thesportsbuff Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 I don't think you guys understand what I'm saying. You are arguing with me over something that I see Darcy Regier potentially doing, not necessarily something I am personally advocating. I am foreseeing a situation that could happen with Darcy Regier as the GM. No matter how you look at it, the Sabres have to get under the cap by about $3.5 million. Assume you trade away Morrisonn. That saves $2 million. So, you are still over by $1.5 million. Hence, given that situation, I could very easily see a situation where Boyes gets traded reducing the cap number to about $2.5 million under the cap. If that happens, the Sabres will have 2 available roster spots at $2.5 million, so I could see a situation where they might sign Grier to be a 4th line guy, injury replacement, and professional to help the guys prepare, and add Ellis to the mix and you have a 23 man roster and you have about $1 million left against the cap. Or, you send Ellis down as he is on a two way this year and you get about $1.5 million with a 22 man roster. In the situation that everyone expects which is Kotalik get sent down or traded, the cap savings is $3 million, so the available cap space is about $1.5 million (again if we assume Morrisonn gets traded). So, by eliminating Kotalik and keeping Boyes, the cap flexibility is only $1.5 million with a 21 man roster. If you assume Ellis makes the team, you have a 22 man roster with a little less than $1 million in available cap space. That means you go into the season without a 23 man roster and you make a call-up for the last guy when you need it, which I think is a very reasonable solution, and not outside the realm of possibility. However, this is just my personal speculation (not something that I necessarily advocate), but it just doesn't make sense to me that the Sabres would specifically take Kotalik from Calgary instead of any number of underachieving high priced players on that roster like Stajan, Hagman, Jokinen, etc. unless they genuinely believed he could play for Lindy Ruff. He certainly could be sent down to Rochester (or loaned to a team in the Czech Republic), but I believe Kotalik makes the team and the Sabres trade Boyes. Just a hunch (not something I am advocating or believe is the right thing to do). Wouldn't be shocked if Kotalik made the roster, whether it be because Boyes is traded or because Kotalik simply beats him out in camp. But there is no way they sign Mike Grier. Kotalik has proven he that he can play in Lindy Ruff's system in the past and knows some of the guys. I probably would have taken him over any of those guys you listed as well. Also in reference to your first sentence, I am not arguing, simply stating my opinion.. just like you were. Don't take it personally, I just don't see any point whatsoever in signing Grier. He was awful last year. Ellis is probably less responsible defensively, but other than that is faster, bigger, and more physical than Grier. That's what I want from a fourth line player... not a slow 36 year old veteran who struggled mightily at clearing the puck out of his own zone all season. BUT, that said, if a roster spot is available, I wouldn't be shocked if Kassian earned it. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Am I the only one that kind of wants to see Weber play with Regehr? I think someone like that is who we all have kind of hoped Mike Weber would eventually turn into, what better way to get him going in the right direction than to play with him at even strength? Myers-Ehrhoff Regehr-Weber Leopold-Sekera I'm not really even looking at them in any certain order, because I could see them all getting similar amounts of ice time. Just another look I suppose. I think pairings will change over the course of the season, and I definitely hope Weber gets his fair share of time with Robyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Am I the only one that kind of wants to see Weber play with Regehr? I think someone like that is who we all have kind of hoped Mike Weber would eventually turn into, what better way to get him going in the right direction than to play with him at even strength? Not expecting it but now that you mention it I would sure like to see it, at least now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Lindy commented during the off-season before UFA that the priority was to have a shutdown pairing. I suspect he imagines Myers-Regehr being that pairing. Regehr was Myers favorite NHL'er while he was younger. He mentioned it in a pre-draft interview. I agree with you, and that's interesting about Myers and Regehr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 Vanek Leino Stafford Ennis Roy Gerbe Boyes Hecht/Adams Pomminstein McCormick Gaustad Kaleta/Kassian Reghyr Erhoff Myers Weber/Lepold Sekera Lepold/Weber If Leino works out at center I see him working wonders with vanek and staff 5on5 Something about Roy centering Ennis and Gerbe seems right to me 3rd line is kinda cobbled together with our good but overpaid guys but I think they could be very effective as a 3rd line, I wouldn't be surprised to see Adams make Hecht expendable or the odd forward out. Once Kaleta plays a game or 2 and gets injured it just might be time for Kassian to come in all wrecking ball on the 4th. putting Reghyr and Erhoff together as the top pair gives us a solid pairing and should help Myers alot Myers I would like to see paired with Weber to give us a very tough top 4 but if he stumbles or Lepold excels I can see Lepold working good with Myers againest lesser talent Sekera is either gonna excel on the 3rd pairing or lose his spot to MAG fairly quickly, His best bet is having Weber with him but I think Lepold is gonna be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It took me longer to read this thread than any of these proposed lines will play together. Remember who is still behind the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It took me longer to read this thread than any of these proposed lines will play together. Remember who is still behind the bench. I think the real story is ALL these lines will probably play throughout the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 I think the real story is ALL these lines will probably play throughout the year. Very true. The Sabres were a good 5 on 5 team last season. They were 6th in the NHL in 5 on 5 goals and 11th in 5 on 5 goals against. Percentage wise about 68.75% of their offense came 5 on 5 and 63.6% of their goals against came 5 on 5. If they can maintain their level of 5 on 5 play while improving their PP and PK they will be in really good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It took me longer to read this thread than any of these proposed lines will play together. Remember who is still behind the bench. :thumbsup: Now we need the thread for what are the lines to start the 2nd period to start the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Vanek Leino Pominville Ennis Roy Stafford Gerbe Hecht Boyes McCormick Gaustad Kaleta Regehr Myers Sekera Erhoff Leopold Weber I have Pommer penciled in for the top line. He always finds a way to get his points. With a player like leino who can hang onto the puck, I think we see Pommer and Vaneks numbersgo up. Stafford and Ennis have shown me they work well together, and ennis played with Roy quite a bit before he was hurt. This line could have some insane chemistry moving forward. Gerbe and Boyes looked solid together while boyes was playing wing. I noticed that boyes has a tendency to go to the net and pick up rebounds, and he's pretty proficient at it. Give him a summer to get up to speed with the sabres system and i think he'd benefit a lot from any slapshots that gerbe would send the opposing goalies way. The fourth line speaks for itself. I'd set our forwards up the exact same way. On defense I might swap Weber and Sekera to give us a more even mix of putting a puck moving defenseman with a stay at home type but other than that this is the way I'd set things up initially and hope some chemistry builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Based on a logjam of players I've never been crazy about, I've interpolated a trade for Jarrett Stoll. Here are my combos: Leino - Stafford - Ennis Vanek - Roy - Pominville Gerbe - STOLL - Boyes Kassian-Adam-Foligno Reserves: Kaleta, Kotalik etc. Traded/Released: Hecht, Gaustad,McCormick, Myers-Regehr Ehrhoff-Weber MAG-Sekera Reserves: Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Traded/Released: Unless you mean that they're sent to Rochester, then you'll have to re-write the CBA to "release" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 However, this is just my personal speculation (not something that I necessarily advocate), but it just doesn't make sense to me that the Sabres would specifically take Kotalik from Calgary instead of any number of underachieving high priced players on that roster like Stajan, Hagman, Jokinen, etc. unless they genuinely believed he could play for Lindy Ruff. He certainly could be sent down to Rochester (or loaned to a team in the Czech Republic), but I believe Kotalik makes the team and the Sabres trade Boyes. Just a hunch (not something I am advocating or believe is the right thing to do). I just wanted to comment on this alone, It is very possible if not probable that the other players you mentioned on calgary are valued and wanted by the coaches and manager there and kotalik was a straight slaray dump that they simply didnt want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 After that massive post about how good MAG is only 2/3 of these lineups have him actually in the active D LOL. Sorry I find that so freekin' amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Based on a logjam of players I've never been crazy about, I've interpolated a trade for Jarrett Stoll. Here are my combos: Leino - Stafford - Ennis Vanek - Roy - Pominville Gerbe - STOLL - Boyes Kassian-Adam-Foligno Reserves: Kaleta, Kotalik etc. Traded/Released: Hecht, Gaustad,McCormick, Myers-Regehr Ehrhoff-Weber MAG-Sekera Reserves: Leopold Well, you are free to post what you'd like to see, but if we're discussing what is likely to occur, there are quite a few items here that are not realistic: -trading Gaustad (who was their best forward in the playoffs last year) -trading McCormick (who just signed an extension) -healthy-scratching Leopold (who led them in ice time last year) -3 rookie forwards in the lineup, each of whom is ahead of Kaleta in the rotation After that massive post about how good MAG is only 2/3 of these lineups have him actually in the active D LOL. Sorry I find that so freekin' amusing. Well, I think it's fair to have high hopes for MAG while at the same time recognizing that he most likely will be the #7 defenseman this year (unless they trade Sekera or Leopold, which I think is pretty unlikely). I'd be curious whether anyone with good CBA knowledge can confirm the statement that I've seen here a few times that MAG will become a UFA after this season unless he dresses for 55 games or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Well, you are free to post what you'd like to see, but if we're discussing what is likely to occur, there are quite a few items here that are not realistic: -trading Gaustad (who was their best forward in the playoffs last year) -trading McCormick (who just signed an extension) -healthy-scratching Leopold (who led them in ice time last year) -3 rookie forwards in the lineup, each of whom is ahead of Kaleta in the rotation Well, I think it's fair to have high hopes for MAG while at the same time recognizing that he most likely will be the #7 defenseman this year (unless they trade Sekera or Leopold, which I think is pretty unlikely). I'd be curious whether anyone with good CBA knowledge can confirm the statement that I've seen here a few times that MAG will become a UFA after this season unless he dresses for 55 games or so. And all on the ice at the same time. It would be open season on Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I'd be curious whether anyone with good CBA knowledge can confirm the statement that I've seen here a few times that MAG will become a UFA after this season unless he dresses for 55 games or so. You must be thinking of Ennis. After he plays 55 games he's no longer waiver exempt. RFA games played only matters to count a season of professional experience. 11 or more games and it counts as a year. Grags is still RFA after this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Vanek - Roy - Stafford Ennis - Leino - Pommers Gerbe - Hecht - Boyes Mckormick - Goose - Kaleta Myers - Regehr Ehrhoff - Sekera Leo - Weber -MAG This is the most probable starting lineup but I expect Ruff will change it several times and I expect at least 1 sabre to suck this season meaning a call up will occur. Kotalik doesnt make the cut. I think gerbe and boyes showed good chemistry and hecht is a serviceable 3rd line center who is responsible defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Well, you are free to post what you'd like to see, but if we're discussing what is likely to occur, there are quite a few items here that are not realistic: -trading Gaustad (who was their best forward in the playoffs last year) -trading McCormick (who just signed an extension) -healthy-scratching Leopold (who led them in ice time last year) -3 rookie forwards in the lineup, each of whom is ahead of Kaleta in the rotation Well, I think it's fair to have high hopes for MAG while at the same time recognizing that he most likely will be the #7 defenseman this year (unless they trade Sekera or Leopold, which I think is pretty unlikely). I'd be curious whether anyone with good CBA knowledge can confirm the statement that I've seen here a few times that MAG will become a UFA after this season unless he dresses for 55 games or so. I must admit, I'm not familiar with the CBA or any other of those money-shuffling arrangements. This is the lineup I'd like to see. I've seen enough(!) of Gaustad to know he hasn't scored in 30 playoff games. And I'm not sure he was the best forward in last year's playoffs. McCormick is as interchangeable (Begin, Reinprecht etc. ) as they come. There should be no attachment there. Leopold is a numbers victim. MAG is more of a weapon. I might sit Sekera for Leopold once in awhile if he starts getting too many braincramps. ...IMO this happens to be the best Sabres defense ever...and yes, I'd put in 3 rooks over Kaleta, who I'd insert every now and then for some juice. You put him in regularly and he gets hurt again, it's inevitable. I'd be excited to see the 4th line of these rookie head-bangers, a "Kid" line. I'm not afraid to start some of these kids right away. So if it was in my power, that would be my lineup. And you know what, I think this lineup would kick azz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I must admit, I'm not familiar with the CBA or any other of those money-shuffling arrangements. This is the lineup I'd like to see. I've seen enough(!) of Gaustad to know he hasn't scored in 30 playoff games. And I'm not sure he was the best forward in last year's playoffs. McCormick is as interchangeable (Begin, Reinprecht etc. ) as they come. There should be no attachment there. Leopold is a numbers victim. MAG is more of a weapon. I might sit Sekera for Leopold once in awhile if he starts getting too many braincramps. ...IMO this happens to be the best Sabres defense ever...and yes, I'd put in 3 rooks over Kaleta, who I'd insert every now and then for some juice. You put him in regularly and he gets hurt again, it's inevitable. I'd be excited to see the 4th line of these rookie head-bangers, a "Kid" line. I'm not afraid to start some of these kids right away. So if it was in my power, that would be my lineup. And you know what, I think this lineup would kick azz. Give the kids some time in the AHL. Kassian is a physical player who hasn't even played a game in the AHL. Let him get used to playing against the bigger AHL bodies before we bring him up to the big league. The only possibly NHL ready player we have right now in my opinion, is Luke Adam. I wouldn't mind seeing Adam as the fourth line center every now and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5th line wingnutt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 The first key to guessing line combinations and defense pairings is to guess the roster. As always, the CBA, especially the salary cap is important. The Sabres (Darcy) have said they want to start the season $1 or $2 million under the cap. If you start with CapGeek's numbers and roster, which does not include MAG, and assume Kotalik, Morrisonn, and Ellis will be traded or sent down, with no salary coming back... the Sabres would start the season with 20 players and $2,004,643 in cap space. You then have: Goal Miller Enroth Forwards LW: Vanek, Gerbe, McCormick LW/C:Hecht, Ennis, Leino C: Roy, Gaustad RW: Pominville, Stafford, Kaleta RW/C: Boyes Defense Leopold Myers Sekera Regehr Weber Erhoff --------- Line combos and defense pairings depend on chemistry, and ... Line combos depend on having a LW/C/RW on every line, and having 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line, and 1 energy/disturber line. Defense pairings depend on who shoots left/right, who prefers left/right side, and rushing/stay-at-home. --------- And BTW try to keep in mind how special teams impact all of this... --------- So far, LGR4GM makes the most sense to me... but preseason is for sorting this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I did not have time earlier to go into detail on the subject but would like to now for the forwards only, as I believe that the defense is very difficult to predict: Vanek - Roy - Stafford This line is the most interesting forward line of all. Can Roy be a number one center? I think so. Will Stafford suck or live up to his contract? I have no idea, and will vanek retain the form that made him included in the talk for captain? I think Vanek has arrived and with that you will get good play from stafford and great play from roy. This line has the tools to be very powerful and skilled... Stafford and Vanek have enough size to be able to work and Roy was our best player to start last season and Roy is going to be very good this season. All and all this line has good amounts of passing, talent, scoring and may only lack some defense but thats ok. I think if stafford is willing to do the dirty work and go down low then this line has the potential to be scary good. Ennis - Leino - Pommers This line is somewhat intriguing as there seems to be alot of questions surrounding Leino and him playing center. I think I have seen other lineups that have him as a winger. I think that Ruff and Regier have been around long enough to know if Leino can play center and honestly as long as he produces about 50pts and plays more than 70 games he is a step up from TC. Likewise I have read a good deal about how Ennis will have his sophmore slump and he will probably top out around 55-60pts, this I disagree with and I see Ennis getting around 70pts and yes I know that that is very bold and perhaps unrealistic but that is what I feel. Ennis is the key to this line, not leino. As for Pominville, I have no reason to believe he will not have a 65pt season and help secure this line defensively. I think realisticly Ennis may open up some space for Leino and my concern with this line is will they be physical enough? I think leino, pommers and ennis should hold their own pretty well. Gerbe - Hecht - Boyes I actually like this line. Gerbe should continue to be a sparkplug and I think he is a very good 3rd line player. I do worry that he will have forgotten over the summer the hard work he needed to be effective but I think with the vets this team has now and with his potential leadership qualities he will come up swinging and not stop til late may or june. Hecht will get about 40pts and have 10-15goal, he will be sound defensively but not really be impressive at all. Boyes has the potential to be amazing in a contract year but if he gets traded i dont think it will change anything on the team or the line by not having him around, I hope he proves me wrong. Mckormick - Goose - Kaleta Good strong checking line with the 2nd most hated player in hockey on it... Love it. After Kaleta gets hurt I bet ellis or adam or Kassian or whomever does pretty good on this line and I think we finally have a defensively sound checking line that could help our team be a little more deep with out being a liability. I could see Gerbe dropping down for a few shifts or a game or two just to add some offense to the fourth line but that depends on Luke Adam and his progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Gerbe should continue to be a sparkplug and I think he is a very good 3rd line player. I do worry that he will have forgotten over the summer the hard work he needed to be effective but I think with the vets this team has now and with his potential leadership qualities he will come up swinging and not stop til late may or june. He will have forgotten the hard work he needed to be effective? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 A significant number of people here seem to like Vanek and Roy together? I thought Vanek played more effectively with Hecht last year than he ever did with Roy (before he got hurt) Their two styles of play do not compliment each other. Roy benifits more by playing with Vanek than vice versa imo. Vanek is a finesse player while Roy has a shoot at the first available opportunity mentality.I would like to see Leino work with Vanek.Picking the rw side for the Vanek/leino line would be a more interesting exercise imo. Lindy has a lot of flexibility this year and depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 The vast majority of people here seem to like Vanek and Roy together? I thought Vanek played more effectively with Hecht last year than he ever did with Roy (before he got hurt) Their two styles of play do not compliment each other.Roy benifits more by playing with Vanek than vice versa imo. Vanek is a finesse player while Roy is a shoot at the first available opportunity. I would like to see Leino work with Vanek.Picking the rw side for Vanek is a more interesting exercise imo. Lindy has a lot of flexibility this year. I agree. I think Leino was brought in to be our #1 center, so he should definitely get first dibs and showing what he can do with Vanek. I guess pre-season will probably force the decision one way or the other, but right now I would put Vanek/Leino/Stafford together on line one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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