GDT: Avalanche @ Sabres, 12:30pm Oct. 13, 2025, 🎙 📺 ESPN+/MSG

[irregularly irregular]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This team is another 3-4yrs away from anything. 

 

2 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

That would be conditional on if we get a competent GM. 

3-4 years if effective today the entire front office and the entire coaching staff was dumped and competent people found to stop the swirl. It would take the remainder of the this season just to stop the momentum and maybe get the to the point that change can be made. Then there is a chance there might be some positive direction for this franchise. All that said, Terry has to sell the team in order for things to truly change for the better in the near term. I'm convinced of that he simply doesn't care. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This team is another 3-4yrs away from anything. 

Only if they move on from Adams now.  

[SabresBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Only if they move on from Adams now.  

All depends on who and hopefully not anyone from within. The entire front office needs to go, along with every scout pushing for Smurf hockey players, plus the entire coaching staff along with strength and conditioning coaches.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I agree things feel over.

Dahlin may be trying too hard because the rest of the team can't keep up. Still, watching him puke up the puck is hard to forgive.

I don't disagree with playing Lyon in three straight. He's been keeping the Sabres in games. But Ellis is going to have to play soon or they will wear Lyon out totally.

Dahlin has done this in other years too. They are already breaking from any semblance of a real system. It's the earliest this has started so far, but it happens every year. The team concept breaks down and individuals overplay and make mistakes. It'll get worse if things don't take some sort of radical turn but I doubt it as they just seem checked out already. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This team is another 3-4yrs away from anything. 

There is nothing to indicate it could be anything in even 3-4 years. 

It needs a complete reset, like an expansion team. Every single person here gone and a full reset with a new philosophy that will then take several years to build. 

[SabresBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

There is nothing to indicate it could be anything in even 3-4 years. 

It needs a complete reset, like an expansion team. Every single person here gone and a full reset with a new philosophy that will then take several years to build. 

From what I’ve seen from San Jose, they look already ahead of Buffalo.

[steveoath]

2 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

From what I’ve seen from San Jose, they look already ahead of Buffalo.

Because they have executed their plan well, and support the youngster’s development with vets. 

[steveoath]

Personally I would get rid of Adams annd everyone on the coaching staff. But who the hell will take the jobs? Anyone with any ambition won’t imo. I mean I would love to get Pete De Boer, but I don’t imagine he’s sitting around his house hoping for a call from Terry. 

[Kristian]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

There is nothing to indicate it could be anything in even 3-4 years. 

It needs a complete reset, like an expansion team. Every single person here gone and a full reset with a new philosophy that will then take several years to build. 

At least an expansion team gets to build a roster from NHL players.

[SabreFinn]

1 hour ago, steveoath said:

Because they have executed their plan well, and support the youngster’s development with vets. 

And braught in Jeff Skinner! 😀

[JP51]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Only if they move on from Adams now.  

Like by noon today... I dont see playoffs for literally 5 -10 years with the damage done to this brand it would need to almost exclusively need to be rebuilt thru the draft

[inkman]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

Like by noon today... I dont see playoffs for literally 5 -10 years with the damage done to this brand it would need to almost exclusively need to be rebuilt thru the draft

That’s just not happening 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, JP51 said:

Like by noon today... I dont see playoffs for literally 5 -10 years with the damage done to this brand it would need to almost exclusively need to be rebuilt thru the draft

No one can look out 5-10 years, but I get it.  What you are saying is they need another rebuild with a new GM, new coaches, and lots of players need a change of scenery.  

[North Buffalo]

Trading Peterka was a mistake on secondary scoring front... double whammy because Quinn is moping...

A guy like Doan was needed but not at expense of Peterka

[DarthEbriate]

5 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

And braught in Jeff Skinner! 😀

Don't look now, but he has as many goals as the Sabres team.

8 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Trading Peterka was a mistake on secondary scoring front... double whammy because Quinn is moping...

A guy like Doan was needed but not at expense of Peterka

Doan was needed to replace Quinn.

Peterka's absence could easily be managed if Benson returns to health with a vengeance and plays to his potential (entirely possible this very season).

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Trading Peterka was a mistake on secondary scoring front... double whammy because Quinn is moping...

A guy like Doan was needed but not at expense of Peterka

We didn't trade Peterka for Doan though. We traded him for Doan and Kesselring 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Trading Peterka was a mistake on secondary scoring front... double whammy because Quinn is moping...

A guy like Doan was needed but not at expense of Peterka

I like Doan but we should have guys like Doan in our farm system.   We spent time developing Peterka, and he turns out better than Quinn or Cozens, and now he is gone simply because he was smart enough to want out.   At least they got Kesselring and hopefully he really is a top 4.  

All this obsession with Adams working on the bottom 6 and 4th line is a problem.  Fix the talent on the top 6.  They overrate their young players.   They are now counting on Quinn/Benson/Kulich to emerge - that is not a sign off a playoff ready team.   

Their best forward is Thompson and he plays out of position because they don't have good centers.  Norris was a gamble that is probably going to fail.  

The next best is Tuch and he looks lost.  He is coming off his best season and has no contract.   He appears torn between his internal desire to play at home and his real knowledge of how bad of a decision that will be for his career.  

Can Zucker can play top 6 on Florida, Vegas, Avs?   No. 

Zucker is a valuable guy, a middle 6 that can move up if needed, and we need his vet savvy, but he and McLeod are 3rd line players.  

Lyon is playing well but pretty soon he will buckle under all the games, all the losing, and the pressure of playing in a rotten culture.  

Adams is over his head, but Terry likes him and trusts him.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Pimlach

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I like Doan but we should have guys like Doan in our farm system.   We spent time developing Peterka, and he turns out better than Quinn or Cozens, and now he is gone simply because he was smart enough to want out.   At least they got Kesselring and hopefully he really is a top 4.  

All this obsession with Adams working on the bottom 6 and 4th line is a problem.  Fix the talent on the top 6.  They overrate their young players.   They are now counting on Quinn/Benson/Kulich to emerge - that is not a sign off a playoff ready team.   

Their best forward is Thompson and he plays put of position because they don't have good centers.  Norris was a gamble that is probably going to fail.  

The next best is Tuch and he looks lost.  He is coming off his best season and has no contract.   He appears torn between his internal desire to play at home and his real knowledge of how bad of a decision that will be for his career.  

Can Zucker can play top 6 on Florida, Vegas, Avs?   No. 

Zucker is a valuable guy, a middle 6 that can move up if needed, and we need his vet savvy, but he and McLeod are 3rd line players.  

Lyon is playing well but pretty soon he will buckle under all the games, all the losing, and the pressure of playing in a rotten culture.  

Adams is over his head, but Terry likes him and trusts him.  

Realize we like to point out Adams obsession with tinkering at the edges, but he has actually made changes higher up the ladder.  Mittelstadt (top 6) out for Byram (top pair); Cozens (top 6) out for Norris (top line); Peterka (top line) out for Kesselring (top 4).  Zucker brought in as a FA (top 9 many teams, top 6 here).  Savoie (prospect) out for McLeod (top 9 on many teams, top 6 here).

It's not that he doesn't address needs higher up in the lineup; it's that he's not good at addressing them and the whole is less than the sum of the parts.  He also never is the one sending out multiple parts for the best player in the deal.  They have prospects that could be NHLers that will never get legit looks in Buffalo because there isn't room for that many kids getting brought in at the same time making the team even younger.

Murray also missed on many of his swings; but at least he was pretty much looking to land the best player in any particular deal.  Don't know if it's because Pegula won't let him bring in salary or he simply doesn't know how to put together a package a rival GM would accept for a top player or an offer a top FA would accept; but he never looks for that deal that brings the Sabres the clearly best player in the deal.  Yes, Norris is clearly better than Cozens; and he demonstrated that in 2 of the 4 games he's played for the Sabres.  Sadly, getting 4 games when the other guy is playing in 30+ skews that one the wrong way too.

Am ready for this entire crew making decisions to get sent packing (still expect Karmonos and the guy he brought in could be good, but we don't really get to see it) and a new crew brought in.  But they need to be allowed to take an occassional swing for the fences or we'll be stuck where we are again.  This team isn't too far off if the coaching and a few spots are upgraded.  Make this current nightmare end and don't take an intentional step back while doing so.

[eman]

41 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Realize we like to point out Adams obsession with tinkering at the edges, but he has actually made changes higher up the ladder.  Mittelstadt (top 6) out for Byram (top pair); Cozens (top 6) out for Norris (top line); Peterka (top line) out for Kesselring (top 4).  Zucker brought in as a FA (top 9 many teams, top 6 here).  Savoie (prospect) out for McLeod (top 9 on many teams, top 6 here).

It's not that he doesn't address needs higher up in the lineup; it's that he's not good at addressing them and the whole is less than the sum of the parts.  He also never is the one sending out multiple parts for the best player in the deal.  They have prospects that could be NHLers that will never get legit looks in Buffalo because there isn't room for that many kids getting brought in at the same time making the team even younger.

Murray also missed on many of his swings; but at least he was pretty much looking to land the best player in any particular deal.  Don't know if it's because Pegula won't let him bring in salary or he simply doesn't know how to put together a package a rival GM would accept for a top player or an offer a top FA would accept; but he never looks for that deal that brings the Sabres the clearly best player in the deal.  Yes, Norris is clearly better than Cozens; and he demonstrated that in 2 of the 4 games he's played for the Sabres.  Sadly, getting 4 games when the other guy is playing in 30+ skews that one the wrong way too.

Am ready for this entire crew making decisions to get sent packing (still expect Karmonos and the guy he brought in could be good, but we don't really get to see it) and a new crew brought in.  But they need to be allowed to take an occassional swing for the fences or we'll be stuck where we are again.  This team isn't too far off if the coaching and a few spots are upgraded.  Make this current nightmare end and don't take an intentional step back while doing so.

You have to be sure "the upgrades" don't have "no movement clauses" with BUFFALO on it. I'm betting, most anyone with some kind of seniority will have this. (can't blame them either. It is the one "not so secret" no one likes to talk about.)

 

Edited 2 hours ago by eman

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

From what I’ve seen from San Jose, they look already ahead of Buffalo.

They've drafted better than us. 

Celebrini, Dickinson, Chernysov, Smith, Musty, Bystedt, Eklund. 

That's pretty dang good. Now they have Misa too.

[Huckleberry]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They've drafted better than us. 

Celebrini, Dickinson, Chernysov, Smith, Musty, Bystedt, Eklund. 

That's pretty dang good. Now they have Misa too.

Would be nice trade partner for Owen power I suppose if we don't wait too long.

[DarthEbriate]

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Would be nice trade partner for Owen power I suppose if we don't wait too long.

San Jose can remake their blue line next offseason (3 players under contract and 1 RFA for next season). They'll have $54M available to spend. 

But, they watch the tape. Do they want to spend $8M on Power or use that money for other resources? Do they think Power is a D1/PP1?

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

San Jose can remake their blue line next offseason (3 players under contract and 1 RFA for next season). They'll have $54M available to spend. 

But, they watch the tape. Do they want to spend $8M on Power or use that money for other resources? Do they think Power is a D1/PP1?

They have Dickinson now, he's basically Power but probably better. No need to trade for Owen. They can just wait a couple years because everyone knows they're young... although they have more games played than the Sabres.

[Huckleberry]

38 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

San Jose can remake their blue line next offseason (3 players under contract and 1 RFA for next season). They'll have $54M available to spend. 

But, they watch the tape. Do they want to spend $8M on Power or use that money for other resources? Do they think Power is a D1/PP1?

That 54 mill goes down real fast when you pay  5 guys 8 mill a year , which they probably will have to do.

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Realize we like to point out Adams obsession with tinkering at the edges, but he has actually made changes higher up the ladder.  Mittelstadt (top 6) out for Byram (top pair); Cozens (top 6) out for Norris (top line); Peterka (top line) out for Kesselring (top 4).  Zucker brought in as a FA (top 9 many teams, top 6 here).  Savoie (prospect) out for McLeod (top 9 on many teams, top 6 here).

It's not that he doesn't address needs higher up in the lineup; it's that he's not good at addressing them and the whole is less than the sum of the parts.  He also never is the one sending out multiple parts for the best player in the deal.  They have prospects that could be NHLers that will never get legit looks in Buffalo because there isn't room for that many kids getting brought in at the same time making the team even younger.

Murray also missed on many of his swings; but at least he was pretty much looking to land the best player in any particular deal.  Don't know if it's because Pegula won't let him bring in salary or he simply doesn't know how to put together a package a rival GM would accept for a top player or an offer a top FA would accept; but he never looks for that deal that brings the Sabres the clearly best player in the deal.  Yes, Norris is clearly better than Cozens; and he demonstrated that in 2 of the 4 games he's played for the Sabres.  Sadly, getting 4 games when the other guy is playing in 30+ skews that one the wrong way too.

Am ready for this entire crew making decisions to get sent packing (still expect Karmonos and the guy he brought in could be good, but we don't really get to see it) and a new crew brought in.  But they need to be allowed to take an occassional swing for the fences or we'll be stuck where we are again.  This team isn't too far off if the coaching and a few spots are upgraded.  Make this current nightmare end and don't take an intentional step back while doing so.

This is a pretty small list for taking over a last place team five years ago but lets look at it.

Mitts for Byram weakened the center spline and improved the defense.  He got the better player but he took another season to address the hole at center by adding McLeod.   McLeod was a good trade for Savoie. 

Cozen for Norris is not working so far, and we have an even bigger contract to swallow.  Plus we gave up a 2nd rounder.  

Peterka for Kesselring is TBD  - and he didn't add to the top 6, and he is counting on Benson/Quinn/Kulich.  If Benson becomes a 25-30 goal player then ok, but we had both of them at one time and we didn't have to trade Peterka.  

Zucker was probably his best FA pick up.  

Add it up.   His work on the top of the roster does not show any improvement in the W/L column.  

Edited 21 minutes ago by Pimlach