Sabres Trade JJ Peterka to Utah for Defenseman Michael Kesselring and Forward Josh Doan

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

 

I just don’t think it’s Terry’s unwillingness to spend.  
 

I continue to believe the hatred these guys have of taxes across all 4 major sports is grossly underestimated.   
 

KA wasn’t wrong.  You just can’t say it out loud.  
 

You need to prop up why you want to spend the next 7-8 years of your life in Buffalo.  
 

Starting with the fans.  There will be no better city in America to win a major championship right now than Buffalo.  Not one.  

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. The Sabres have become a ghetto franchise scorned by many players because of its own systematic malfeasance in operating a franchise. Players are competitive and want to win. It's not the total reason why they want to go to a particular franchise but it is a factor. I would also say that the majority of players in all sports have homes that are not in the city that they play in. You can't hide this franchise's record. It's known to all. 

[shrader]

28 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

 

I just don’t think it’s Terry’s unwillingness to spend.  
 

I continue to believe the hatred these guys have of taxes across all 4 major sports is grossly underestimated.   
 

KA wasn’t wrong.  You just can’t say it out loud.  
 

You need to prop up why you want to spend the next 7-8 years of your life in Buffalo.  
 

Starting with the fans.  There will be no better city in America to win a major championship right now than Buffalo.  Not one.  

Marchand flat out said it prior to free agency. If he’s offered the same thing from a high tax team and a low tax team, he’s taking the lower tax. It’s one of many factors, but it does matter. Now, in his case, he was fortunate that the winning and the tax lined up, but it’s not going to work that way for everyone. 
 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/countdown-to-free-agent-frenzy-will-brad-marchand-stay-put-with-the-florida-panthers-1.2318905

[Second Line Center]

58 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. The Sabres have become a ghetto franchise scorned by many players because of its own systematic malfeasance in operating a franchise. Players are competitive and want to win. It's not the total reason why they want to go to a particular franchise but it is a factor. I would also say that the majority of players in all sports have homes that are not in the city that they play in. You can't hide this franchise's record. It's known to all. 

 

Sure.  I didn’t say it’s THE reason.  Just a major one.  
 

They want to win, yes but I bet they all tell you deep down they know every year there are only a few teams that can win the Cup - money comes first with a shot at a Cup very close 2nd.  
 

You're right tho they definitely do not want to go to a dysfunctional franchise.  It could be located in a tax free oasis if they are terrible they’ll look to go somewhere else.  
 

They also get taxed in the state they play in.  They may be able to like elsewhere where but it doesn’t matter.  Plus, they do have to live in the city area they play for at minimum 6 months a year.  
 

And that’s their home all year if they have families.  
 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:40 AM by Second Line Center

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I hope that is the case. Very often the issue isn't necessarily how much you spend as it is how you spend it. 

Well obviously but that’s two different arguments.

[tom webster]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

For me, it’s all about the spend after Byram.

Realistically, they are going to have enough money to acquire a player after he’s signed, and probably enough to acquire a good player. It’s going to be closer to $5 or $6M than $2 or $3M.

I’m skeptical they are going to use that money. I think they will say the market dried up or the prices were too high, when the fact of the matter is they let the market dry up and they decided the prices were too high.

Once again, unrealized opportunity.

I hope I’m wrong.

I think between Byram and Timmins you are looking at a minimum of $10M. If they trade Byram I think the salary returned will be close to what he would get awarded but time will tell.

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I think between Byram and Timmins you are looking at a minimum of $10M. If they trade Byram I think the salary returned will be close to what he would get awarded but time will tell.

Maybe you have a better handle on it than me, but I’m kinda looking at Byram 8 Timmins 2 as a worst-case scenario.

Once I read that injuries can be used as evidence in the hearing, that popped a pretty big hole in either arbitration case for me.

And we’re talking guys with career highs of 39 and 15 points.

Now that may change if either signs for term.

Do you see that as a possibility with Byram?

Edited Tuesday at 01:53 AM by dudacek

[Taro T]

37 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I think between Byram and Timmins you are looking at a minimum of $10M. If they trade Byram I think the salary returned will be close to what he would get awarded but time will tell.

See, that's the thing, IF Byram is traded (and persoanally expect that to be less likely by the day, but it is still realistically possible) really expect him to be traded for a package that returns about $6MM worth of salary.  Except for McLeod, they don't make trades where they get the best player.  (Want to say there was one other small one that the Sabres got the best player, but darned if it's coming to mind right now.)

So, $6MM, $1.5-2MM, & $1.5-2MM of which only $0.5-1MM counts against the cap initially though as injuries hit, they'll burn that back.  So, somewhere a bit above $3.5MM in space.  If Byram gets an $8MM award and they keep him, they're looking at ~$2MM in cap.  So, the pointless buying out of Skinner last year lets them appear to be spending to the cap on players this year.  (Technically they will be close, but they'd be well over $6MM below the cap without that hit.)

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

See, that's the thing, IF Byram is traded (and persoanally expect that to be less likely by the day, but it is still realistically possible) really expect him to be traded for a package that returns about $6MM worth of salary.  Except for McLeod, they don't make trades where they get the best player.  (Want to say there was one other small one that the Sabres got the best player, but darned if it's coming to mind right now.)

So, $6MM, $1.5-2MM, & $1.5-2MM of which only $0.5-1MM counts against the cap initially though as injuries hit, they'll burn that back.  So, somewhere a bit above $3.5MM in space.  If Byram gets an $8MM award and they keep him, they're looking at ~$2MM in cap.  So, the pointless buying out of Skinner last year lets them appear to be spending to the cap on players this year.  (Technically they will be close, but they'd be well over $6MM below the cap without that hit.)

Greenway?

[ska-T Palmtown]

Too many folks mentioned it for me to go and find all the quotes - but I don't buy the "Sabres are losing money" bit for one single second.

I've posted it before, but many sources (CNBC, Forbes, etc) all put the 2023/24 Sabres (last year of data) as cashflow positive. One estimated a net operating profit of over $13M and another had their EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization) of $15.8M. The two seem to jive given the franchise has no real debt and if the owner is responsible for maintenance of the stadium, I presume they get to depreciate that asset on the business taxes.

The talk of someone worth north of $7B scrimping on $5M for his hobby team just does not sound realistic to me. That same year the Bills had a net operating income of over $100M. Even just Pegula Sports or whatever would view the total of the teams. Sure, no one likes losing money (which he is not), but with all his proclaimed love for hockey, etc etc - it does not pass the sniff test. Could he be wary of big name free agents after some pretty spectacular swings and misses? Sure. Isn't the joke around the league that bad decisions happen on July 1?

There is also very little logic to the new Bills stadium argument. Again, this is a business, not a person. With steady operating income over $100M, there is no way T-Pegs is not financing a majority of the construction costs. Why? If you had $7B in business assets that probably give you a consistent return in excess of 10% per year - would you cash out a sizeable chunk of that money to avoid a 6% (guessing) construction loan? Heck no. I bet even with a $1B loan against the stadium, the Bills remain cash flow positive. The $1B he got from selling 20% ... he did not use that for the stadium, lol - he invested it somewhere to get more in annual returns than the cost of the loan. Also, some portion of that loan has got to be helping the bottom line on the team's taxes.

Cash poor is a total myth that we, the fanbase, have made up and internalized to ease our suffering. T-Pegs could get a low-interest $1B loan faster than most people on this board could a $30k loan to buy a car.

[PromoTheRobot]

By the time Byram and Timmins get their arbitration awards, and Levi is signed, the Sabres will have less than $4MM in cap left. Maybe they sign a middle 6 type free agent forward. Then the complaint will shift from "why aren't we spending to the cap?" to "why are we spending our cap on these guys?"

[LabattBlue]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Then the complaint will shift from "why aren't we spending to the cap?" to "why are we spending our cap on these guys?"

You know what is worse than the complaints about the GM?  Superfans crying about the complainers.   
 

You are no different from anyone else here…beating a dead horse   Just a different horse.

 

[ponokasabre]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

By the time Byram and Timmins get their arbitration awards, and Levi is signed, the Sabres will have less than $4MM in cap left. Maybe they sign a middle 6 type free agent forward. Then the complaint will shift from "why aren't we spending to the cap?" to "why are we spending our cap on these guys?"

Id take that though, people need to see this team be at the cap, just to let the buttholes of an entire fanbase unclench a bit

Whatever happens with Byram, we cant be done, we have to do at least one more add

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/series-buffalo-sabres-offseason-recap/19e6b936c937b3f3f32ec2a0

Quote

The Sabres shipped off one of their best young offensive talents JJ Peterka in a puzzling trade with the Utah Mammoth. This came reportedly after Peterka did not wish to play in Buffalo anymore due to the losing culture. This keeps the Buffalo track record going of drafting talented players just to move them before they hit their primes. 

Quote

Buffalo has not made the playoffs since 2011. It will be curious to see where the squad goes from here as the club continues to lack a clear direction. 

This franchise has turned into a steaming giant pile of horse manure.

[Huckleberry]

Look if I'm manager I approach every player like this.

This Is Dhalin, Top 5 D in NHL, took a team friendly deal.   He will be your captain.   Below him we got Power locked up, he is in the top 20.
 

Now here comes Byram into play, he is not top 20, but In some ways he fits Dhalin, we now have Kesserling, who can be with Power for , but also can fit Dhalin.
Adams is not doing much wrong here.  Also a good fith wiht Power was johnson I believe.

So Byram take the 7 mill deal, or go to the palm trees please 😛

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Look if I'm manager I approach every player like this.

This Is Dhalin, Top 5 D in NHL, took a team friendly deal.   He will be your captain.   Below him we got Power locked up, he is in the top 20.
 

Now here comes Byram into play, he is not top 20, but In some ways he fits Dhalin, we now have Kesserling, who can be with Power for , but also can fit Dhalin.
Adams is not doing much wrong here.  Also a good fith wiht Power was johnson I believe.

So Byram take the 7 mill deal, or go to the palm trees please 😛

You think Power is a top 20 D in the NHL?  Not even in scoring.  When you add defensive play he's not in the top 100.  Last season he had 7g 33a, good for 29th in the NHL in scoring by a D.  Byram had 7g and 31a for 36th.  Power had 6 PP points to Byram's 2, meaning that Byram actually outscored Power at EV with 7g to 6 and 29a to 28.  

The Athletics estimated he gave the Sabres about 4.7 mill worth in value and that was entirely offense.   If this continues, he is a $3.7 mill drag on the Sabres cap.  They state that Byram gave the Sabres 5.3 mill worth of value.  They have Power's 5 on 5 defense as a -10 putting him in the bottom 27% of all NHL D.  Byram at only -1 putting him in the middle of NHL D.  

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6048291/2025/03/09/nhl-player-cards-atlantic/

As I have said many times, for this defense to improve one of Power or Byram need to go.  Adams (I think he is making the wrong choice as usual) looks to want to trade Byram.  I believe Byram is the better player and should be anchoring the 2nd pair.  He is just as good offensively, he actually hits people on occasion, and is better defensively (but that isn't saying much.  I think Adams would get more for Power (only because of his draft pedigree) and be able to get out from under that terrible contract.  

[Trettioåtta]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You think Power is a top 20 D in the NHL?  Not even in scoring.  When you add defensive play he's not in the top 100.  Last season he had 7g 33a, good for 29th in the NHL in scoring by a D.  Byram had 7g and 31a for 36th.  Power had 6 PP points to Byram's 2, meaning that Byram actually outscored Power at EV with 7g to 6 and 29a to 28.  

The Athletics estimated he gave the Sabres about 4.7 mill worth in value and that was entirely offense.   If this continues, he is a $3.7 mill drag on the Sabres cap.  They state that Byram gave the Sabres 5.3 mill worth of value.  They have Power's 5 on 5 defense as a -10 putting him in the bottom 27% of all NHL D.  Byram at only -1 putting him in the middle of NHL D.  

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6048291/2025/03/09/nhl-player-cards-atlantic/

As I have said many times, for this defense to improve one of Power or Byram need to go.  Adams (I think he is making the wrong choice as usual) looks to want to trade Byram.  I believe Byram is the better player and should be anchoring the 2nd pair.  He is just as good offensively, he actually hits people on occasion, and is better defensively (but that isn't saying much.  I think Adams would get more for Power (only because of his draft pedigree) and be able to get out from under that terrible contract.  

Not defending the contract, but Power is only 22. Most defenceman haven't even made the show regularly by then. The Sabres need to stop expecting 18-23 year olds to step up and fill sizeable holes in the line up. Power should have been penciled in for the third line with sheltered minutes whilst he got to grips with the NHL. Instead he was elevated to a 2nd NHL D man and epxected to perform like one.

Power is absolutely the right mold of player for us to sell low on, and in two years be anchoring a top pairing on a contending team

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Trettioåtta said:

Not defending the contract, but Power is only 22. Most defenceman haven't even made the show regularly by then. The Sabres need to stop expecting 18-23 year olds to step up and fill sizeable holes in the line up. Power should have been penciled in for the third line with sheltered minutes whilst he got to grips with the NHL. Instead he was elevated to a 2nd NHL D man and epxected to perform like one.

Power is absolutely the right mold of player for us to sell low on, and in two years be anchoring a top pairing on a contending team

 

While I agree that is certainly possible with Power, the same can be said for Byram who is only 23.  The biggest issue with Power is that he will never be an elite D in the NHL because of his refusal to engage physically, and I don’t see that ever changing.  He is also positionally terrible.  He isn’t on the O level of a Karlsson, Makar or Quinn Hughes to make up for the lack of solid D. IMHO he will never be more that a 2nd pair D and I’d rather have Byram for that job. 

Don’t forget he’s already played 242 NHL games. He are getting close to the point that he is what he is.  
 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[Turbo44]

The more I study the analytics of this trade, the more I think it could end up being like the McLeod trade. The two guys we got really have limited NHL exposure but very good analytics. Peterka is lethal offensively but unless he grasps playing D, he’ll be a skinner type - flashy stats but is just good enough to help you lose. 
hopefully we add another forward. Would love signing Byram (even for the two year arbitration amount) and trading futures for a Rust type

[Slack_in_MA]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

While I agree that is certainly possible with Power, the same can be said for Byram who is only 23.  The biggest issue with Power is that he will never be an elite D in the NHL because of his refusal to engage physically, and I don’t see that ever changing.  He is also positionally terrible.  He isn’t on the O level of a Karlsson, Makar or Quinn Hughes to make up for the lack of solid D. IMHO he will never be more that a 2nd pair D and I’d rather have Byram for that job. 

Don’t forget he’s already played 242 NHL games. He are getting close to the point that he is what he is.  
 

 

It baffles me to this day that he went 1OA. Was that draft class that weak?

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

It baffles me to this day that he went 1OA. Was that draft class that weak?

Yes.  Lots of solid players, especially forwards in the top 10 but no real stars and certainly no franchise players. Eklund, Johnson and Guenther might end up of the top forwards from the class unless Bernier figures it out.  Hughes and Power are 40 pt D but neither is good defensively.

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

It baffles me to this day that he went 1OA. Was that draft class that weak?

William. Eklund.

Also he wasn't even the best defender in that class. Luke Hughes was that draft and Mason McTavish too but the true top guy in that class was and impo is Eklund. But he wasn't 6'6" and you can't teach size! And defensemen that tall are rare! (Buffalo has 4 now, Power, Mrtka, Bedkowski, Kleber)

The Sabres bought the hype, didn't value the underlying traits enough, and decided he was the best player even though he's a passive player. 

[LGR4GM]

You know what's really hilarious? William Eklund is a playmaking lw with some grit... Buffalo needs a playmaking lw with some grit.

[Turbo44]

Let’s give power a real d partner this year and see what happens. He’s still young and it took Dahlin a while too. Granted he’s never going to use his size like we want but hopefully his d-zone awareness can improve with a partners who isn’t hideous 

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Let’s give power a real d partner this year and see what happens. He’s still young and it took Dahlin a while too. Granted he’s never going to use his size like we want but hopefully his d-zone awareness can improve with a partners who isn’t hideous 

No it didn't. It simply took Krueger going away. 

[Brawndo]

Evolving Hockey is cited as a source for The Athletic Player Cards. 
 

Here is the data from EV’s Website as well as Hockey Viz. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Brawndo