Would You Want Sabres Sneaking into the Playoffs if it Meant Adams and Staff stick Around With Extensions?

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Fine. I'm all for it. I'll make the Zoom call. But did you notice that chart is The PEGULA Era(rror)?

KA didn't and wouldn't come up with EEE, and he wouldn't look nearly as bad as the GM of most teams.

Not sure if he came up with EEE or not.  BUT HE wanted to tear it all down when he was hired, not a year later.  He may not have come up with it, but he was 100% on board with it.

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Fire Kevyn Adams now. Not tomorrow, now. 

It’s that simple 

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Not sure if he came up with EEE or not.  BUT HE wanted to tear it all down when he was hired, not a year later.  He may not have come up with it, but he was 100% on board with it.

If it was Pegula, he came up with the EEE plan *after* sending Adams out to spy on the team. His decisions were made upon hearing what Adams had to say, complete with his own biased way of saying it, however that was. Who actually came up with the plan is semantics, where Adams specifically is concerned. If he didn’t come up with the plan, he was chosen to implement it because he was agreeable to the philosophy. He would be as poor a GM on any team he was hired for because he’d only be hired by a team looking for a long form, job security rebuild where no results are expected 

the mere fact Terry would change GMs at all, if it happened, would suggest there’s a possibility he’s finally looking for something else 

and even if he wasn’t, it literally can’t be worse 

and at the very least it expresses accountability 

and even if no one takes any accountability for it, and even if Pegula hasn’t actually changed any mindset, and even if he doesn’t get lucky with a new hire and merely matches the putrid result of KA, even if it’s proclaimed nothing f*cking changed, I/we will know that’s not the case: Adams won’t be GM

again: no one in this thread or any thread has pieced together an argument for why Adams shouldn’t be fired. It literally has not happened. Arguments have been constructed for why it might not make a difference. Completely different things. There is no argument for not firing Adams.

Edited 4 hours ago by Thorny

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Fine. I'm all for it. I'll make the Zoom call. But did you notice that chart is The PEGULA Era(rror)?

KA didn't and wouldn't come up with EEE, and he wouldn't look nearly as bad as the GM of most teams.

Adams slice of the chart is still really bad.   But lets say you forgive him for the steep down slope of 2019/2020 and assume he inherited it and EEE.   Now just look and the poor performance for the last 4  years, their is no improvement and no serious team would tolerate that performance for this long.  Cup winning coaches and GMs get fired for that level of mediocrity.  

Then look past the chart and look at Adams body of work.  Look at trades and drafts, who was shipped out and who was brought in, the contracts,  the coaches, the team attendance and popularity, the teams stature in the league, etc.   We do not need this chart to tell us that a major change is needed or this team could cease to exist.   

That is not all on Adams and his crew, and he is the first person to tell us that, which is one of many reasons why he is not going to fix this. 

The standard for the Pegula Sabres is that there is no standard.  Pegula's reason for the Sabres existence is the biggest lie in the history of the modern  NHL.  

[Crusader1969]

Think we can close up this thread.   
 

they aren't sneaking in anywhere 

[DarthEbriate]

Pegulas and Sheevyn. Always two there are; no more, no less.

You can't end the trilogy until they're both gone. But, you enjoy the story when either one of them gets resolved.   (and... just ignore the sequels for now.)

[bunomatic]

If a team figures out a way to make the playoffs with this sad sack crew I’ll take the playoffs. But it ain’t going to happen no way no how. Fire everyone involved in this build. Its been a complete disaster with a couple bright spots. KA has had 5 years. He has failed.

[mjd1001]

54 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It’s that simple 

It might be the move to make at this point but I wouldn't say it isn't simple. 

Simple would mean you fire him and you were on the right path. 

It's more complicated than that because more changes are needed. Adam's gone... Not enough. There has to be more with it. 

If you let Adams go.... Promote from within... And basically have the status quo... Again, that's not good enough. 

Move on from Adams, but then any like-minded people in the front office have to get moved on from also. And you better bring someone in from the outside who is going to have no connection to any of these players.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

It might be the move to make at this point but I wouldn't say it isn't simple. 

Simple would mean you fire him and you were on the right path. 

It's more complicated than that because more changes are needed. Adam's gone... Not enough. There has to be more with it. 

If you let Adams go.... Promote from within... And basically have the status quo... Again, that's not good enough. 

Move on from Adams, but then any like-minded people in the front office have to get moved on from also. And you better bring someone in from the outside who is going to have no connection to any of these players.

lol you get that this is an entertainment product, right? There are countless arguments that can be made for why there’s no reason not to fire him because we can’t rule out it’ll be better once we do, and it also can’t be worse so there’s no reason not to try. Or because it could be indicative of a changing mindset from Terry. Or it expresses accountability. Or because he simply deserves the appropriate response to his job peformance 

*leave all that aside*

you are still taking issue with my chosen, personal metric for how I evaluate my entertainment product 

“oh, you only look for comedy in film and you found the film very funny and so you love it? It’s not that simple. Let me tell you why it’s not the film you want.”

you need to stop missing my point here - I want Adams fired. I don’t care if it changes nothing. I’m sick of his face. I’ve been railing accurately against him for 6 years. He traded my favourite player. It’s personal. You can leave your arguments at the door in this sense - they have nothing to do with the satisfaction I’ll gain by seeing him canned

what part of “I don’t watch the sabres anymore at all but will if he’s fired” doesn’t make sense to you? That’s my metric. I am stating to you, outright, that for THIS FAN, firing him makes a huge difference. You can’t say it might not make a difference because I’m telling you right now it does.

if I am on an island, so be it 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thorny

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

lol you get that this is an entertainment product, right? There are countless arguments that can be made for why there’s no reason not to fire him because we can’t rule out it’ll be better once we do, and it also can’t be worse so there’s no reason not to try. Or because it could be indicative of a changing mindset from Terry. Or it expresses accountability. Or because he simply deserves the appropriate response to his job peformance 

*leave all that aside*

you are still taking issue with my chosen, personal metric for how I evaluate my entertainment product 

“oh, you only look for comedy in film and you found the film very funny and so you love it? It’s not that simple. Let me tell you why it’s not the film you want.”

you need to stop - I want Adams fired. I don’t care if it changes nothing. I’m sick of his face. I’ve been railing accurately against him for 6 years. He traded my favourite player. It’s personal. You can leave your arguments at the door in this sense - they have nothing to do with the satisfaction I’ll gain by seeing him canned

what part of “I don’t watch the sabres anymore at all but will if he’s fired” doesn’t make sense to you? That’s my metric. I am stating to you, outright, that for THIS FAN, firing him makes a huge difference. You can’t say it might not make a difference because I’m telling you right now it does.

if I am on an island, so be it 

Yes.

There's pretty much only 1 thing they can do to make this all seem to be even worse -> can Adams and promote Forton into his former role.  The ONLY redeeming part of that is that it's kind of different.  But, with having brough Kekalainen in, don't expect they'd do THAT.

And Kekalainen might not be able to get it done either; but he'd by definition be better than Kevyn.  (Jarmo isn't this kid's 1st choice, but he ain't Kevyn nor Jerry either, so sure, roll with him.)

[Thorny]

36 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yes.

There's pretty much only 1 thing they can do to make this all seem to be even worse -> can Adams and promote Forton into his former role.  The ONLY redeeming part of that is that it's kind of different.  But, with having brough Kekalainen in, don't expect they'd do THAT.

And Kekalainen might not be able to get it done either; but he'd by definition be better than Kevyn.  (Jarmo isn't this kid's 1st choice, but he ain't Kevyn nor Jerry either, so sure, roll with him.)

To me that’s still way better 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

lol you get that this is an entertainment product, right? There are countless arguments that can be made for why there’s no reason not to fire him because we can’t rule out it’ll be better once we do, and it also can’t be worse so there’s no reason not to try. Or because it could be indicative of a changing mindset from Terry. Or it expresses accountability. Or because he simply deserves the appropriate response to his job peformance 

*leave all that aside*

you are still taking issue with my chosen, personal metric for how I evaluate my entertainment product 

“oh, you only look for comedy in film and you found the film very funny and so you love it? It’s not that simple. Let me tell you why it’s not the film you want.”

you need to stop missing my point here - I want Adams fired. I don’t care if it changes nothing. I’m sick of his face. I’ve been railing accurately against him for 6 years. He traded my favourite player. It’s personal. You can leave your arguments at the door in this sense - they have nothing to do with the satisfaction I’ll gain by seeing him canned

what part of “I don’t watch the sabres anymore at all but will if he’s fired” doesn’t make sense to you? That’s my metric. I am stating to you, outright, that for THIS FAN, firing him makes a huge difference. You can’t say it might not make a difference because I’m telling you right now it does.

if I am on an island, so be it 

Someone is easily triggered... Who once told me that they like posting in short form more.. compared to my long form.

[Demoted]

Thankfully there is no such thing as "sneaking in" with the Sabres. 

[Rasmus_]

To end this purgatory, I'd take w/e to make the playoffs.  However, signing an extension doesn't mean they live through the extension.

[Thorny]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

Someone is easily triggered... Who once told me that they like posting in short form more.. compared to my long form.

im glad you deleted the other post cause it didn’t make sense. I wasn’t saying firing him fixes eveything and it’s “simple as that” I literally detailed that I would take a great deal of satisfaction in it even if nothing else changed. I wasn’t supposing it was a guaranteed fix all and never said that 

also I didn’t say to stop posting about it lol I was saying to stop missing my point in responding to me in saying, “but it might not change anything!” (you responded to my post, here).

My point being that I literally do not care if it doesn’t change anything (even though I think it could) - and I keep saying that. I’m not triggered, I just don’t think you are registering the fact that one can be fully aware it’s not a guarantee of anything yet still want to see it. 

[mjd1001]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

im glad you deleted the other post cause it didn’t make sense. I wasn’t saying firing him fixes eveything and it’s “simple as that” I literally detailed that I would take a great deal of satisfaction in it even if nothing else changed. I wasn’t supposing it was a guaranteed fix all and never said that 

also I didn’t say to stop posting about it lol I was saying to stop missing my point in responding to me in saying, “but it might not change anything!” (you responded to my post, here).

My point being that I literally do not care if it doesn’t change anything (even though I think it could) - and I keep saying that. I’m not triggered, I just don’t think you are registering the fact that one can be fully aware it’s not a guarantee of anything yet still want to see it. 

And my point is I want to change when it's going to be significant enough to actually make a difference

[PASabreFan]

I want to know where this KA Fan Club meets.

It's bordering on Straw Man Territory.

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

And my point is I want to change when it's going to be significant enough to actually make a difference

And if changing the General Manager of your hockey club doesn’t make *any difference at all* than there’s zero argument that a 3rd line lineup decision makes any difference and it gets to the point where I don’t even know what we are doing here, then. Your stance mandates that we should change nothing because nothing matters unless the owner changes

thankfully we don’t need to debate the value of incremental improvement because, as mentioned, even if you told me the result would change not at all, I’d want to see Adams canned as GM

 

[EM88]

I say yes, make the playoffs.

If they play at the 100 point pace from now on this season, which is what they would likely need to do to make the playoffs, that is a sign that something went very right.

If something goes that right, I will take that and evaluate at the end of the year.

It may be mostly a moot point because what are the odds of that happening?  I do not think they are high.

[R_Dudley]

It is a really odd contrived question given the quantifiable malfeasance of the current GM and the fact making the playoffs is not going to happen. 

However I will answer the question, No sneaking in means nothing building a winning organization that can perform and compete at that level is what is needed and the whole current group needs to be totally replaced before I believe it would be possible to even start to do that.

Keeping a group that took 6 years to sneak in and hoping it could be successful and even repeatable is whack.  

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

No. Tank this season with dignity, flush out Adams and let's have a good shot at McKenna.

[LTS]

47 minutes ago, Thorny said:

im glad you deleted the other post cause it didn’t make sense. I wasn’t saying firing him fixes eveything and it’s “simple as that” I literally detailed that I would take a great deal of satisfaction in it even if nothing else changed. I wasn’t supposing it was a guaranteed fix all and never said that 

also I didn’t say to stop posting about it lol I was saying to stop missing my point in responding to me in saying, “but it might not change anything!” (you responded to my post, here).

My point being that I literally do not care if it doesn’t change anything (even though I think it could) - and I keep saying that. I’m not triggered, I just don’t think you are registering the fact that one can be fully aware it’s not a guarantee of anything yet still want to see it. 

So much this. Elsewhere it's been stated that Pegula got lucky with Beane and that's why the Bills are successful. I'm not going to debate it, but not changing anything just puts hope that Kevyn Adams gets it right at some point. It's like waiting for UPL to be a top goaltender.

Just make a change and see what happens. If nothing else, it gives people something to talk about.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

What is the nicest way to put this?  The Sabres are toast as long as Adams remains as Pegula's yes man.   As long as Terry has a say in the Sabres roster the team will never be good.  Pegula already has his built in excuse for this season - injuries.  Adams isn't going anywhere unless the team is one of the 3-4 worst teams in the NHL this season and maybe not even then.  We have become the Florida Marlins of hockey, but without the two championships. 

So what about the OP question.  There really isn't a question here, as this team cannot make the playoffs as currently constructed.  

[DarthEbriate]

44 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What is the nicest way to put this?  The Sabres are toast as long as Adams remains as Pegula's yes man.   As long as Terry has a say in the Sabres roster the team will never be good.  Pegula already has his built in excuse for this season - injuries.  Adams isn't going anywhere unless the team is one of the 3-4 worst teams in the NHL this season and maybe not even then.  We have become the Florida Marlins of hockey, but without the two championships. 

So what about the OP question.  There really isn't a question here, as this team cannot make the playoffs as currently constructed.  

There is one way, and unfortunately, it's the way Adams has shortchanged at every opportunity in his tenure until this season (and this season they're running with Luukkonen who is not this guy) and even this season it's hardly likely because while Adams went with quantity, he didn't go and get the best quality.

They would need elite goaltending. Not "UPL is hot for 20 games" goaltending. Elite goaltending. Hasek goaltending. And they would need it for 55 of the remaining 67 games. It would need to sub-2.00 GAA, .925+ sv% and at least 9 shutouts.

Edited 22 minutes ago by DarthEbriate

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

I didn’t miss anything, respectfully I think you did 

how many times do I need to say it? I do not care if it is cosmetic - that’s not a deterrent to me wanting to see the change. Adams deserves to be fired so he should be fired. 

i cannot make it anymore clear that Adams getting fired is a big part of the reward in and of itself. I want to see him fired because he’s terrible at his job and that job has hurt my beloved team. I want to see him pay the price, if they fire Adams and Terry takes over as GM that day I’ll *still* be happier than I am now: one less yokel getting a free ride by tearing apart the Sabres 

I want the criminals locked up even if they’ll just be replaced with more criminals: it’s not just about society, it’s about the individual criminals themselves seeing justice. I want Adams to see justice even if Terry doesn’t. Perfect won’t be the enemy of good for me. 

Well sure. I've wanted Adams fired for a while. I was very disappointed he wasn't fired last year. Most of us were. So yes, fire Adams. Absolutely. 

I'm just saying if it's a cosmetic change nothing will really change and we will just be fooled into optimism for another 2 or 3 years. Terry has to change his view and involvement or this will never really change. That's the core of the argument.