bob_sauve28 Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Still want to trade him? Not tough enough? Too European? I'm glad we have him. Goals are hard to come by and he is getting it done as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheReaper Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'm glad to see it only took 2 and a half seasons for him to return to form. But never the less he has played quite well this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'm not a Kotalik "hater" but I guess I'll bite. I think he's five games into a hot streak to start the season. He's always been streaky and inconsistent in the past. This is exactly what we believed he was capable of. IF he keeps this up I'll be thrilled. I'm much more impressed with what Vanek's doing right now, because he looks like a completely different player. He's faster, skating well, and looks hungry and determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 The guy's going to be 30 on Dec. 23 and we're still debating what kind of player he's going to be? He's a known commodity. I don't think "streaky" is the right word to use. He's a 20-25 goal scorer who can put up double digits on the power play. Because he scores 25 doesn't mean he SHOULD be scoring 40. Let's not be greedy here. This has been one of the highest scoring teams post-lockout. How many goals can a team score? There is a limit ya know. If everyone on the team was "consistent," they be scoring seven goals a game! The better thing to ask is what else can Ales bring to the table? He's a big guy who can have a mean streak -- but that's where his game is truly inconsistent. But like I said he's 30 and what you see if probably what you get at this stage. I'm a Kotalik fan. He wears cool hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Let's not be greedy here. This has been one of the highest scoring teams post-lockout. How many goals can a team score? There is a limit ya know. If everyone on the team was "consistent," they be scoring seven goals a game! Thank you! I genuinely believe that this point is lost on many fans. There are only so many goals to be had. When Vanek cools off, hopefully Roy will get hot. If we could get the following this year, we'll be in decent shape: Vanek: 40 Roy: 30 Pomminstein: 30 Kotalik: 25 Paille: 20 Hecht: 20 Gaustad: 15 Connolly: 10 Stafford: 15 Max: 15 MacArthur: 10 Ellis, Rivet, Spacek, Kaleta, Peters, Sekera, Mair, Numminnen, Tallinder: 0-5 Couple those totals with the kind of defense we are playing and the goal tending we are getting and THIS IS a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Thank you! I genuinely believe that this point is lost on many fans. There are only so many goals to be had. Why is that? Do we get an allotment from the league, or does Lindy limit how many guys are allowed to score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Not happy with his SO effort last night. His bread and butter is his back hand move and I'd rather a goalie make a great save on that, than watch his poor effort last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Why is that? Do we get an allotment from the league, or does Lindy limit how many guys are allowed to score? Well, I suppose what he's referring to is that naturally teams wille just take their foot off the pedal, should they be up with a comfortable lead. Much like we did in the 3rd against the Isles. You could also argue that this year the team will rather try and sit on a two-goal lead in the 3rd, rather than keep attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'm not trying to hate on Kotalik, I really do hope he does continue playing this well. That being said, playing devil's advocate for a second - I guess I just don't understand how a guy whose goal totals have been all over the map can be described as anything other than streaky and inconsistent. Kotalik's full-season goal totals: 21 15 25 16 23 He's scored 4 goals on 15 SOG. Does anyone really expect that he'll continue scoring on a 27% pace? For comparison's sake, when Vanek scored 43 he was at just under 19%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'm glad he's producing. He's also in a contract year. I don't want him signed long term and I don't want to lose him for nothing. Come deadline time I say trade him to the highest bidder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Why is that? Do we get an allotment from the league, or does Lindy limit how many guys are allowed to score? Come on, you can't be serious. :rolleyes: If goal scoring was unlimited, then games would end 10-9. Most games are played 5 goals or less. That means there is a natural cap on goals. If Vanek is getting 2 a game, that leaves on average three or less goals for everyone else. You only hope that when one guy cools off, some else steps up to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Come on, you can't be serious. :rolleyes: If goal scoring was unlimited, then games would end 10-9. Most games are played 5 goals or less. That means there is a natural cap on goals. If Vanek is getting 2 a game, that leaves on average three or less goals for everyone else. You only hope that when one guy cools off, some else steps up to score. There's only one puck. I guess some people think an NFL team should have four 1,000-yard rushers. Then again, some people think scoring between 15 and 25 goals in five straight seasons is "streaky." The year he scored 15 goals, he played in only 62 games. The 25 goal year -- all 82 games. He's been remarkably consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Not happy with his SO effort last night. His bread and butter is his back hand move and I'd rather a goalie make a great save on that, than watch his poor effort last night. The five hole was open, so he went for it. Lehtonen quickly took it away though. If we're going to go after anyone for the shootout, I think it should be Lindy for putting Vanek out there. Yes, he's scoring, but he's been stopped on a couple breakaways already. That's not his strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 seriously...he shoulda gone to hank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 The five hole was open, so he went for it. Lehtonen quickly took it away though. If we're going to go after anyone for the shootout, I think it should be Lindy for putting Vanek out there. Yes, he's scoring, but he's been stopped on a couple breakaways already. That's not his strength. Vanek last year was beyond horrendous in the SO.. I don't fault him for seeing if his hot streak this year would continue into the SO. Experiment over.... You won't see Vanek anytime soon again unless everyone in front of him didn't get it done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Still want to trade him? Not tough enough? Too European? I'm glad we have him. Goals are hard to come by and he is getting it done as usual. I'm not a Kotalik hater but it has only been 5 games. He's a good player and I'm not sure there are a lot of haters out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Come on, you can't be serious. :rolleyes: If goal scoring was unlimited, then games would end 10-9. Most games are played 5 goals or less. That means there is a natural cap on goals. If Vanek is getting 2 a game, that leaves on average three or less goals for everyone else. You only hope that when one guy cools off, some else steps up to score. Come on nothing. I'm asking a serious question, one that I haven't seen a good answer to as of yet, so you can save the rolling eyes and just answer the question. I really don't follow. I just don't get why you seem to think if Vanek scores two, there are only three other goals to go around. I can buy the argument that teams will step off the gas, other things will happen that can limit every game from getting to 8 or 9 GF, but the idea that "scoring is limited" and that because player A scores XX goals a year, that means there are only so many goals for player B to score. Because of the stop clock rules, scoring, in and of itself, is unlimited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I'm not trying to hate on Kotalik, I really do hope he does continue playing this well. That being said, playing devil's advocate for a second - I guess I just don't understand how a guy whose goal totals have been all over the map can be described as anything other than streaky and inconsistent. Kotalik's full-season goal totals: 21 15 25 16 23 He's scored 4 goals on 15 SOG. Does anyone really expect that he'll continue scoring on a 27% pace? For comparison's sake, when Vanek scored 43 he was at just under 19%. Looking at his stats a little closer, I will admit that I screwed up here. The years with 15 and 16 goals were shortened by injury, and he played 62 and 66 games those years, respectively. For the most part his career average has been .25 - .30 goals per game, so he is more consistent than I gave him credit for. That said, the shooting percentage is the biggest difference this year - right now he is scoring on 26.7% of his SOG. His career high before this was 15.2%, when he scored 21 goals on 138 SOG in 68 games. So it's very likely that he is going to cool down but my revised expectations put him back in the 25-goal range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 The only "surprises" to me this year have been Paille and Lalime. Everyone else is doing about what I expect them to.. Vanek has impressed, but I can't say I'm surprised by it (off to a better start than expected, but if he keeps up a point per game pace THEN i'll be surprised). Everyone knew he had huge potential, now he's just living up to it. Kotalik is the same way. Obviously not as high as a ceiling, but he's getting the job that we expect him to do, done. Paille is a completely different player and has stepped his game up and earned a spot in the lineup. Going into the season I would have put him down as my guess for first player to be benched if things got bad... void now filled by Stafford. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 The only "surprises" to me this year have been Paille and Lalime. Everyone else is doing about what I expect them to.. Vanek has impressed, but I can't say I'm surprised by it (off to a better start than expected, but if he keeps up a point per game pace THEN i'll be surprised). Everyone knew he had huge potential, now he's just living up to it. Kotalik is the same way. Obviously not as high as a ceiling, but he's getting the job that we expect him to do, done. Paille is a completely different player and has stepped his game up and earned a spot in the lineup. Going into the season I would have put him down as my guess for first player to be benched if things got bad... void now filled by Stafford. <_< ^^^^^^^^ What he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Not happy with his SO effort last night. His bread and butter is his back hand move and I'd rather a goalie make a great save on that, than watch his poor effort last night. The five hole was open, so he went for it. Lehtonen quickly took it away though. If we're going to go after anyone for the shootout, I think it should be Lindy for putting Vanek out there. Yes, he's scoring, but he's been stopped on a couple breakaways already. That's not his strength. If Kotalik ALWAYS goes for the backhand move, goalies will KNOW it is coming and will begin to stop it. As Shrader mentioned, the shot was there and I'd say Al made a good choice to try for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Looking at his stats a little closer, I will admit that I screwed up here. The years with 15 and 16 goals were shortened by injury, and he played 62 and 66 games those years, respectively. For the most part his career average has been .25 - .30 goals per game, so he is more consistent than I gave him credit for. That said, the shooting percentage is the biggest difference this year - right now he is scoring on 26.7% of his SOG. His career high before this was 15.2%, when he scored 21 goals on 138 SOG in 68 games. So it's very likely that he is going to cool down but my revised expectations put him back in the 25-goal range. Well admitted, Senor Wolf. But was this reconsideration triggered by a viewing of a post by someone previously ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I'm glad he's producing. He's also in a contract year. I don't want him signed long term and I don't want to lose him for nothing. Come deadline time I say trade him to the highest bidder. Well said. Kotalik skills are a commodity and he will help any team he plays for. I think a decision has to be made at the end of this year to give him the raise he'll command to forego testing free-agency (someone will give him 3MM+ given his shot, experience, and SO scoring prowess), or give a younger guy a shot to play a regular role on the team. A lot of it probably has to do how "mature" this team seems at the end of the year, or if they pick up a vet in FA, with a trade, or off waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I think the biggest difference in this team is that they aren't taking anything for granted. Most of the core group went to the ECF their first two years in the league and thought they could coast into the playoffs every year. Missing last year was the best thing that could've happened (except for winning the Cup of course) to this particular Sabres team. They've come out hungry and have embraced Lindy's new defensive system and it's working quite nicely. I've always been a supporter of Kotalik. You don't find many guys that can shoot like he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Well admitted, Senor Wolf. But was this reconsideration triggered by a viewing of a post by someone previously ignored? :lol: No, not in any way. I went back to see what Big Al's goals per game average was - to bolster my own argument - and realized I had inadvertently "stepped in it." I've debated resetting my short Ignored Users list, but haven't done it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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