Chris Johnston: The Sabres yearly struggles are "a concern at the league level"

[LabattBlue]

5 hours ago, SwampD said:

I just wonder how much (if at all) TP’s influence spills over to coaching. The fact that Ruff answers directly to him is a concern.

Forget about talent on the ice, the biggest gap with the rest of the league might actually be with the talent behind the bench.

Until that gets addressed, I think the Sabres will continue to underperform.

Ruff reports directly to Pegula?

[SwampD]

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Ruff reports directly to Pegula?

That is my understanding. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

[Weave]

8 hours ago, SwampD said:

That is my understanding. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

I assume the flat management structure hasn’t changed.

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, SwampD said:

That is my understanding. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Buffalosabres.com does not show actuall reporting structure.  No doubt that Terry hired Lindy so your understanding is probably correct.  
 

It shows Jarmo as Senior Advisor, but to who?  It should be Adams.  

[Carmel Corn]

14 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Ruff reports directly to Pegula?

 

10 hours ago, SwampD said:

That is my understanding. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Seems like a logical assumption….since that is how the Bills are supposedly structured (McDermott direct to Pegula).

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I assume the flat management structure hasn’t changed.

As would I.

I'm sure there are lots of times when Adams is speaking directly to Ruff -- without Pegula's involvement. But I don't view that as a reporting line.

[JP51]

13 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

As would I.

I'm sure there are lots of times when Adams is speaking directly to Ruff -- without Pegula's involvement. But I don't view that as a reporting line.

I agree... I also think that the fact there is not a discernable structure and we even have to speculate... (Like Literally, I have no idea what the reporting lines are... but it seems all roads go thru Pegula... ) speaks to the disorganization of the FO... 

[mjd1001]

To me I think it works something like this.. 

Ruff and Adams talk to each other frequently when Terry isn't around. But whenever Terry wants to show up... Then everyone has to talk to him and go through him. 

Ruff May report to Adams, but if Terry gives Lindy a call, then Lindy has to tell Terry everything he wants before Adams hears it.

[Forecheck]

On 7/19/2025 at 7:55 AM, Pimlach said:

One of the best hockey markets in the US is in big trouble and the problem 100% points to one person.  That Shanahan rumor, if true, tells you exactly what the problem is with this team. 

Every off season is the same, we lose better players than we gain.  No players in their prime will come here.  

I could rant about the past 14 years, but it’s useless   I am not attending any hockey game in Buffalo this year for the first time EVER.  

 

Glad to see you’ve joined the club Punch. I’ve been there for 4 or 5 years now. No more tickets. You won’t regret it for a second. 

[JustOutsideChicago]

Rolling it back with the same coaching staff speaks volumes. Or is Adams handcuffed by palm trees and taxes for them too?

[Pimlach]

25 minutes ago, JustOutsideChicago said:

Rolling it back with the same coaching staff speaks volumes. Or is Adams handcuffed by palm trees and taxes for them too?

Adam’s supports Appert.  Terry supports Ruff.  Terry does not like paying people when they are on contract. 
 

Rumor has it they could not land assistant coaches that they wanted.  
 

Edited Tuesday at 02:18 AM by Pimlach

[spndnchz]

Meh 

[Archie Lee]

On 7/21/2025 at 5:29 AM, Weave said:

I assume the flat management structure hasn’t changed.

I would have thought the flat mgmt structure ended when Krueger left. It seemed with Adams and Granato, that it was a pretty standard GM/HC dynamic and a typical hierarchy. Ruff’s stature and his reported relationship with Pegula, probably means things have now changed back a bit.

I don’t have any evidence, but the last couple of times that Adams has been asked in a press conference about Ruff’s presence and influence, I’ve sensed less than whole-hearted enthusiasm on Adams’s part. I don't think Ruff was Adams’s pick. I realize that for many fans (most?), Pegula wanting Ruff saved us from Adams’s choice of Appert. But it all just speaks to a very messed up situation. More and more it is just obvious that Pegula got lucky with the Bills and that our only real hope is that he gets lucky when he picks the next Sabre GM. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I would have thought the flat mgmt structure ended when Krueger left. It seemed with Adams and Granato, that it was a pretty standard GM/HC dynamic and a typical hierarchy. Ruff’s stature and his reported relationship with Pegula, probably means things have now changed back a bit.

I don’t have any evidence, but the last couple of times that Adams has been asked in a press conference about Ruff’s presence and influence, I’ve sensed less than whole-hearted enthusiasm on Adams’s part. I don't think Ruff was Adams’s pick. I realize that for many fans (most?), Pegula wanting Ruff saved us from Adams’s choice of Appert. But it all just speaks to a very messed up situation. More and more it is just obvious that Pegula got lucky with the Bills and that our only real hope is that he gets lucky when he picks the next Sabre GM. 

When you read these accounts of how the operation functions or may not function it just demonstrates how this is such a third-rate operation. There is little clear line of authority or even internal communication system. The lack of organizational structure is so obvious that whether one is talking about a sports franchise or any enterprise for that matter, the outcome is going result in failure. 

This is a Pegula designed organization. The hiring of a GM had no order or process to it other than it was an owner hiring. To say the least he made an odd selection. The same goes for the hiring of Ruff to be the HC. There was no genuine coaching search. The hiring process was a charade that was obvious to everyone. It was a nostalgic hiring by the inscrutable owner. (I'm not debating the issue whether Ruff was a good hire or not. I'm focusing on the fraudulent process.)

If you ask me what is the role and influence of Karmonos, Jarmo and even Ruff relative to the GM, my response is I don't know? There seems to be no clear lines of authority. On top of that layer of confusion is an owner who presides over this hollow structure and interjects his thoughts whenever he desires to.  For him, it's just about what he wants to do i.e. acting on his whimsical thoughts. 

Any franchise in any sport that is operated in the same disorderly way the Sabres are run is going to be a failure. This is a Terry Pegula failed production. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

I would have thought the flat mgmt structure ended when Krueger left. It seemed with Adams and Granato, that it was a pretty standard GM/HC dynamic and a typical hierarchy. Ruff’s stature and his reported relationship with Pegula, probably means things have now changed back a bit.

I don’t have any evidence, but the last couple of times that Adams has been asked in a press conference about Ruff’s presence and influence, I’ve sensed less than whole-hearted enthusiasm on Adams’s part. I don't think Ruff was Adams’s pick. I realize that for many fans (most?), Pegula wanting Ruff saved us from Adams’s choice of Appert. But it all just speaks to a very messed up situation. More and more it is just obvious that Pegula got lucky with the Bills and that our only real hope is that he gets lucky when he picks the next Sabre GM. 

If Pegula had any brains at all he would fire Adams and make Jarmo GM with Karmanos AGM and Jerry Forton as UE

[That Aud Smell]

34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Pegula had any brains at all he would fire Adams and make Jarmo GM with Karmanos AGM and Jerry Forton as UE

UE?

(Krupp?)

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

UE?

(Krupp?)

Unemployed 

[MISabresFan]

On 7/20/2025 at 10:35 PM, SwampD said:

That is my understanding. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Curious minds want to know, who do you know to get that intel?  You have someone on inside?

[Rip Titwide]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If Pegula had any brains at all he would fire Adams and make Jarmo GM with Karmanos AGM and Jerry Forton as UE

Totally agree. There was one thing on that Sabres embedded draft edition that struck me. Karmanos was the one who seemed very critical of everybody’s take on the first round pick, at least the clip that was shown. He seemed to have a vision of what should be and was actually holding his colleague’s feet to the fire, despite the fact that he’s essentially the one heading up the farm team. Moreover, his moves for Rochester are superior in team building. The current structure is baffling to say the least. 

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

they could push Pegula to sell the team ... personally I don't believe the Sabres in WNY are salvageable.   i don't see how it can work.  and I do not see another rich guy with WNY ties who will buy it.   the franchise burned through Golisano and Pegula, I don't see who is next

players don't want to be there.  period.   you can "Mario Williams" them and throw a pile of $$ at them, but that will get you 4 or 5 good players.  then the money runs out.   

[JohnC]

34 minutes ago, OrangeSeatVertigo said:

they could push Pegula to sell the team ... personally I don't believe the Sabres in WNY are salvageable.   i don't see how it can work.  and I do not see another rich guy with WNY ties who will buy it.   the franchise burned through Golisano and Pegula, I don't see who is next

players don't want to be there.  period.   you can "Mario Williams" them and throw a pile of $$ at them, but that will get you 4 or 5 good players.  then the money runs out.   

I have a dramatically different  take on the area hockey market. It is a fertile hockey market that has been laid to waste by an owner who has crushed its potential due to hideous incompetency. The fan base has steadily been shrinking because of his foolish stewardship for a generation. Fans who are unwilling to spend money on a lackluster team/product are the ones who are showing good judgment.

[JP51]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I have a dramatically different  take on the area hockey market. It is a fertile hockey market that has been laid to waste by an owner who has crushed its potential due to hideous incompetency. The fan base has steadily been shrinking because of his foolish stewardship for a generation. Fans who are unwilling to spend money on a lackluster team/product are the ones who are showing good judgment.

Was listening to Brad May say the same thing... players would love to come here if ownership hadnt created the pit of Misery... Dilly Dilly 

[LTS]

On 7/20/2025 at 12:46 PM, JohnC said:

The reason why the wallets in the area are not opened for the Sabres is because the product has consistently been inadequate. Compare that to the Bils and the Bandits where the wallets are opened and the seats are filled? If you count southern Ontario and the surrounding region as part of the hockey market, then the market is wider than many people portray. 

Of course that's the case.  But if the Bandits and Bills were not good things would change.  There's also a different dynamic where Bills fans only have a handful of games to attend in any given year so it becomes more of an event.

But the point is that viewing percentage can lead to incorrect analysis of actual value given that the number of actual people showing interest by watching is lower.

On 7/20/2025 at 1:38 PM, thewookie1 said:

The thing is Buffalo helps with the American average and viewership percentages.

Even with a smaller real number we create a legitimate percentage booster when kept at a macro level.

It does if it's not weighted when they do it in aggregate.  Of course this is the kind of stuff that gets done by marketing, etc. to spin a narrative.

On 7/20/2025 at 2:05 PM, KC Scouts said:

So then by extrapolation our NFL viewership numbers are insignificant too.....Correct?

They could be. I don't know them. I'm not talking football either.

On 7/20/2025 at 2:46 PM, Pimlach said:

Good info @LTS.   I don't know if the hockey ratings are straight percentages but a quick Google told me that TV ratings are expressed as a percent of the population (1.0 is 1%) so it is a reasonable assumption to say yes to that question.  

The second part - factoring the cost of living and average amount spent on entertainment is beyond the scope I am willing to go.  

First part - As you know "Buffalo Metro" does not include the portion of Southern Ontario that comes to their Metro area regularly, attends Bills and Sabres games, and spends money.   This is an unfortunate disadvantage and it makes their scores lower than the reality of the actual situation.  

So is your bottom line that the NHL should not care about Buffalo and they are not a viable market?  

What will happen in Salt Lake City if they go even 4 straight years of no playoffs?  The league would hate that after they failed in Phoenix.  

I am not saying the NHL should not care about Buffalo.  I am merely saying that viewing percentages can demonstrate the relative interest to the population in any given market but that it cannot be used to compare market to market as the actual numbers can vary widely.

Yes, Southern Ontario is likely not included in these numbers but it does not matter when measuring nationally televised, non-Buffalo Sabres events.  In this case we are talking about a hockey event that did not include the team in the market.  As such it's reasonable to assume some percentage (likely a high percentage) would have watched those games whether the Sabres were in Buffalo or not.  

The statistic in question was not a measurement of viewership of Buffalo Sabres games.  It was a measure of interest in a nationally televised game. It stands to reason that the Florida markets were at the top as their team was in the game.  It's a testament to Buffalo that so many are interested in the games.  However, percentages don't translate directly to spend.  Actual people spend actual dollars.

If you use just a percentage then you could have a town of 100 people who all love hockey and tuned in.  Do you think the NHL cares about those 100 people just because their viewership was 100%?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Of course that's the case.  But if the Bandits and Bills were not good things would change.  There's also a different dynamic where Bills fans only have a handful of games to attend in any given year so it becomes more of an event.

 

There was a period of time during the Wilson ownership of the Bills where the attendance took a steep drop because there was a prolonged period where even ardent fans recognized that the franchise was not considered to be a serious franchise. That malaise happens not when there is a year or two downslide but when it is extended and when there is a belief that the ownership is not seriously invested in winning. To me, that malaise has happened during the extended tenure of the owner of the Sabres. The dichotomy between the football and hockey franchise with respect to how the fan base responds is noticeable to me. The football's fanbase is as rabid as ever while the hockey fanbase has steadily eroded. You would never see any fanbase take over the home field in football while it has happened when Toronto takes the ice against Buffalo in our own arena.