That would have been a beautiful play if executed correctly. Instead we get Leino saying "I never try that again". :censored:

 

I agree.

 

And I think that Leino's mishap is just as much Staff's fault as his. Too many players on this team stop moving their feet and just appear to glide.

[TheChimp]

there are X and O posters on this board -- i'm not really one of them.

 

the two elements i have picked up on:

 

the system relies on the defensemen joining the rush and, to a lesser degree, pinching in order to generate offense. from what i hear, that part of the system was in stark relief last night when leino's back-pass went the other way for a breakaway.

 

the system also dictates, IMO, that players should adhere to positional play to the detriment of playing a physical or punishing or intimidating brand of hockey. lindy's system not only discourages "running around" looking for hits, it also, IMO, discourages players from finishing their checks, lest they be caught out of position.

Yup.

 

Not like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EWBiMPvevo&feature=related

 

(1:03 - 3:15)

[RazielSabre]

^{The System: Dump the puck deep, work the boards until you see a pinching defense guy on the point (or man in front of the net) open, and make a play.}

^{The Reality: Dump the puck deep (if you can get past the blue line with those fancy between the leg moves), get blown off the puck by strong opponent checking, lose the puck, pinching d-men get beat, leading to odd man rushes back the other way, and hope to hell that Miller or Enroth save the day (and this year, they aren't).}

^{The System on the PP (plan and reality): Should we dump the puck deep? What did Lindy say again, oh, yeah, those d-guys have to pinch. Let's just work the points and see what happens. Pass it to the guy with the hot hand (Vanek or Pomers b/c there aren't any others). Woops, lost it again... there goes the short handed break away. :censored:}

 

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: Oh thats legend.

 

Yup.

 

Not like this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EWBiMPvevo&feature=related

 

(1:03 - 3:15)

 

Seriously, get his number and go on a date, 3 threads and counting!

[LTS]

I'd say the system has def. changed even since last year. I'd agree with rbochan it's a puck possession type of system. These guys just can't do it. We need guys like Datsyuk that defenders are afraid of. Our forwards get the puck, they're attacked by the D and cough it up. Opposing players aren't scared of getting beat by us so they just attack and get the puck. FWIW, knowing when to dump it in, or to pass, or to go wide or down the slot type decisions are very poor this year. This could be because the linemates have changed so much vs utter stupidity. i.e. Leino's backpass. You look at the tape of that play. Leino's got a man on him, he sees Stafford coming, goes 5 more yards and drop passes to where Staff should be if Staff knew Leino better. Stafford stops skating at the blueline. IMHO That would have been a beautiful play if executed correctly. Instead we get Leino saying "I never try that again". :censored:

 

A few years ago it was discussed how Lindy had begun to borrow from the Red Wings style of play. This was in part because he spent time as an assistant on Team Canada to Mike Babcock. So the design of the system was to flow as a 5 man unit up and down the ice. The emphasis was on quick, short passes to move the puck.

 

In order to do that you need to have guys play together (the Sabres haven't had that). You need to have good passes (the are not sharp there, as Hamilton indicated this morning too). You need to receive a pass (I don't recall ever seeing a team have more pucks bounce off sticks than the Sabres this year). You need to skate (right now the D are playing a pass to a winger who has his back to the ice and is covered before the pass gets there).

 

In short, the system is there, you can see the players attempting to play it but they are failing miserably. This was what Pominville referred to a few weeks ago. It's the mental mistakes and the lack of effort right now. The biggest question is why none of the Sabres appear to care about playing hockey anymore. I don't care what system you put in place, if the team doesn't care then you won't win. We can speculate it's the coach or locker room malcontents or the GM or anything but we don't REALLY know. We will get an idea of what is up when moves are made but until then it's speculation.

 

Every comment from every player is that it comes from within. That only indicates to me that there is a locker room issue and they aren't willing to single out where the problem is... yet.

[Marvelo]

from Eliot Friedman's latest:

 

Asked a few Western-based players about what's making the Blues so tough. Very similar answer from several players: "They are always in the right position."

 

Interesting. New coach, new system...

 

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/01/the-penguins-plight-crosbys-recovery-30-thoughts.html

[rbochan]

The System: What it is and why it’s Failed

 

 

"Over the past few years, any time the Sabres have put together a clunker on par with any of the first three games of their current road trip, the team’s responses to fans and media have always centered on a familiar buzz-word, “the system.” Losses are blamed on straying from it; and returning to its structure is on par with “going to the dirty areas” and “getting pucks to the net” as cliched press conference phrases on how to get the team back on track. But what exactly is the system that Lindy Ruff has touted for the past two and a half seasons?.."

 

http://sabresfans.com/2012/01/20/the-system-what-it-is-and-why-its-failed/

[Wyldnwoody44]

Idk if its been discussed, but all season I see the sabres gain the blue line and then pass wide out to the winger. This puts the shooter at an awful angle for a shot. Idk if this is because we have no center talent or what, but we don't generate traffic in front of the net, basically we need more guys willing to get in front of the net a la zetterberg, just my two cents

[Who Else?]

I have only been a Sabres fan since Drury arrived, so I don't really know what they were trying to do before that. Since then I noticed a shift in how the D plays.

1. The D to D passing has shifted from in front of the goal line to behind.

2. The D instead of bringing the puck up or passing to the center are looking for a home run pass if not chipping the puck up the boards.

3. Instead of being in a good position, are collapsing and playing as secondary goaltenders and not playing the man or the puck.

4. Letting the opponent get to the puck first and then trying to pry it away.

5. Instead of having the D stay a the blue line and pinch pucks or wait for one-timers they are rushing in and roaming the offensive zone.

 

I believe other than last year the talent level on the blueline has been pretty much the same, I just think the coaching has changed.

 

Here's what i see with the forwards, Other than total chaos.

 

1. All passes go up the boards meaning no cross ice passes above the opposition face off dots.

2. Chip the puck in the corner, get it, then chip it out front.

3. Don't worry about good (or any) passes in front of net, just get it there and a crashing forward positioned at the faceoff dot should be there to put it in.

4. Do not pass the puck back to the point. If it gets there so be it.

5. Control time on ice with non challenged chip ins and dumps.

[kishoph]

Lindy's system ? Score 1 goal and hope your Goalie stands on his head, or is that his dream team.

Whatever it is, the players are not buying into it.

[TheMatrix31]

This thread has been crazy informative for me, since I don't have years of experience analyzing hockey systems and such.

 

When I started watching the team a couple years ago, I noticed we were attacking a bit more. Now I feel like we've been stuck in a "half court offense", especially this year, to borrow a term from basketball which I'm more comfortable analyzing the X's and O's of.

 

Seems like we just dont have the personnel to run a slow down offense, and that we should try to take advantage of missed offensive opportunities by the opposition and have a counter-attack, fast break team. Instead, we get stuck and we just don't know what to do, and we "heave up" a prayer from the blue line. Now, I don't know, maybe it's easier said than done, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I don't think an offense that relies on deflections as the main way to score is going be successful at all.

 

Not sure if this is feasible, or even an accurate analysis of what's happening. Our guys seem to be way more finesse than powerful. We obviously don't have that overpowering edge, but I don't know if "finesse" is the right word either. Just seems like we're mismatched in most every phase of the game.

 

Kinda feel like we're trying to do something that's impossible to do. Round peg in a square hole, or whatever.

[North Buffalo]

I'd say the system has def. changed even since last year. I'd agree with rbochan it's a puck possession type of system. These guys just can't do it. We need guys like Datsyuk that defenders are afraid of. Our forwards get the puck, they're attacked by the D and cough it up. Opposing players aren't scared of getting beat by us so they just attack and get the puck. FWIW, knowing when to dump it in, or to pass, or to go wide or down the slot type decisions are very poor this year. This could be because the linemates have changed so much vs utter stupidity. i.e. Leino's backpass. You look at the tape of that play. Leino's got a man on him, he sees Stafford coming, goes 5 more yards and drop passes to where Staff should be if Staff knew Leino better. Stafford stops skating at the blueline. IMHO That would have been a beautiful play if executed correctly. Instead we get Leino saying "I never try that again". :censored:

 

 

Agreed with this assessment including Stafford and Leino to an extent were suppose to be able to carry the puck up the ice as well. Leino tries and so does Roy, but no one follows them because they hang on to the puck too long. Stafford once again is just lazy, avoid hits unless it suits him and can't or won't carry the puck up the ice. Ennis can and does do that part but because of his size, his work in the corner is an issue. Brad Richards would have been a great addition and the Sabres need at least two of that skill level.

 

The system is 5 man game and everyone is suppose to be able to rotate to cover each others position when one of them sees and opportunity. The problem is a lot of the forwards don't get it or are not big enough or good enough on D to pull it off and generally don't get back or often I see two of them chasing the puck instead of one backing off and covering another guy. Detroit is suppose to be the system, it is a disciplined system, but the team is not.

 

This team leaves to many open guys. It is a a switching man to man defense they are trying to play but just don't get it because they are a zone defense team, they don't communicate, don't hustle back and don't cover each other when someone makes a mistake. Kinda like the KNICKS defense in basketball, though it appears they have the horses to play defense, they can't or won't.

 

P.S. Not LeCalvier... he has caught the Stafford disease as well.

[ROC Sabres]

Someone posted this a while ago and I think it holds true to this thread.

 

[kballhog]

We have the squirrelly types, like Gerbe, Ennis, even Leino and Boyes. Stafford, for what it's worth, can still beat a D man with skill and get around them. These guys can use their "skill" and speed to bring the puck in, maybe make a pass like they're fond of doing, and take the shot. Roy used to have this skill, maybe still does, but he's been getting picked A LOT lately and I think whatever little he had in his heart for the game is gone right now.

 

Adam, Hecht, McCormick and someone like Kassian can crash the net. They're big boys and can get dirty in there. Obviously, Vanek and Pominville are able to get to the net regardless of the system.

 

The D stays on point unless they see the defending team collapsing and can choose the right moment to jump in otherwise, not unlike they do now.

 

It would almost be worth it with this team to change the offensive system based on the lines. That would, of course, mean that the lines would need to remain somewhat stable. Because Pominville and Vanek seem to do okay with the current system. It would be an interesting strategy to INTENTIONALLY keep altering the system during the game.

 

I like this idea Sizzle! Too bad Lindy won't do it.

[rbochan]