Goal Scoring. How Will Sabres Increase Number Of Goals Scored?

[PASabreFan]

31 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Listening to Karmanos the other day, he was just the latest Sabre exec I hear hammering on about needing players to get to the inside.

Granato talked about it all the time as his tenure wound down. Adams talked about in the season’s aftermath.

Watching the absolute lack of “skill” goals in the playoffs only emphasizes it more.

They know what needs to be done. The question is can they do it.

Granato talked about it. The players didn't do it. Either they can't do it or won't do it. If they can't do it, Adams needs to act. If they won't do it, either Adams needs to act or Lindy needs to coach it into them.

I am bating with weighted breath to see how Lindy responds to players who won't do what he says.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Granato talked about it. The players didn't do it. Either they can't do it or won't do it. If they can't do it, Adams needs to act. If they won't do it, either Adams needs to act or Lindy needs to coach it into them.

I am bating with weighted breath to see how Lindy responds to players who won't do what he says.

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Granato talked about it. The players didn't do it. Either they can't do it or won't do it. If they can't do it, Adams needs to act. If they won't do it, either Adams needs to act or Lindy needs to coach it into them.

I am bating with weighted breath to see how Lindy responds to players who won't do what he says.

The bold in a nutshell is why Granato is not the coach any more and Lindy is.

It’s what all that crap about “being accountable” means and it’s the story to watch for the coming season.

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I'll summarize what I said in the posts I made above.

1- Trade picks and prospects to get a guy who can replace Mittelstadt's production.

2- Stay out of the bargain bin, and spend the necessary $$$$ to pick up legitimate NHL players to replace Girgensons, Robertson, Jost, KO, & VO.

If they do both of these, they will get more goals next season.

Adams said he's in win now mode. Let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is.

If you are talking goal production it should not be too hard to replace Casey Mittelstadt. He only scored 18 goals this season. He does a lot of things well but producing goals very often has not been one of them. Tied for 148th place in the NHL with 80 games played. This has been his best year ever. 

[Archie Lee]

59 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Granato talked about it. The players didn't do it. Either they can't do it or won't do it. If they can't do it, Adams needs to act. If they won't do it, either Adams needs to act or Lindy needs to coach it into them.

I am bating with weighted breath to see how Lindy responds to players who won't do what he says.

I like Ruff.  I think he is a good coach. I would have preferred a new direction. He is not an accountability guru. 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2851323

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Absolutely not.

I meant what I said, and I mean it in the the macro: what the heck are we even doing here talking hockey if everything we talk about ultimately ends up bullshite: why do we talk about picks and prospects as currency if the team literally most in position to utilize said strategy in history of the league won’t do it? 

Fix your sarcasm meter.

[PerreaultForever]

It's not complicated.

 

[LGR4GM]

Sabres were tied for 24th in goals for last season. At 5v5 they were 25th in HDCF% and HDCF. 21st in xGF and 23 in xGF%. They were 19th in CF and 16th in CF%.

The Sabres don't generate enough offense to be a playoff team. They need major improvements in how they play hockey, coupled with new players who also play better than some of the trash we've seen. 

On the PP the Sabres were 29th in CF. 31st in xGF. 32nd in HDCF. Adams and Granato sat around and did nothing to fix this problem all season. Again, this team needs major changes and they aren't coming. 

Edited May 15 by LGR4GM

[JoeSchmoe]

57 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

If you are talking goal production it should not be too hard to replace Casey Mittelstadt. He only scored 18 goals this season. He does a lot of things well but producing goals very often has not been one of them. Tied for 148th place in the NHL with 80 games played. This has been his best year ever. 

He sets up goals though.

Many of our goals over the last couple of seasons don't get scored without him on the ice. Losing him means less goals scored by our goal scorers.

[inkman]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

They have to fundamentally change the entire way they play hockey. They are piss poor team in all advanced offensive metrics. If they can't, they'll be trash again. 

Which is why I have been advocating for a roster overhaul.  Too many players that play the game the wrong way.  Maybe some can be corrected but if I’m Lindy, I weed out the bad actors and bring in some guys that’ll set the pace. 

[Night Train]

The Power Play sank into quicksand. That and the inability to win enough key faceoffs. There's your goal shortage. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Night Train said:

The Power Play sank into quicksand. That and the inability to win enough key faceoffs. There's your goal shortage. 

Faceoffs aren't getting you that many goals a year. You wanna talk about winning puck battles sure, but faceoffs are worth maybe 10 goals a season. 

[DarthEbriate]

This season it’s pretty simple:

1. Run a real NHL PP with multiple looks, occasionally from behind the net, with movement and versatile shooters. (And someone near the net.)

2. Replace Jost and Krebs with legitimate 3/4C level players who can manage the ice in all three zones. (And ideally two 2/3Cs, but I can’t see that happening).

3. Crash the net on occasion.

 

[SDS]

4 hours ago, inkman said:

Which is why I have been advocating for a roster overhaul.  Too many players that play the game the wrong way.  Maybe some can be corrected but if I’m Lindy, I weed out the bad actors and bring in some guys that’ll set the pace. 

How many players in the playoffs this year did you consider played the wrong way when they were on the team?

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Sabres were tied for 24th in goals for last season. At 5v5 they were 25th in HDCF% and HDCF. 21st in xGF and 23 in xGF%. They were 19th in CF and 16th in CF%.

The Sabres don't generate enough offense to be a playoff team. They need major improvements in how they play hockey, coupled with new players who also play better than some of the trash we've seen. 

On the PP the Sabres were 29th in CF. 31st in xGF. 32nd in HDCF. Adams and Granato sat around and did nothing to fix this problem all season. Again, this team needs major changes and they aren't coming. 

This team was the Avs in the last year of Patrick Roy as the head coach there.  They were WAY too focused on puck possession and no where nearly focused enough on driving to the net and forcing chances from high danger areas.  Swapping gears briefly to their defending, the Sabres had absolutely no answers for when a team drove the puck below the goal line and then back into the slot.  Why might that have been?  Could it be that they never ever faced that situation in practice as the Sabres never did that offensively themselves.  Driving the puck below the goal line and passing it back into the slot could lead to a really ugly odd man rush against if that pass misses.

How many times this past season did the Sabres work the puck to the slot, but have a contested opportunity to get a shot off and rather than attempt the shot, they passed it to a teammate who was in an uncontested spot but with a much lower percentage shot available (if ANY shot was available)?

Those decisions aren't on the players.  Those are on the coaches.  You don't get an entire team's worth of players get to the highest level of their profession but yet not have enough confidence in their shot to actually shoot.  Sure, you get a Power who doesn't feel his shot is hard enough to get past an NHL goalie because he's only ~20 and doesn't have full man strength yet, and the team is young so he's not the only one, but you don't get the entire bloody team so afraid to shoot from that high danger region unless it is by design.  MHO.

[inkman]

32 minutes ago, SDS said:

How many players in the playoffs this year did you consider played the wrong way when they were on the team?

Reinhart would have been the only one that would give me pause but being Western Canadian, he gets it. 

[SDS]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

Reinhart would have been the only one that would give me pause but being Western Canadian, he gets it. 

Brandon Montour?

Tyler Myers?

Evan Rodriguez?

[SDS]

Casey Middlestat?

Colin Miller?

[inkman]

No problem with any of them 

[SABRES 0311]

11 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

We saw a big drop off this year in goals scored. PP sucked, even strength was not great and several players went backwards.

 

How should this be addressed?

* The PP simply has to get better and that's on Ruff.

* The vets needs to step up

* I really don't see any young player--aside from maybe Benson increasing his output--coming in and making a big difference

* Does that mean a trade or Free Agency needs to address this need?

Agree the PP needs to really improve. To the bold, I don’t think anyone should expect a young guy coming in to help with production. We should expect a veteran player to come in to do that.

An experienced 2C would be better than a 3C we are paying to be a 2C.

[dudacek]

These four vets are certainly capable of more than they scored last year:

• Tuch: last year 22, average past 2 years 29, career high 36
• Thompson: 29, 38, 47
• Cozens: 18, 25, 31
• Skinner: 24, 30, 40 

They need to do so.

History says players rarely peak in the 2nd year. As a group, Quinn, Benson, Krebs and Peterka should be able to improve and need to do so.

Okposo, Girgensons, Olofsson, Jost and Robinson averaged 6 goals per player. They need to be replaced by 5 players who will contribute more.

Is it unreasonable to think they can get 25 more from the 1st group, 20 more from the 2nd and 10 more from the 3rd?

 

Edited May 16 by dudacek

[GoPuckYourself]

If we go into this season with the roster as is with rookies sprinkled in again it will be another long season. We need toughness, grit, backup goalie worth a damn, rugged defensemen and definitely need to upgrade Skinner on the top line. He wouldn't be on any teams top line in these playoffs. Adams has his work cut out for him and hasn't addressed those needs yet and it's going into year 5 so hopefully 5th times a charm? 

Edited May 16 by GoPuckYourself

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Faceoffs aren't getting you that many goals a year. You wanna talk about winning puck battles sure, but faceoffs are worth maybe 10 goals a season. 

A face off win on the PP saves you 20-30 seconds. It matters. 

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

These for vets are certainly capable of more than they scored last year:

• Tuch: last year 22, average past 2 years 29, career high 36
• Thompson: 29, 38, 47
• Cozens: 18, 25, 31
• Skinner: 24, 30, 40 

They need to do so.

History says players rarely peak in the 2nd year. As a group, Quinn, Benson, Krebs and Peterka should be able to improve and need to do so.

Okposo, Girgensons, Olofsson, Jost and Robinson averaged 6 goals per player. They need to be replaced by 5 players who will contribute more.

Is it unreasonable to think they can get 25 more from the 1st group, 20 more from the 2nd and 10 more from the 3rd?

 

I messed this up because I missed Mitts.

Should have included his 14 instead of Robinson's 2, which makes the job of the replacements 12 goals tougher.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

This team was the Avs in the last year of Patrick Roy as the head coach there.  They were WAY too focused on puck possession and no where nearly focused enough on driving to the net and forcing chances from high danger areas.  Swapping gears briefly to their defending, the Sabres had absolutely no answers for when a team drove the puck below the goal line and then back into the slot.  Why might that have been?  Could it be that they never ever faced that situation in practice as the Sabres never did that offensively themselves.  Driving the puck below the goal line and passing it back into the slot could lead to a really ugly odd man rush against if that pass misses.

How many times this past season did the Sabres work the puck to the slot, but have a contested opportunity to get a shot off and rather than attempt the shot, they passed it to a teammate who was in an uncontested spot but with a much lower percentage shot available (if ANY shot was available)?

Those decisions aren't on the players.  Those are on the coaches.  You don't get an entire team's worth of players get to the highest level of their profession but yet not have enough confidence in their shot to actually shoot.  Sure, you get a Power who doesn't feel his shot is hard enough to get past an NHL goalie because he's only ~20 and doesn't have full man strength yet, and the team is young so he's not the only one, but you don't get the entire bloody team so afraid to shoot from that high danger region unless it is by design.  MHO.

They don't get shots there because they don't go their regularly. That's not simply a coaching problem, it's a player problem too.

 

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

These for vets are certainly capable of more than they scored last year:

• Tuch: last year 22, average past 2 years 29, career high 36
• Thompson: 29, 38, 47
• Cozens: 18, 25, 31
• Skinner: 24, 30, 40 

They need to do so.

History says players rarely peak in the 2nd year. As a group, Quinn, Benson, Krebs and Peterka should be able to improve and need to do so.

Okposo, Girgensons, Olofsson, Jost and Robinson averaged 6 goals per player. They need to be replaced by 5 players who will contribute more.

Is it unreasonable to think they can get 25 more from the 1st group, 20 more from the 2nd and 10 more from the 3rd?

 

One of these things is not like the others 

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

A face off win on the PP saves you 20-30 seconds. It matters. 

I've charted it on this very board. The correlation between good faceoff teams and winning is almost non existent.