nucci Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 If the sabres turnaround carries over to this season and future seasons we will have the highest scoring offense in the league* *The above statement is fact and now fits in with your list of acceptable justifications for not signing a $7M center. If Leino can carry over his play from last year and the playoffs, his contract will look like a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 From the link somewhere above in this thread: "The Wings reportedly outbid three other NHL teams for the free agent, but they're only on the hook for a year. By turning away from Igor Grigorenko (his automobile accident several years back robbed him of his speed), they'll now give Leino a look.' You have to think perhaps the Sabres were one of the three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 From the link somewhere above in this thread: "The Wings reportedly outbid three other NHL teams for the free agent, but they're only on the hook for a year. By turning away from Igor Grigorenko (his automobile accident several years back robbed him of his speed), they'll now give Leino a look.' You have to think perhaps the Sabres were one of the three. I don't even know what that quote means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR HOLLIDAY Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Lets be fair. I have stated that Stafford had a really good year. My issue with Stafford was getting the payday he did based on that one year. Horton has an established history of being pretty consistent. This is the only season where Stafford looked like he had any staying power in the NHL. It's pretty much the same feeling I have with Leino. It's a very uncomfortable feeling to see the Sabres make long term investments on players based on such a small sample. Horton in 26 years old and has one 30 goal season, three 25+ goal seasons and two 20+ seasons. Kovi, if the turn around carries over to this season and future seasons his contract will look like a bargain. Kessel is a prime example that you need to give up something to get something. It is a trade that seems to have worked out for both teams. An old fashion hockey trade as they use to say. Dude the Leafs got hosed on the Kessel deal, lol........ :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Not talking about you, talking about your views on players, which, of course, is not the same thing. Your view that Gagne is a far better player than Leino is almost laughable, given how the market values these players--and the market is set by people who run the NHL. I am delighted to have Leino at center as compared to Connolly, and I want no part of Gagne at this point any more than I want Kovalchuk. But your views on players tend to be so off the mark at times, it requires comment. :thumbsup: As far as this goes, it's worth noting that the flyers had a good long look at Gagne and cut him loose, while they tried to keep Leino with a contract offer for only $1MM less than the Sabres gave him. Also that they unloaded Richards, Carter and Versteeg but wanted to keep Leino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 To be fair, Horton had a year that you have criticized Stafford for having, Kovalchuk still hasn't proved he can produce when there is any pressure on and Kessel , while having a couple of good years still hasnt justified the cost I agree on Kovy and Kessel, but Horton's year was much better than Stafford's.Their regular seasons were comparable, and Stafford's was a bit better,, but Horton was great in the playoffs while Staffford didn't produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Miller Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Leino will be a good addition to the Sabres offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinhoTinto Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. Welcome. And thanks for the insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. I'll second what Weave said, Welcome to the Board! Hopefully you can stop in during the season and give your thoughts on Ville as he progresses as a Sabre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. Best new poster of the year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. Welcome to the board. Which wing pair do you think his skill set would work better with: Ennis & Boyes or Stafford & Vanek (or a mix & match of them or others)? I was kind of expecting it to be Ennis & Boyes, but would be interested to read your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Best new poster of the year! :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 :cry: Dude, your fate was sealed the minute you joined Team Stormcloud. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Dude, your fate was sealed the minute you joined Team Stormcloud. :devil: :clapping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 :cry: I meant the 2011-2012 season, which started July 1. Your 2010-2011 calder trophy is secure. (unless SDS gets PO'd at you, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I meant the 2011-2012 season, which started July 1. Your 2010-2011 calder trophy is secure. (unless SDS gets PO'd at you, of course). :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. Welcome and thanks... good stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. This certainly gives me a little more optimism. +1 and welcome to the board. Hope Leino turns out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 As a Finn who's been a huge fan of Ville since he played for my home town team back in 2007 (and presented a level of dominance not seen in the Finnish legue since Teemu Selanne and Saku Koivu in the 90s) I'm very exited to see that he chose Sabres as his new team. I like the balanced setup Sabres currently have and I truly hope that Ville would be given the possibility to be the #1 center in an NHL team - because that's what he was born to do as a hockey player, imo. Even though Ville has performed relatively ok during the past two seasons (one and a half to be exact), I still have the feeling the NHL has not seen (not even close) the Ville Leino he really could be - assuming the level of responsibility, linemates and chemistry in the team all work out perfectly. And why do I believe this? Main reason is that I've seen what he was capable in the Finnish legue (also compared to other Finns who have done extremely well in the NHL) and the level of natural talent and vision on ice which he posesses is second to none. And I do mean none. So let's hope that this "overpayment" turns out to be the steal of the decade for Sabres, at least I'll be exited to watch the team and Ville next season and you'll definitely have a new fan on the other side of the ocean! ...and to anyone who's doubting whether or not Ville is a natural center the answer is yes. An excellent post..Leino has many skills but it is his hockey sense/vision/passing skill sets that excite me when i think about Ville playing with vanek, who is no slouch in this department. A LW sniper and a pass first center that see the ice and have far above average passing skill sets. WOW. What a show this could turn into, especially if they add Boyes on the LW to that line vs Stafford. The talk here among the fans seems to envision a Vanek, DR, Stafford first line. Any pairing that does not put Vanek and Ville together on the ice would be a terrible waste of a great signing imo. I find it hard to believe they made this deal to waste Ville on the two line. That is why i do not expect DR to center the one line. There is no doubt that the Sabres will further strenghten their roster by trading for another center. Both Speteza and Statsny could fill the bill and along with a few others could fit nicely in my book. Even if they acquired one of the aformentioned centers I would still prefer the Ville / Vanek pairing. By playing together on the same line i would expect both their numbers to increase significantly. Vanek will easily hit 100 pts if the chemistry i think is there materializes. Ville could score 30+ goals. That is how high i am on this acquistion. I would love to know who authored this deal. Why do you guys think Philly wanted to resign him after they lost a great center?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 An excellent post..Leino has many skills but it is his hockey sense/vision/passing skill sets that excite me when i think about Ville playing with vanek, who is no slouch in this department. A LW sniper and a pass first center that see the ice and have far above average passing skill sets. WOW. What a show this could turn into, especially if they add Boyes on the LW, with his skills, to that line vs Stafford. The talk here among the fans seems to envision a Vanek, DR, Stafford first line. Any pairing that does not put Vanek and Ville on the ice together would be a terrible waste of a great signing imo. I find it hard to believe they made this deal to waste Ville on the two line. That is why i do not expect DR to center the one line. There is no doubt that the Sabres will further strenghten their roster by trading for another center. Either Speteza or Statsny would fit nicely in my book. Even if they acquired one of the aformentioned centers I would still prefer the Ville / Vanek pairing. By playing together on the same line i would expect both their numbers to increase significantly over last years output. Vanek will easily hit 100pts if the chemistry i think is there materializes and Ville will score 30+ goals. That is how high i am on this acquistion. I would love to know who authored this deal. I could see a legit argument for either Roy or Leino to end up on Vanek's line, though my gut feel is that Roy ends up his center (which will not make me happy as I do not believe the 2 complement each other well). But I don't want Spezza on this team, as his price would be high and though I'll admit he has mad skills, I just don't like his game. As X put it far more eloquently than I'm about to, the guy just isn't smart. Statsny would look great in B&G, but after giving away their 1st in '12 and their 2nd in either '12 or '13 at the Caps discretion, there is no way the Avs are making a trade involving him in which they don't get the best player. Moving him off that roster would likely make the Caps newly acquired pick a lottery pick. And, while I'd love to see Vanek end up in the 100 point club, I don't see it happening as there was only 1 - 100 point guy in the league last year, 4 the year before that, and 3 back in '09. If Vanek gets back to the 40 goal club, I'll be very happy and if he ends up at / over a ppg pace, the Sabres will almost definitely finish at least 5th in the East w/ the 4 or 2 slot being attainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I could see a legit argument for either Roy or Leino to end up on Vanek's line, though my gut feel is that Roy ends up his center (which will not make me happy as I do not believe the 2 complement each other well). But I don't want Spezza on this team, as his price would be high and though I'll admit he has mad skills, I just don't like his game. As X put it far more eloquently than I'm about to, the guy just isn't smart. Statsny would look great in B&G, but after giving away their 1st in '12 and their 2nd in either '12 or '13 at the Caps discretion, there is no way the Avs are making a trade involving him in which they don't get the best player. Moving him off that roster would likely make the Caps newly acquired pick a lottery pick. And, while I'd love to see Vanek end up in the 100 point club, I don't see it happening as there was only 1 - 100 point guy in the league last year, 4 the year before that, and 3 back in '09. If Vanek gets back to the 40 goal club, I'll be very happy and if he ends up at / over a ppg pace, the Sabres will almost definitely finish at least 5th in the East w/ the 4 or 2 slot being attainable. If Vanek and Ville end up together i think 100pt year is possible.(look at what he did with Hecht).Accumulating 27 points more than last year is not impossible! Part of the equation to get there will be a dramatically improved pp with Ville and Erhoff. I can see thomas scoring 40-55 goals (picking up 10 more on the pp)with some Ville chemistry and another 45-60 pts on assists.(with no prolonged injuries to either/Ville's numbers will prosper too) 45-60pts is not a big step beyond that imo given his unselfish style of play and his willingness to pass when he should shoot.( assuming Lindy gives him 18+ a game and keeps him off the PK)To resolve our little difference in opinion i propose that the winner contact the loser at the end of next year to say I told you so. I am always prepared to be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Statsny would look great in B&G, but after giving away their 1st in '12 and their 2nd in either '12 or '13 at the Caps discretion, there is no way the Avs are making a trade involving him in which they don't get the best player. Moving him off that roster would likely make the Caps newly acquired pick a lottery pick. Kind of off course from the thread topic but I just wanted to say that I hate the idea of Stastny in the blue & gold. I rarely get to see him play, but in the 2010 vancouver olympics -- perhaps an even bigger stage than the Stanley Cup Finals -- he was terrible. I would say he was far and away the WORST player on the US roster. I have never seen such bad positioning and so many awful decisions with the puck. He looked slow and had no hustle. Maybe he was playing injured, maybe I'm being overly critical -- after all, it was just a handful of games out of the year. But that has tainted my opinion of Stastny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 If Vanek and Ville end up together i think 100pt year is possible.(look at what he did with Hecht).Accumulating 27 points more than last year is not impossible! Part of the equation to get there will be a dramatically improved pp with Ville and Erhoff. I can see thomas scoring 40-50 goals (picking up 10 more on the pp)with some Ville chemistry and another 50-60 pts on assists.(with no prolonged injuries to either) 30-60pts is not a big step beyond that imo given his unselfish style of play and his willingness to pass when he should shoot.( assuming Lindy gives him 18+ a game and keeps him off the PK) May the winner contact the loser of our little difference in opinion at the end of next year to say I told you so. I am always prepared to be wrong. I hope you're right but don't see it happening. Last season was the only 1 that Vanek ever had more assists than goals as a pro. You have to go back to his 1st year w/ Sioux Falls to find another that he had more assists than goals and that was only by 3 (15g, 18a, 33p). He typically ends up w/ ~ as many assists as goals, so if he does pot 40 goals, I'd expect him getting ~35-40 assists. Feel free to gloat in the Spring, if he does hit the 100 pt plateau. I'll be just as pleased as the rest of this crowd if he does. Just don't be shocked if he's not there. There's a lot of other good players that won't get there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I hope you're right but don't see it happening. Last season was the only 1 that Vanek ever had more assists than goals as a pro. You have to go back to his 1st year w/ Sioux Falls to find another that he had more assists than goals and that was only by 3 (15g, 18a, 33p). He typically ends up w/ ~ as many assists as goals, so if he does pot 40 goals, I'd expect him getting ~35-40 assists. Feel free to gloat in the Spring, if he does hit the 100 pt plateau. I'll be just as pleased as the rest of this crowd if he does. Just don't be shocked if he's not there. There's a lot of other good players that won't get there either. One of the more notable comments made about Erhoff when he signed was his control of his shot. He's just not a uncontrollable cannon at the blue-line. I bring this up only to point out what a great match that would be with Vanek's hands and his uncanny ability to re-direct shots. I can envision many goals where Vanek is 5-10 feet in front of the goal and Erhoff feeding him shots. Surpassing his career high of 20 pp goals should be a reasonable goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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