Peters says Levi has asked to be moved

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I don't disagree with you, but we can't reverse the trades.  They've happened.  So the best we can hope for is some kind of positive outcome down the road.

There's no question that a roster with all those top players (and a good coach) would be much better than what's on the ice today, but again, the horse is out of the barn.  The ship has sailed.  Jack Eichel and Sam Reinhart are not going to come walking through that door.  (I'm out of cliches...)  All we can do is hope that things are better for the current team than they've been in the recent past and that the younger players acquired in past deals will ultimately develop and help the team, or be flipped for assets that can help the current team.  A six or seven game stretch is not enough of a sample size to give a definitive answer, but if the team plays the way they have the last 2 weeks for the remainder of the season, they have a good chance of making the playoffs as one of the lower seeds.  They're not a legitimate Stanley Cup contender, but can be competitive.  It's not necessarily better than what could have been, but it may be a step in the right direction given what we've seen in the last few years.  And they still have the 2nd youngest roster in the league, so there's a lot of growth opportunities with the guys they currently have (or, with assets acquired by flipping them for more experienced players).

I agree with you on the issue of having lower expectations compared to many other fans. Willing to accept this lower standard is a requirement in order to stay engaged with this franchise. That in itself is a sad commentary about where we are and what we can realistically hope for. Another way of saying it is dumbing down the standard because of the belief that a higher standard is unattainable. In most sports, especially in a sport with a cap system, there is usually an up and down cycle. We should be able to reach the middle cycle but considering the caliber of staff running the operation, the upper cycle is not likely attainable unless there is a dramatic change within. I'm not trying to be a downer but am simply acknowledging where we are at and how far we can go.  

[Porous Five Hole]

2 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I think within these 30 days, he would go back to STL only if he has a NHL roster spot. STL doesn’t have a goalie problem. So, he would probably be waived again and claimed by a different team. 

So if Buffalo waives Ellis within 30 days, he reverts back to the Blues and can be sent outright to the AHL. If after 30 days, it is NHL waivers for all teams.  

[Taro T]

Just now, kas23 said:

I think within these 30 days, he would go back to STL only if he has a NHL roster spot. STL doesn’t have a goalie problem. So, he would probably be waived again and claimed by a different team. 

Unless another team besides the Sabres put a claim in on him, if St. Louis wants him back in the 1st 30 days and the Sabres waive him then he's Peoria (or wherever the Blues farm club is nowadays) bound.

Should the Sabres keep him around a bit longer, then anybody making a claim would have to keep him in the NHL.

But, no point at all in waiving him until they know what they have in him.  Maybe they lucked into something.

[JohnC]

44 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

It DOES matter because Levi has had full control to change that HIMSELF  and has repeatedly puked all over himself when given the opportunity.  Not only has he sucked but he has gotten WORSE every chance he has been given. An .878 and 4.12 last year? Is that a joke? That wouldn't even cut it in the era of Grant Fuhr when good goalies were routinely at .900 or lower.

He wants to be mad? Fine. Be mad at your damn self and hold yourself accountable for sucking Saskatchewan Moose C0ck when given the chance to allow them to do something they have been dying to do from Day 1.

And let's not forget the caliber of player we traded to get him. Anger should be directed at the people involved in the miscalculation of the deal and not the particular player we got back. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Unless another team besides the Sabres put a claim in on him, if St. Louis wants him back in the 1st 30 days and the Sabres waive him then he's Peoria (or wherever the Blues farm club is nowadays) bound.

Should the Sabres keep him around a bit longer, then anybody making a claim would have to keep him in the NHL.

But, no point at all in waiving him until they know what they have in him.  Maybe they lucked into something.

Springfield MA, I believe.

[matter2003]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

And let's not forget the caliber of player we traded to get him. Anger should be directed at the people involved in the miscalculation of the deal and not the particular player we got back. 

He is young still...goalies typically take a while to develop, so he should realize that and stop trying to rush the process and just focus on improving and being ready when he gets called up and given a chance.

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He played better than UPL the 1st few games of last year, having 2 very good games out of 3 to UPL's 1 good game out of 4; but Ruff still decided to run with UPL after UPL finally had A good game against one of the worst teams in the league.  (And UPL's 1 good game didn't happen until after Levi had a disasterous start against the BJs.)  He'd also played very well at the end of the previous season in the handful of games he'd gotten as Granato was on his way out the door.

Levi was bad when he finally got back in but wasn't horrible, but by then Ruff had already long before made up his mind on who his starter was and when they managed to regrab Reimer, the Amerks net was his; but he'd played well those 1st couple of games when he believed he had an opportunity to win the job after having beaten Reimer out of the top 2 role and having outplayed UPL as well.

UPL played well for a few games after being handed the starter's net, as he'd done in the past (you LIKE UPL, you really, really LIKE UPL) after getting handed the starter's net.   But after losing a game to Minny that he'd personally played great in (as did the rest of the team), the wheels fell off for both UPL and the Sabres.

Also, would agree that Adams has wanted to give the crease to Levi; but Ruff never had any plans to give the net to Levi.  At his B&G I's that 1st summer he was in town, he was talking UPL up hugely with little mention of Levi.  And UPL was the presumptive starter as camp opened both last year and this year.  Had UPL not been broken heading into camp, he would've been the starter and Lyon the backup as was the original plan.

He posted an .872 and 4.12.  Sorry, I gave him too much credit in the initial post. It was an .872 not an .878. Those are the results, I don't care about any mental ***** about why or how or whatever else on where they came from.  He simply wasn't good enough when he was given the chance. Period. Your job as a pro is to be ready when your number gets called and to do your job, and he failed repeatedly to do that.

That being said, he is still very young and most goalies typically aren't ready until 25 or 26, so he very well could be exceptional within the next 2 or 3 years as he is only 23.

Edited 4 hours ago by matter2003

[msw2112]

28 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you on the issue of having lower expectations compared to many other fans. Willing to accept this lower standard is a requirement in order to stay engaged with this franchise. That in itself is a sad commentary about where we are and what we can realistically hope for. Another way of saying it is dumbing down the standard because of the belief that a higher standard is unattainable. In most sports, especially in a sport with a cap system, there is usually an up and down cycle. We should be able to reach the middle cycle but considering the caliber of staff running the operation, the upper cycle is not likely attainable unless there is a dramatic change within. I'm not trying to be a downer but am simply acknowledging where we are at and how far we can go.  

Agreed.  Back to more cliches, you have to learn to walk before you learn to run.  Given all the missteps of the recent past, the Sabres have to learn how to walk before they learn to run.  Being competitive and consistent, and getting into the playoffs (even as an 8 seed and losing in the 1st round), is to me, learning to walk, and the step this team needs to take.  If the younger players develop and/or are flipped for quality veterans, maybe then the team can rise to the next level of being a serious contender down the road.  THIS current roster, THIS season, is not going to rise to that level.  Sure, there are rare teams that make a huge leap in one season and make a magical run to the finals, but that's an unrealistic expectation for this team.

The issue that I have, and I think a lot of fans have, is that with the year under Granato when they finished 1 point out of a playoff spot (which I think was the season ending in April 2023), they looked like they had learned to walk, and taken that step, and were ready to advance to the next steps.  Rather than capitalizing on the moment, management sat on its hands and did very little to improve the team to keep the momentum going, instead doing nothing and regressing the next 2 seasons.  So now we're trying to work forward, starting from the point they have regressed to, rather from where they were in April of 2023.

Edited 3 hours ago by msw2112

[JP51]

26 minutes ago, inkman said:

Eh, I don't put much stock into what Andrew Peters says. He's motivated financially to post non-sense like this to get clicks and viewers (listeners?).  

Oh you mean with regards to leaving... yeah, he is certainly not my prime source lol... but in the end I would not be surprised if Levi wasnt frustrated.. either way, maybe we over expected, but when we make the trade in 2021 I expected more return from him by 25/26...  I think most did... so as for me I have this trade and Levi in the disappointment category hoping that changes soon and he is still with us and not traded away for another raw prospect that we will raise up and send away.. 

[JP51]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

And let's not forget the caliber of player we traded to get him. Anger should be directed at the people involved in the miscalculation of the deal and not the particular player we got back. 

I think this is a big piece of it... they pull Levi off of waivers, no one cares... They trade away a 50 goal scoring 2 time stanley cup player they still havent replaced for an AHL starter... shows the abject stupidity and incompetence pervading this cluster...  but we have run this round and round...  this is what you get... it would not surprise me at all to see Adams trade him and watch him blossom....  Like trade a blossoming star for a prospect... get the prospect and right before he becomes a blossoming start trade him for another prospect... rinse wash repeat Sabres. 

 

Just as an aside... Peterka and Cozens would be tied with each other for the lead in scoring on our team currently. 

Edited 3 hours ago by JP51

[Drag0nDan]

1 minute ago, JP51 said:

Oh you mean with regards to leaving... yeah, he is certainly not my prime source lol... but in the end I would not be surprised if Levi wasnt frustrated.. either way, maybe we over expected, but when we make the trade in 2021 I expected more return from him by 25/26...  I think most did... so as for me I have this trade and Levi in the disappointment category hoping that changes soon and he is still with us and not traded away for another raw prospect that we will raise up and send away.. 

I think we all over-expected based on his college production, and his rookie year cup of coffee. 

End of the day, his 39 NHL starts are 2nd in his draft class behind Nico Daws.  Askarov was picked 11 overall and only has 22 starts, and is currently 1-4-1 with an .844 sv% and 4.69 GAA.  It's certainly a position that requires a lot more patience than others. 

At the time of trade though - Buffalo used these goalies: Anderson, Tokarski, Dell, UPL, Houser, and Subban.  In the AHL, UPL started the majority of games but the rest of the depth was pretty much the same guys as above.  There wasn't much of anything at the NHL level or AHL level from a goaltending perspective.  UPL was fast tracked because he was the only one there, Portillo refused to sign, and Johansson was dumped because he was terrible.  

That's not to say that any of these guys are the answer, just to say that at the time we fans probably set unrealistic expectations because of how bad the goalies had gotten after losing Ullmark. 

They now have: 

• Lyon, capable backup performing well in his chance to start.  Kind of a late bloomer.  
• UPL, probably a future backup elsewhere.  Overpaid.  But still the highest quality home grown goalie the team has produced recently. 
• Ellis, probably a bit short on AHL/NHL starts to be relied upon - but is just 25 and under team control.  
• Levi, Right around the sweet spot of 100 starts and doesn't have to clear waivers so unfortunately for him, that means he mans the AHL.
• 4 prospects in Leinonen, Ratzlaff, Leenders, and Prokhorov.  

As bad as the position has been, its about as good of a spot as they've been in a long time.  I don't think they have their "guy" today, but there's a number of options as well as future pieces to try and get this position right.  

[Doohickie]

7 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

• Lyon, capable backup performing well in his chance to start.  Kind of a late bloomer.  
• UPL, probably a future backup elsewhere.  Overpaid.  But still the highest quality home grown goalie the team has produced recently. 
• Ellis, probably a bit short on AHL/NHL starts to be relied upon - but is just 25 and under team control.  
• Levi, Right around the sweet spot of 100 starts and doesn't have to clear waivers so unfortunately for him, that means he mans the AHL.
• Georgiev, fwiw
• 4 prospects in Leinonen, Ratzlaff, Leenders, and Prokhorov.  

fify

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

If Levi feels that Ellis and UPL are ahead of him in the positional rankings, then, if true, his desire to move on is understandable. 

That is not understandable, that is actually a ridiculous thought. 

What teams are going to have an easier path for him?  Are the Sabres supposed to trade him to a team that will play him and then take whatever they can get?    This guy was the key part of the Reinhart trade, he needs to clear his head, work hard, and get ready for when the next chance comes.  

IF Levi is unwilling to compete with the other 3 goalies then he truly is entitled.   The Sabre are doing him right by making him the #1 in Rochester rather than getting lost in a 3 headed rotation.   

Good god, I hope the players don't think like some of the fans here.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Pimlach

[msw2112]

5 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I think we all over-expected based on his college production, and his rookie year cup of coffee. 

End of the day, his 39 NHL starts are 2nd in his draft class behind Nico Daws.  Askarov was picked 11 overall and only has 22 starts, and is currently 1-4-1 with an .844 sv% and 4.69 GAA.  It's certainly a position that requires a lot more patience than others. 

At the time of trade though - Buffalo used these goalies: Anderson, Tokarski, Dell, UPL, Houser, and Subban.  In the AHL, UPL started the majority of games but the rest of the depth was pretty much the same guys as above.  There wasn't much of anything at the NHL level or AHL level from a goaltending perspective.  UPL was fast tracked because he was the only one there, Portillo refused to sign, and Johansson was dumped because he was terrible.  

That's not to say that any of these guys are the answer, just to say that at the time we fans probably set unrealistic expectations because of how bad the goalies had gotten after losing Ullmark. 

They now have: 

• Lyon, capable backup performing well in his chance to start.  Kind of a late bloomer.  
• UPL, probably a future backup elsewhere.  Overpaid.  But still the highest quality home grown goalie the team has produced recently. 
• Ellis, probably a bit short on AHL/NHL starts to be relied upon - but is just 25 and under team control.  
• Levi, Right around the sweet spot of 100 starts and doesn't have to clear waivers so unfortunately for him, that means he mans the AHL.
• 4 prospects in Leinonen, Ratzlaff, Leenders, and Prokhorov.  

As bad as the position has been, its about as good of a spot as they've been in a long time.  I don't think they have their "guy" today, but there's a number of options as well as future pieces to try and get this position right.  

Interesting take.  I wonder if one or more of Ellis, Levi, Leinonen, Ratzlaff, Leenders, and Prokhorov will develop into a quality NHL starting goalie.  Ellis and Levi are much further along, so we'll probably have answers on them sooner.  If given a shot, Ellis could do so this season.  Lyon looks good right now, but is likely to regress to his average, and UPL, people forget, is still only 26 himself, has flashed in spots, and many goalies bloom in their late 20s/early 30s, so he might still have a future.  The problem the Sabres have is that they need to get to the playoffs now, or risk their stars wanting to be traded and starting a rebuild all over AGAIN, as has happened with the last couple rounds of stars they've had.  They may not have time to wait and see what UPL might develop into, which means that if Lyon doesn't continue his stellar play and/or Ellis doesn't emerge, it could spell trouble.

[Drag0nDan]

13 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I think this is a big piece of it... they pull Levi off of waivers, no one cares... They trade away a 50 goal scoring 2 time stanley cup player they still havent replaced for an AHL starter... shows the abject stupidity and incompetence pervading this cluster...  but we have run this round and round...  this is what you get... it would not surprise me at all to see Adams trade him and watch him blossom....  Like trade a blossoming star for a prospect... get the prospect and right before he becomes a blossoming start trade him for another prospect... rinse wash repeat Sabres. 

 

Just as an aside... Peterka and Cozens would be tied with each other for the lead in scoring on our team currently. 

I didn't like the Reinhart trade because he was 26 - like this IS his prime.  But for whatever reason, he was bridged by Botterill.  While also trying to navigate the ullmark situation that looked to be going down like the hindenberg.  Just terrible roster and asset management that lead to the goalie situation i outlined above.  

The reinhart compensation felt like it was missing a player moreso than anything else.  Player-prospect-pick.  

7 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

fify

I forgot he was here 🙂 

[JohnC]

41 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

That is not understandable, that is actually a ridiculous thought. 

What teams are going to have an easier path for him?  Are the Sabres supposed to trade him to a team that will play him and then take whatever they can get?    This guy was the key part of the Reinhart trade, he needs to clear his head, work hard, and get ready for when the next chance comes.  

IF Levi is unwilling to compete with the other 3 goalies then he truly is entitled.   The Sabre rare doing him right by making him the #1 in Rochester rather than getting lost in a 3 headed rotation.   

Good god, I hope the players don't think like some of the fans here.  

I don’t know what he is actually thinking or if his trade request is real. But if he believed that he was sliding down the positional rankings, then it wouldn’t be a surprise that he would want to seek a better opportunity. You might find it odd, but I don’t.

[rickshaw]

I believe Levi will be nothing more than a career nhl backup, if that. I just don’t see him being a nhl caliber starter.

He quite possibly could be a career ahl goalie or go overseas. 

[Mustache of God]

If I'm Levi I'd be pretty pissed about the Ellis situation. He sees the organization go out and picks a goalie up on the waiver wire to fill in while UPL was injured for what, two weeks(?), that tells me that the organization doesn't have faith that Levi could fill in as the back-up at any point in the season. And now that UPL is healthy they're running this ridiculous 3-headed goalie rotation which effectively means Levi's chances of coming up into the NHL to fill in for an injury have completely evaporated, unless of course 2 goalies go down at the same time. 

I want to know why GMKA decided to get Ellis in the first place.

[Pimlach]

46 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I don’t know what he is actually thinking or if his trade request is real. But if he believed that he was sliding down the positional rankings, then it wouldn’t be a surprise that he would want to seek a better opportunity. You might find it odd, but I don’t.

I would expect Levi to just keep working on his game, knowing his time will come, and knowing that the Sabres invested in him.  If that is not what he is doing then I would be disappointed.  

Compare the AHL records of Levi and Ellis.  They both look good on paper and they look pretty even.  Unless you covered the AHL last year you won't have a legit opinion on who is better, and better in the AHL might not transfer to the NHL anyway.  

Ellis was an opportunity to pick up an AHL goalie/NHL prospect that was free.   Smart move and good insurance. 

Ellis is on the NHL club because UPL was hurt and Georgiev failed,  so Ellis became backup.  They would have to waive him to send him down so they kept him.   To me this was all about business and risk management and nothing about thinking Ellis is better than Levi, although maybe some people in the organization do think that.  

The team wants Levi to be play as the #1 right now in Rochester - which is the best thing for him.  Things change fast sometimes, he needs to sit tight and keep working on his game.  

 

 

 

[Porous Five Hole]

14 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

If I'm Levi I'd be pretty pissed about the Ellis situation. He sees the organization go out and picks a goalie up on the waiver wire to fill in while UPL was injured for what, two weeks(?), that tells me that the organization doesn't have faith that Levi could fill in as the back-up at any point in the season. And now that UPL is healthy they're running this ridiculous 3-headed goalie rotation which effectively means Levi's chances of coming up into the NHL to fill in for an injury have completely evaporated, unless of course 2 goalies go down at the same time. 

I want to know why GMKA decided to get Ellis in the first place.

What is better for Levi’s development?
 

Playing twice a week in Rochester or watching Lyon play in Buffalo? Ellis was injury insurance for UPL so Levi doesn’t have to be recalled to sit and watch Lyon as an NHL backup (during his last year as a waiver exempt player).

[DarthEbriate]

Trade request or no, I want Levi to be upset by the precedings.

He got to play 2 third periods in the preseason. He had the tougher scoring chances against and he gave up 0 goals. But Lyon and Georgiev and then Luukkonen got the starts. Is Levi better than any of them...  right now...  yes. Yes he is. I personally think his ceiling is higher than them because of his anticipation -- though he probably is only a 1B kind of guy if he reaches his peak.

And then he got sent down first because of his waiver status. It's good to be frustrated.

That said: patience, padawan. Hone the craft and prove them all wrong when finally given the opportunity (once he has the requisite experience and game -- because his previous opportunities have been rushed garbage with non-performing defensive structures, playoff chases where the GM got Greenway and nothing else, and, most importantly not ready for the burden was he).