Do you know Ruff's System

[Who Else?]

On a totally objective level, because we all know the "system" is not working right now. If you were a coach on another team, how would you explain Ruff's system?

 

With everyone firing shots at the "system", I am curious to see what a few of you think the key componants are.

[FolignosJock]

Not scoring, horrible giveaways, defensive lapses, poor goaltending, lots of injuries, and posters inability to use the search function

[That Aud Smell]

there are X and O posters on this board -- i'm not really one of them.

 

the two elements i have picked up on:

 

the system relies on the defensemen joining the rush and, to a lesser degree, pinching in order to generate offense. from what i hear, that part of the system was in stark relief last night when leino's back-pass went the other way for a breakaway.

 

the system also dictates, IMO, that players should adhere to positional play to the detriment of playing a physical or punishing or intimidating brand of hockey. lindy's system not only discourages "running around" looking for hits, it also, IMO, discourages players from finishing their checks, lest they be caught out of position.

[bunomatic]

Boring. Thats Lindys system but lets be honest. This team is full of underachievers and soft and or smallish type players with little or no heart or drive. Also very low on grit or 'git her done'. A system that is made specifically for this assemblage of players will not work against teams with any of the ingredients I just listed that the sabres are missing.

[SwampD]

there are X and O posters on this board -- i'm not really one of them.

 

the two elements i have picked up on:

 

the system relies on the defensemen joining the rush and, to a lesser degree, pinching in order to generate offense. from what i hear, that part of the system was in stark relief last night when leino's back-pass went the other way for a breakaway.

 

the system also dictates, IMO, that players should adhere to positional play to the detriment of playing a physical or punishing or intimidating brand of hockey. lindy's system not only discourages "running around" looking for hits, it also, IMO, discourages players from finishing their checks, lest they be caught out of position.

Yep. It seems like it is more about putting guys in lanes (passing and shooting) than it is about putting guys on guys. The problem I have with that is eventually you have to hit someone to make the play and it seems our players are often confused when that moment is.

[carpandean]

Any explanation would sound wrong right now, because the team is not playing it successfully. One defining characteristic is the active D. He wants his Dmen to jump into the play, which means that the forwards have to be constantly aware of them, so they can drop back to cover. This is a hard system to defend, but if the forwards don't cover effectively, it's an easy system to exploit. If you see four players down low, you know that a forward did not do his job.

[Patty16]

there are X and O posters on this board -- i'm not really one of them.

 

the two elements i have picked up on:

 

the system relies on the defensemen joining the rush and, to a lesser degree, pinching in order to generate offense. from what i hear, that part of the system was in stark relief last night when leino's back-pass went the other way for a breakaway.

 

the system also dictates, IMO, that players should adhere to positional play to the detriment of playing a physical or punishing or intimidating brand of hockey. lindy's system not only discourages "running around" looking for hits, it also, IMO, discourages players from finishing their checks, lest they be caught out of position.

 

Good analysis but the bolded part is true for any system. Bc if permitted running around there would be no positioning and thus no system.

 

 

I mentioned on another thread, Lindy isnt running the same "system" he has been since he arrived in Buffalo, its been overhauled a few times. There's a reason he is well respected and its not because he has one system. I think we are overemphasizing the system aspect

[carpandean]

I mentioned on another thread, Lindy isnt running the same "system" he has been since he arrived in Buffalo, its been overhauled a few times. There's a reason he is well respected and its not because he has one system. I think we are overemphasizing the system aspect.

 

Very true. I, too, have pointed that out in the past. The question should be "what is Lindy's current sytem?"

[SwampD]

Good analysis but the bolded part is true for any system. Bc if permitted running around there would be no positioning and thus no system.

 

 

I mentioned on another thread, Lindy isnt running the same "system" he has been since he arrived in Buffalo, its been overhauled a few times. There's a reason he is well respected and its not because he has one system. I think we are overemphasizing the system aspect

Is this really true, because I really don't see that much of a difference. The wingers still play too deep leaving the points uncovered and its just as easily disrupted by a strong forcheck as it ever has been.

[FolignosJock]

Good analysis but the bolded part is true for any system. Bc if permitted running around there would be no positioning and thus no system.

 

 

I mentioned on another thread, Lindy isnt running the same "system" he has been since he arrived in Buffalo, its been overhauled a few times. There's a reason he is well respected and its not because he has one system. I think we are overemphasizing the system aspect

 

 

Thats what i was referencing someone posted the link to sabresedge where they detailed the changes in his system over the years

[Who Else?]

I have only been a Sabres fan since Drury arrived, so I don't really know what they were trying to do before that. Since then I noticed a shift in how the D plays.

1. The D to D passing has shifted from in front of the goal line to behind.

2. The D instead of bringing the puck up or passing to the center are looking for a home run pass if not chipping the puck up the boards.

3. Instead of being in a good position, are collapsing and playing as secondary goaltenders and not playing the man or the puck.

4. Letting the opponent get to the puck first and then trying to pry it away.

5. Instead of having the D stay a the blue line and pinch pucks or wait for one-timers they are rushing in and roaming the offensive zone.

 

I believe other than last year the talent level on the blueline has been pretty much the same, I just think the coaching has changed.

[That Aud Smell]

Yep. It seems like it is more about putting guys in lanes (passing and shooting) than it is about putting guys on guys. The problem I have with that is eventually you have to hit someone to make the play and it seems our players are often confused when that moment is.

 

i think this is true. one thing that has become a hallmark of our team (and has been since at least the lockout): other teams are generally able to feel some level of comfort or safety when playing against us. there's no (or little) fear. there's no (or very little) head-swiveling. what was the crack that the then-ott'wa coach (mctavish?) made about how his senators could hang with the sabres because the sabres were the only team in the league softer than his squad?

 

in response to this kind of questioning, lindy talked about how being "physical" in this league now means to be strong on the puck and to win a large majority of the battles for puck possession. i'm not so sure.

[papazoid]

SYSTEM: take a soft pansy that darcy provides and force them to be something they are not.

[TheMadCap]

You read my mind! I was about to post this same question last night.

[Bmwolf21]

Is this really true, because I really don't see that much of a difference. The wingers still play too deep leaving the points uncovered and its just as easily disrupted by a strong forcheck as it ever has been.

 

Definitely true. I think his "system" has evolved from when they played in front of Dom to the post-lockout, all-attack mode, to this current middling system that fails because it either doesn't properly match the talent (either mentally or physically) or because teams have figured out how to counter his defensive zone coverage by overloading areas and forcing defenders to make choices on who to defend or where to cover.

[Claude_Verret]

Accepting punishment instead of dishing it out.

[LabattBlue]

I don't think anyone can really tell what the system is. From game to game, shift to shift, things always look different. The only way to know is for Lindy to tell us.

[Bmwolf21]

I don't think anyone can really tell what the system is. From game to game, shift to shift, things always look different. The only way to know is for Lindy to tell us.

 

Sort of like the IT guys at my office. Set up stuff in such a way that only they can fix it = job security.

[cgang]

^{The System: Dump the puck deep, work the boards until you see a pinching defense guy on the point (or man in front of the net) open, and make a play.}

^{The Reality: Dump the puck deep (if you can get past the blue line with those fancy between the leg moves), get blown off the puck by strong opponent checking, lose the puck, pinching d-men get beat, leading to odd man rushes back the other way, and hope to hell that Miller or Enroth save the day (and this year, they aren't).}

^{The System on the PP (plan and reality): Should we dump the puck deep? What did Lindy say again, oh, yeah, those d-guys have to pinch. Let's just work the points and see what happens. Pass it to the guy with the hot hand (Vanek or Pomers b/c there aren't any others). Woops, lost it again... there goes the short handed break away. :censored:}

 

 

[...]

He wants his Dmen to jump into the play, which means that the forwards have to be constantly aware of them, so they can drop back to cover. This is a hard system to defend, but if the forwards don't cover effectively, it's an easy system to exploit. If you see four players down low, you know that a forward did not do his job.

 

And one of the reasons why they shoot a lot from the wings and don't have a lot of presence in the slot of in front of the enemy goalie, because they have to make it back to the neutral zone to try and defend.

 

Which, to me, is a double-edged sword. If they take a shot from deep on the sides, obviously looking to take advantage of the deflection, they're more inclined to lose possession after the shot and have to hurry back to defend. This aspect of the system is what needs to change offensively. The players on this team simply can't handle the battle to get in position to be ready for the deflection.

 

They'd be better off with Pittsburgh's or Philly's system where they have two men coming straight in on the edges of the slot (in other words, closer to the middle than Lindy's system where they're nearer to the boards) with a trailer looking for the garbage. At least this way you have two men right there in front of the goalie where they need to be. And this is the system the offensive "talent" of the Sabres would clearly prefer to play because this is what they're doing when Lindy (or Hamilton) complains that they weren't playing the system.

[Carmel Corn]

A few things come to my mind:

 

1. Defensemen pinching/joining - already mentioned

2. Dump & chase - unfortunately they often fail to get it deep and lack the right kind of forwards to go in hard (physically) to hit and retrieve

3. Perimeter play - too much of the passing in the offensive zone is on the outside, cycling, board work trying to keep puck possession..again they lack the right kind of aggressive diggers to make it work. Playing your game along the boards all the time does not lend itself to good puck movement and crisp passes. Include in this no net presence in front to occupy a defensemen and you have an easy team to defend against.

4. Position (supposedly) vs. aggression - sit back, stay in your lanes, don't take yourself out of the play by trying to hit somebody. Other teams have no fear of playing the Sabres because they know they won't finish their checks or get hit.

 

All in all, not a very fun team to watch.

[...]

I like the sound of that, but you have to be willing to compete for the puck and win positional and physical battles to get there and control the rebounds for second chances. We ain't got that type of player or even those who have the will, lack the size, IMO

 

We have the squirrelly types, like Gerbe, Ennis, even Leino and Boyes. Stafford, for what it's worth, can still beat a D man with skill and get around them. These guys can use their "skill" and speed to bring the puck in, maybe make a pass like they're fond of doing, and take the shot. Roy used to have this skill, maybe still does, but he's been getting picked A LOT lately and I think whatever little he had in his heart for the game is gone right now.

 

Adam, Hecht, McCormick and someone like Kassian can crash the net. They're big boys and can get dirty in there. Obviously, Vanek and Pominville are able to get to the net regardless of the system.

 

The D stays on point unless they see the defending team collapsing and can choose the right moment to jump in otherwise, not unlike they do now.

 

It would almost be worth it with this team to change the offensive system based on the lines. That would, of course, mean that the lines would need to remain somewhat stable. Because Pominville and Vanek seem to do okay with the current system. It would be an interesting strategy to INTENTIONALLY keep altering the system during the game.

[fan2456]

A few things come to my mind:

 

1. Defensemen pinching/joining - already mentioned

2. Dump & chase - unfortunately they often fail to get it deep and lack the right kind of forwards to go in hard (physically) to hit and retrieve

3. Perimeter play - too much of the passing in the offensive zone is on the outside, cycling, board work trying to keep puck possession..again they lack the right kind of aggressive diggers to make it work. Playing your game along the boards all the time does not lend itself to good puck movement and crisp passes. Include in this no net presence in front to occupy a defensemen and you have an easy team to defend against.

4. Position (supposedly) vs. aggression - sit back, stay in your lanes, don't take yourself out of the play by trying to hit somebody. Other teams have no fear of playing the Sabres because they know they won't finish their checks or get hit.

 

All in all, not a very fun team to watch.

 

Dump and chase can't be part of the system. These guys try to carry it accross the blue line all the time. The trap kills them. I have lamented that watching them live for several years. As you said, they don't have the players for that. If that's part of what he wants, they have ignored him for years, and he and Darcy are really idiots cuz their forwards can't play that way. More often than not, the only time they dump it in is for a line change and it results in a free release for the opposition.

[rbochan]

I don't know what the hell the system is.

I think he wants to play a puck possession system, but they cannot win puck battles in the corners or maintain possession in the zone. This team is just too small and too weak to play that kind of system. Maybe they should try to play more of a run and gun style. They maybe able to post more than 2 goals in a game then.

[Weave]

HIs "system" has very definitely changed over time. Heck, it's changed quite a bit over the last few years. Right now he seems to getting away from having the D men carry the puck through the neutral zone and into the opposing zone, which was a mainstay of our attack last year. The year prior Lindy used to use alot of drop back passes at the opposing blue line to gain entry. This year the breakouts seem to entail alot of cross ice passes in our zone to a winger in stride.

 

What hasn't been a part of Lindy's system in a long, long time is dump and chase. At least, if it is part of his system the players seem loathe to do it because only the energy line guys seem to use much dump and chase.

 

The defensive zone coverage seems to be pretty constant though. Lindy likes his D close to the net and his forwards down in the slot. I'm assuming it is a calculated gamble that the goalie is going to stop perimeter shots so slide the forwards down to prevent cross ice passes at faceoff circle range.