Blow the Whole Team up in the Off-Season - It's the Only Reasonable Thing to do

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, sabremike said:

A friendly reminder: If you put together a team comprised of players we have lost/gotten rid of over the past 6 years it would be one of the best rosters in the league and a very strong cup contender. 

STOP. TREATING. THE. SYMPTOM.

It’s why I always laugh when people look at the ROR deal and are like: “oh Tage panned out, good deal.” Perhaps the most irresistible, unmovable variable in life itself, Time, somehow seems to creep under the radar all too often.

Plenty of the reason these guys didn’t do anything here and did stuff later is exactly that: timing. *When* we are adding these players and expecting them to carry the mail. *When* we choose to surround them with competent reinforcements. *When* one talent is here, and in his prime, where another is not, yet, or not yet in their prime.

The roster building here has in large part been a story of missed connections. Few of them have been in the right place at the right TIME.

We can accumulate talent but struggle to construct a *team*, because a good team necessarily results from a multitude of things pulling in a consistent direction at the same time. They are united in that aim. It’s not a situation where half is pulling for development: that’s improper timing relative to rest of roster that has aims of winning 

Edited January 24 by Thorny

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

swap Appert and Peca with Elis and Christie (Ellis and Christie to Rochester), sign Cam Talbot to replace Anderson and partner with Luukkonen, send Levi to Rochester, trade Oloffson at 50% and a 2nd for Toffoli and give Kerfoot more AAV or an extra year of term to what he got from Arizona and I think we could be in a much different place right now.  There are a hundred variations of this that could have been done.

To use an @inkman line: This gave me a sad.

16 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We can accumulate talent but struggle to construct a *team*, because a good team necessarily results from a multitude of things pulling in a consistent direction at the same time. They are united in that aim. It’s not a situation where half is pulling for development: that’s improper timing relative to rest of roster that has aims of winning 

[PerreaultForever]

This is a difficult but inevitable discussion. I was all for the initial Adams blow it up and start over and prior to this season I would not have wanted another one. I did say last year though that we were in a very fragile culture building moment and it could fall apart easily. I think they blew it and broke it when they failed to make a free agency impact (or hockey trade(s)) and brought back Kyle as captain. 

Now to be clear, it's not Kyle's fault. He actually does a lot of the right things despite his diminished talent and on a good team he'd be just fine, but he was not the right leader for this fragile young team. They blew it with ROR and they blew it here and I suspect they will blow it again. 

There are multiple factors, but I think it's broken again and I think it's possible it does need to be blown up again. I do not think Pegula will make the right moves, but here is what I believe needs to be done. 

1. Fire Adams, Granato, and all the assistant coaches (you may need an interim to end the season so you can use Appert for that)

2. Hire a hockey guy. A senior advisor. Listen to him.

3. New GM, new coach. Let them evaluate attitude and desire and accountability and decide on the subtractions like Philly did. 

4. Bring in veteran leadership to surround the kids you keep. 

5. Tear out all the luxuries in the locker room. No ipads. No games. No between the stalls. No frills. No spas. You want it? You f'n earn it and then it'll come back and not before. 

As I type this I realize there's a lot more numbers and this could go on and on so I'm going to stop cause I know it won't happen. We need a new culture of hard work every night and full accountability. If we do not get it, this nightmare will never end.

[Berg]

Nothing will change...Another 10 bottom years

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, CallawaySabres said:

I hate to say it because it just brings back nightmares of the tank era, but...this team needs to lose and lose badly for the next 5 games. This is not wanted for a better draft pick, but to tear this thing down once and for all. Make someone interim coach and then pounce on the very first coach that they feel can lead this team. THat could happen in a week or in a few months. 

"IF" that were to happen, seems like Seth Appert is the guy they would put in place.....since none of our existing assistants were elevated when DG was ill.  Pretty sad....reminds me of the Ron Rolston era.

[steveoat87]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is a difficult but inevitable discussion. I was all for the initial Adams blow it up and start over and prior to this season I would not have wanted another one. I did say last year though that we were in a very fragile culture building moment and it could fall apart easily. I think they blew it and broke it when they failed to make a free agency impact (or hockey trade(s)) and brought back Kyle as captain. 

Now to be clear, it's not Kyle's fault. He actually does a lot of the right things despite his diminished talent and on a good team he'd be just fine, but he was not the right leader for this fragile young team. They blew it with ROR and they blew it here and I suspect they will blow it again. 

There are multiple factors, but I think it's broken again and I think it's possible it does need to be blown up again. I do not think Pegula will make the right moves, but here is what I believe needs to be done. 

1. Fire Adams, Granato, and all the assistant coaches (you may need an interim to end the season so you can use Appert for that)

2. Hire a hockey guy. A senior advisor. Listen to him.

3. New GM, new coach. Let them evaluate attitude and desire and accountability and decide on the subtractions like Philly did. 

4. Bring in veteran leadership to surround the kids you keep. 

5. Tear out all the luxuries in the locker room. No ipads. No games. No between the stalls. No frills. No spas. You want it? You f'n earn it and then it'll come back and not before. 

As I type this I realize there's a lot more numbers and this could go on and on so I'm going to stop cause I know it won't happen. We need a new culture of hard work every night and full accountability. If we do not get it, this nightmare will never end.

"5. Tear out all the luxuries in the locker room. No ipads. No games. No between the stalls. No frills. No spas. You want it? You f'n earn it and then it'll come back and not before."  

If I had any artistic talent I would love to be able to draw a cartoon showing the Sabres locker room with a few players wearing fancy robes, getting massages and sipping champagne, and with one of the players saying "how does this get any better if we start winning?'

Take out all the toys and make this all about being accountable and winning.  You don't need a martinet to do this -- just someone who can sell his plan and push the right buttons.  This coaching staff can't do this.

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Jets haven’t seemed to have any issue remaining very competitive. All it takes is competence 

@TageMVPhad it: 3 buffoons all in one way or another obsessed with a big tear down and rise to prominence. Some master plan just to do something half the league does every single year.
 

It’s actually rather comical, if you think about it. Like in a truly funny way. They are hilariously out of touch 

Pinky and the Brain level schemes to figure out how to assemble a barbecue 

yep, same thing was said of the Bills and I don't think thats a problem at the moment.

Get a competent coaching staff, fix the holes in the roster, may have to  go the trade route...wait they NEED to go the trade route to start. Start winning and the perception quickly changes.

A year ago I was teasing my friends who cheer for the Canucks and thanking them for becoming the clown franchise of the league, taking over from the Sabres at long last...

Hire Rick Tocchet in Jan 2023, a few good decisions on building the roster and now look.

Since hiring Toccet. they signed Ian Cole, Teddy Blueger,  Carson Soucy All via UFA market

Traded for Sam Lafferty in Oct for 5th round pick

Traded for Nikita Zadorov Side note -  Im old enough to remember people laughing at the notion of brining back Tyler Myers last year when the Canucks wanted to dump him.I also remember the reacton when I suggested Zadorov as an option on the bottom pair.... and there they are   Myers TOI is 20mins per game and Big Z is plays 18 to 20 mins. for the team we could only dream about becoming.

Thats all theyve done. They did not blow it up They hired a coach who knows what he is doing  

They literally brought in footsoldiers in Lafferty and Blueger

Made 1 splash with Soucy and then added 2 serviceable Dmen in Zadorov and Cole.

Crazy to think how poor Adams did this past off-season

 

Edited January 24 by Crusader1969

[oddoublee]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Tear out all the luxuries in the locker room. No ipads. No games. No between the stalls. No frills. No spas. You want it? You f'n earn it and then it'll come back and not before. 

Half agree with you on #5. Not sure nice ***** needs to be taken away. In terms of education and physical health - they should have top of the line and readily available equipment.

That said - always felt the lockerroom and entry way to the ice was a bit too country club in its design. I am more on board with workman like aesthetics - but high level treatment and equipment. 

Create an environment that makes the players more excited to take the ice than hangout in their lounge with the boys. State of the art system that creates best ice in the league? I would put more money into that than even making the fan experience better. Fans will come if you are winning...even if the beef on weck sucks!

I digress...

[Crusader1969]

28 minutes ago, steveoat87 said:

"5. Tear out all the luxuries in the locker room. No ipads. No games. No between the stalls. No frills. No spas. You want it? You f'n earn it and then it'll come back and not before."  

If I had any artistic talent I would love to be able to draw a cartoon showing the Sabres locker room with a few players wearing fancy robes, getting massages and sipping champagne, and with one of the players saying "how does this get any better if we start winning?'

Take out all the toys and make this all about being accountable and winning.  You don't need a martinet to do this -- just someone who can sell his plan and push the right buttons.  This coaching staff can't do this.

the coaches are the problem not the players. 

[pi2000]

8 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Yep let’s start from scratch and wait another 10 years to sniff the playoffs.

They need an ass kicking coach like Tocchet to come in and demand a work ethic. The team will turn around quickly.

Try a coaching change first.   If they don't respond then start by moving guys who regularly take nights off.

[PickaPecaPickles]

2 hours ago, Hawerchuk said:

Makes me long for the days of Jay McKee and Rhett Warrener. Both of those Defensemen could lay the hammer on opponents. This team needs more players like that.

This and coaching. Adam’s has acquired a lot of skill but with very little toughness. Is it so difficult to see what makes up a good playoff team?
 

[Demoted]

8 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Yep let’s start from scratch and wait another 10 years to sniff the playoffs.

They need an ass kicking coach like Tocchet to come in and demand a work ethic. The team will turn around quickly.

Well if it takes you 10 years to start from scratch than you are just cursed and nothing will change it. That should not be the case in today's NHL, the Sabres are an anomaly.

[Night Train]

Going back to the first post.

Why would it be impossible to trade anybody ?  Are folks in love with the team or individuals ?  

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Stay the course! Look at Reinhardt now, look at Monture now, don't trade away kids that will help other teams win. 

Stay the course with most of the players but not with the GM and HC.   
 

I prefer replacing at the GM level, but at a minimum , if TP keeps Adams then he must be directed to find a HC that has had recent NHL success, and then work with that coach to fix the roster.    A serious set of goals should be set within a short time frame, and review.  Certain front office salaries get tied to the goals.  

Edited January 24 by Pimlach

[Quint]

5 hours ago, Hawerchuk said:

Agree 100%. A player like Alex Pietrangelo of the Golden Knights is a perfect example. Not that he's coming to Buffalo, lord help us, but this type of player for sure.

I'd like to know what percentage of NHL players have Buffalo on their no-trade list. It has to be high. I think the bottom line is the management merry-go-round. Since Pegreasy assumed ownership, Buffalo, formerly the "little town that could", has turned into a bastion of incompetence. Players don't like the instability and incompetence Terry surrounds himself with, not to mention that committing to Buffalo (except for those who have ties to the area) is a tough sell even in the best of times.

[CallawaySabres]

It can’t be possible that somebody in the Sabres organization does not know about this message Board. I mean if they had the slightest clue, someone would be trying to get a pulse of the fans and this is cleary the board to do it. You would think they would be absolutely disgusted With themselves after seeing the topics recently.

[sweetlou]

I would moving on from Ganato in the off-season.  Try to bring Peca in as head coach. Great motivator and willing to show passion and desire to win.  Surround him with experienced assistants who know hoot coach.

Also make a shake up type of move to show players they have to play hard every night.  Move Mule, Cozens, or Joker.  Need a couple of grinders for the 4th line that can show the young guys it takes max effort every night, every shift. 

[Goldseatsaud]

4 hours ago, Hawerchuk said:

Makes me long for the days of Jay McKee and Rhett Warrener. Both of those Defensemen could lay the hammer on opponents. This team needs more players like that.

I’ll go further back with Schoney and Kong 

[Hawerchuk]

10 minutes ago, Goldseatsaud said:

I’ll go further back with Schoney and Kong 

"The French gorilla" as Rick Jeanneret would say.

[Crusader1969]

22 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

I would moving on from Ganato in the off-season.  Try to bring Peca in as head coach. Great motivator and willing to show passion and desire to win.  Surround him with experienced assistants who know hoot coach.

Also make a shake up type of move to show players they have to play hard every night.  Move Mule, Cozens, or Joker.  Need a couple of grinders for the 4th line that can show the young guys it takes max effort every night, every shift. 

I'm going to let someone else hire him   Coaches usually last 2 to 5 years.   Let him earn his stripes as HC with another organization.   
that being said my coaching choice would be Brind'Amour and he didn't have any experience when hired by Carolina. 
so I'm not hating your idea at all 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

I would moving on from Ganato in the off-season.  Try to bring Peca in as head coach. Great motivator and willing to show passion and desire to win.  Surround him with experienced assistants who know hoot coach.

No. More. Rookie. Coaches.

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Not only was it reasonable, but a rookie goalie was going to lead them there on the way to a Calder Trophy if not the Vezina.

I have the receipts. All 103 of them.

Whatevs.

 

[Taro T]

At least there are only 2 more games to the AS break.  Survive these next 2.

Seriously consider a shakeup in the coaching staff.  (Wanted the PP coach gone last year.  That move needs to happen yesterday.)  Definitely need better assistants.  Maybe Granato needs to go too.  

But focus on playing the right way after the AS break and make sure the players realize that they're at minimum playing for their beloved Granato's job and quite possibly their own jobs as well.  See how they can play with the sense of urgency of things ARE going to change if they don't change.

Let the guys that should've been the leaders this season officially become the leaders next season.  (Presumes they don't totally screw the pooch down the stretch.  Expect they can avoid doing that.)  Really like Girgensons and will be sad to see him go, but he and Okposo need to be gone at the end of the year at the latest.  There are a lot of guys on this team that have been leaders at lower levels and they now need the opportunity to step up.  The younger guys have deferred to Okposo for too long.  They need to step up.

They've already suffered through the kids growing pains these past 3 years.  There's still some more growing pains for those that aren't (or just barely are) legally allowed to drink after home games; but expect the worst of them can be past provided they fix the coaching issues.  Don't see a reason to blow it up once again unless we want to add ANOTHER 3-4 years to this drought.  17 years was the magic # for the Pegulas other major franchise, realize that'll be here before we realize but really don't want to see them do another reset.  Kulich likely makes the team next year.  At most that is how many rookies should be added to next year's roster.  Still would like a vet top 4D brought in.  If that costs some of the assets that Adams has accumulated, so be it.  

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

No. More. Rookie. Coaches.

I was going to reply yes but remember Rod Brind'amour was once a rookie coach and maybe Mike Peca would be fine BUT then I looked it up -  Brind'amour was an assistant coach for 7 years before finally being hired as head Coach.  
Peca will have 1 year NHL assistant coaching experience.  Just not enough 

so now I'm in 100% agreement with you 

NO ROOKIE HEAD COACHES!

[Weave]

11 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I was going to reply yes but remember Rod Brind'amour was once a rookie coach and maybe Mike Peca would be fine BUT then I looked it up -  Brind'amour was an assistant coach for 7 years before finally being hired as head Coach.  
Peca will have 1 year NHL assistant coaching experience.  Just not enough 

so now I'm in 100% agreement with you 

NO ROOKIE HEAD COACHES!

I don’t even want rookie assistant coaches.  This team is saddled with too much inexperience already. The ***** least that can be done is buttress them with coaches that aren’t learning on the job.