Ranking: Why we suck this year

[inkman]

19 hours ago, Alaska John said:

My fear about this team is that they're rinsing and repeating the culture mistakes.  Eichel and Reinhardt didn't come to the team with defeatist attitudes.  Neither did O'Reilly.  These players, who were top talents on the team, just got worn down, disgusted, and had to go.  A year ago KA was crowing about having players who wanted to be here and who respected the Sabres logo.  Now all those top picks are looking at each other and seeing another year of their careers going down the drain.  They HAVE to be looking at other teams and wondering if there's a way to get somewhere else.  

Maybe they should be looking at each other as to why they aren’t good.  If we have players that want to run away from their problems, good riddance.  

[Night Train]

Many had career years and are having 1/10th of that this year. 91 points from a team that in reality is a 75 point team and is proving it this year. 

Meanwhile, Adams hands out bloated contracts way too early to soft players..pretenders. " My Guys "  (Darcy 2.0).

A major trade of multiple players could change things... but nothing will happen. Maybe a Bob Corkum deal to show the public they care. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

Your response makes absolutely no sense to me. Progression from last year would mean that this team would be playing better/improved play and be in the thick of a playoff run. What you are basically saying is that you agree with me, and then conclude that you disagree with me. That is nonsensical reasoning. This is what happens when someone is too robotic and programmed with all their responses to all questions and comments. You may not be aware of it but a difference without a difference is no difference. 🙃

Don't become a jackoff by trying to act clever, it's not.

It's easy to be better but do worse if your competition is better. Didn't think of that did you. OR, you can be better but your competition takes you more seriously because they expected you to be better. Anyone who thinks we don't still pick up wins here and there because the competition takes us lightly is dreaming. 

There's a development path to winning and "better" is a vague word that can mean many things. You want lasting success you need to build a culture where hard work and defensive responsibility takes center stage. It has to be the foundation you start from. The bar gets set and the work ethic kicks in. Point totals and playoffs come from there. Sabres don't seem to understand that. 

They also don't understand player development. They just seem to take a kid like Power and say "hey, you have talent, go out there and do your thing" . I see no evidence of proper coaching and development at any level for this franchise. 

[Ducky]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:47 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

Here's my ranking. It's almost like everything that could go wrong did. The only bright spots were Mittelstadt, Peterka, and Benson. Skinner gets a conditional pass as well, since his linemates appear to have packed it in.

1. Thompson's a lot worse and seems disinterested

2. Our 5 and 6 D are a lot worse

3. KA didn't get a #1 goaltender, and kept Comrie and UPL on the roster

4. Cozens is a lot worse

5. Tuch is worse

6. Samuelson is worse

7. Dahlin's effort is suspect most nights

8. Power hasn't improved at all, especially defensively 

9. Quinn has been hurt

10. Krebs is likely not an NHL of any significance but still plays a lot 

11. Granato won't play Ryan Johnson despite him being at worst our #5 D.

12. VO and our backlog of offense prospects failed to get moved for defensive help.

13. We still give a roster spot to brain-dead ZG.

14. Big guys like Greenway, Robinson, and Power play like 🐱

#3 is the main reason.

Leaving Levi up to get shell-shocked isn't the smartest move either.

He needs to be in Rochester developing his game. The NHL isn't a development lesgue.

[BMWR100RT]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:02 PM, Shoot da Puck said:

I am not selling you my season tickets for $2

Nice try though 

2.50?

[TageMVP]

2 minutes ago, BMWR100RT said:

2.50?

At this point, they'd have to pay me to go. I'd rather have season tickets for Sabres AWAY games. 

[JohnC]

22 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Don't become a jackoff by trying to act clever, it's not.

It's easy to be better but do worse if your competition is better. Didn't think of that did you. OR, you can be better but your competition takes you more seriously because they expected you to be better. Anyone who thinks we don't still pick up wins here and there because the competition takes us lightly is dreaming. 

There's a development path to winning and "better" is a vague word that can mean many things. You want lasting success you need to build a culture where hard work and defensive responsibility takes center stage. It has to be the foundation you start from. The bar gets set and the work ethic kicks in. Point totals and playoffs come from there. Sabres don't seem to understand that. 

They also don't understand player development. They just seem to take a kid like Power and say "hey, you have talent, go out there and do your thing" . I see no evidence of proper coaching and development at any level for this franchise. 

I'm not trying to be clever or play semantical games. We are not performing as well when compared to last year's end of the season playoff push. This team for the most part elevates their game when going against the upper tier teams, and then slides down when competing with the lower-level teams. The uneven performance is obvious and is reflected in its record. We had one of the better PPs in the league. Not this year. Teams have adjusted while we haven't. 

If you are assuming that I don't agree with the necessity to consistently work hard and play a responsible game, then you have not accurately interpreted what I have been saying about my criticism of this year's team for inconsistent play, especially against the lesser teams. 

[Shoot da Puck]

21 hours ago, BMWR100RT said:

2.50?

No

[PASabreFan]

I wonder how "we need better compete" plays in the lockerroom when even Zach Benson can see they don't have an NHL coaching staff.

Has one coach come out and said, "As coaches we need to be better"?

Has DG?

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I'm not trying to be clever or play semantical games. We are not performing as well when compared to last year's end of the season playoff push. This team for the most part elevates their game when going against the upper tier teams, and then slides down when competing with the lower-level teams. The uneven performance is obvious and is reflected in its record. We had one of the better PPs in the league. Not this year. Teams have adjusted while we haven't. 

If you are assuming that I don't agree with the necessity to consistently work hard and play a responsible game, then you have not accurately interpreted what I have been saying about my criticism of this year's team for inconsistent play, especially against the lesser teams. 

We agree on the work ethic but I don't see this team elevating against top tier. We just dropped a major turd of a game against Boston. Blowing out the Leafs isn't elevating against top teams it's just the Leafs love to play wide open no checking and we do well in that. We will blow the Leafs out often. Means nothing. This team gets yelled at for a bad game (I guess) and then has a good one but can't have more. They drop right back to lazy/sloppy/uninterested every time. Doesn't matter who the competition is. 

[LGR4GM]

Idk where to put this but, since I defended Dahlin earlier today. 

 

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I'm not trying to be clever or play semantical games. We are not performing as well when compared to last year's end of the season playoff push. This team for the most part elevates their game when going against the upper tier teams, and then slides down when competing with the lower-level teams. The uneven performance is obvious and is reflected in its record. We had one of the better PPs in the league. Not this year. Teams have adjusted while we haven't. 

If you are assuming that I don't agree with the necessity to consistently work hard and play a responsible game, then you have not accurately interpreted what I have been saying about my criticism of this year's team for inconsistent play, especially against the lesser teams. 

The one problem with this is that the power play was horrible for most of the playoff push. Things started to turn in the wrong direction around the halfway point of last season and the team won in spite of it.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I wonder how "we need better compete" plays in the lockerroom when even Zach Benson can see they don't have an NHL coaching staff.

Has one coach come out and said, "As coaches we need to be better"?

Has DG?

Benson is probably paying more attention to the glaring holes throughout the roster and the fact the team needs to rely on him to the extent they do because of it 

[Thorny]

48 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

We agree on the work ethic but I don't see this team elevating against top tier. We just dropped a major turd of a game against Boston. Blowing out the Leafs isn't elevating against top teams it's just the Leafs love to play wide open no checking and we do well in that. We will blow the Leafs out often. Means nothing. This team gets yelled at for a bad game (I guess) and then has a good one but can't have more. They drop right back to lazy/sloppy/uninterested every time. Doesn't matter who the competition is. 

Agree. They clearly don’t “elevate”. It’s not a good team that gosh darn it just won’t try. Other teams frustrate them because on balance we have an inferior roster (which can look like effort) and good teams plays down to bad PARTICULARLY when considering the sample size of an 82 game season and the randomness that entails 

Coaching is a factor but their record is reflective of their roster construction primarily. 

Edited January 3 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Agree. They clearly don’t “elevate”. It’s not a good team that gosh darn it just won’t try. Other teams frustrate them because on balance we have an inferior roster (which can look like effort) and good teams plays down to bad PARTICULARLY when considering the sample size of an 82 game season and the randomness that entails 

Coaching is a factor but their record is reflective of their roster construction primarily. 

I agree that the roster construction is a primary problem but there's a coaching problem in terms of the system/structure (or lack of) that they employ.

The Sabres philosophy seems to be build a team with blazing speed and offensive skill that will dominate in the offensive zone and thus win hockey games by scoring lots of goals. At least I think that's what it is. Sometimes they are so bad it's hard to tell. The defensive plan however seems to be simply have fast skating defensemen who will (or are supposed to) make quick exit passes and get the puck out of their own end right away and launch/drive that offense. By that philosophy zone time should be disproportionate and skill and speed will win out (or so they think). 

The problem (or at least one of them) is that the second they turn that puck over in the offensive zone they just run around chasing and there is no counter plan, there are no layers and there is no structured defense so the other team just moves up the ice easily and controls the puck. They drive the net where our D is very weak and they screen and tip (like we don't do) and we have multiple defensive breakdowns.

Offensively this team is big enough and fast enough that it could, it COULD, have a very aggressive forecheck that would cause massive headaches for the opposition but it requires the forwards to hit and finish their checks. To press their D and knock them off the puck and then pounce on their turnovers with our skill. But we're soft and we only function in open ice. We don't go to the net and most teams can keep us on the perimeter or along the wall for most of the night. Shots are easy most of the time. 

Most NHL goalies are good. Most teams are good. Scoring requires hard work and net front. You have to go to the dirty areas and you score by screens and tips. No goalie stops a well executed tip play and we should be practicing those constantly. We are big. We should be able to do this. Why little Benson is one of our most noticeable net front players is beyond me. I shouldn't notice this, because they should ALL be doing it but they don't. It's too hard and it demands hard work and bumps and bruises but that's how you win. 

There is no physicality and no team defensive construct and that to me, that lands with the coaching. If the players you have refuse to do that when the coach demands it, then you have to change the roster, but I don't see the coaches demanding it. If they are, the players are definitely not listening.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

The one problem with this is that the power play was horrible for most of the playoff push. Things started to turn in the wrong direction around the halfway point of last season and the team won in spite of it.

Our PP was better last year. But that isn't the salient point. The bigger issue, which is more pronounced this year, is that it hasn't been able to make the necessary adjustments to make it better. We have enough offensive players to have a presentable PP. It just seems that it has been stymied to the extent where the unit seems to be completely flummoxed. It's gotten to the point where even setting up in their zone has become a challenge. It's understood that teams adjust to what you are doing, and correspondingly, it seems that we haven't been able to adjust to their adjustment. The deficiency in our PP production has been a major reason why this team has struggled. There needs to be changes to that unit either in scheming of players, or a combination of both. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

We agree on the work ethic but I don't see this team elevating against top tier. We just dropped a major turd of a game against Boston. Blowing out the Leafs isn't elevating against top teams it's just the Leafs love to play wide open no checking and we do well in that. We will blow the Leafs out often. Means nothing. This team gets yelled at for a bad game (I guess) and then has a good one but can't have more. They drop right back to lazy/sloppy/uninterested every time. Doesn't matter who the competition is. 

Put aside the Leafs. Our best games were against Colorado, NY Rangers, Boston in Boston and Vegas in Vegas. These are all top tier teams i.e. cup contending teams. In all of these games, there was a focus and intensity in play (two-way play) that for the most part lasted throughout the game. For whatever reason, against lesser teams our play is substantially below the standard that it is against the listed teams. That is what has bothered me the most about this season. I'm not even sure that we have won two games in a row? That also bothers me. There is a marked difference in the quality of play between how the team finished up last year and how it has not translated to this year. That bothers me. It's perplexing and inexcusable. 

[DarthEbriate]

I kind of liken last year's Sabres team to that one-year wonder Avalanche team. It was a bunch of kids having abnormal seasons (Duchesne 23, Landeskog 21, ROR 22, MacKinnon 18). But -- they also got Varlamov on fire in net and good veteran goaltending from JS Giguere. They jumped to 1st in their division (Sabres had a much more competitive division) and then fell right back down to last in their division the next season. It took them another few seasons to truly build back out of it and become their current juggernaut (and getting Makar).

The Sabres have the talent. But it does take time to grow up. Erik Johnson has lived through it, knows it, and called it out in the preseason. He's doesn't have the legs to make a consistent difference on the ice so much now, but he can see it. The team (and this means coaching, too) needs to grow up and commit to an NHL-brand of hockey. When they fill out and commit to defense, they'll be good. But their GM tried to shortcut it this season and the team wasn't ready. And some of the ancillary folks on the roster must get moved for better competitors for the team to succeed.

The only way they made the playoffs this season would have been if Levi played like last year's Levi and UPL/Comrie took a big step forward as the #2. Neither happened. And the powerplay also completely unraveled.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

Put aside the Leafs. Our best games were against Colorado, NY Rangers, Boston in Boston and Vegas in Vegas. These are all top tier teams i.e. cup contending teams. In all of these games, there was a focus and intensity in play (two-way play) that for the most part lasted throughout the game. For whatever reason, against lesser teams our play is substantially below the standard that it is against the listed teams. That is what has bothered me the most about this season. I'm not even sure that we have won two games in a row? That also bothers me. There is a marked difference in the quality of play between how the team finished up last year and how it has not translated to this year. That bothers me. It's perplexing and inexcusable. 

You are cherry picking the games though. We beat Boston once, but lost to them twice. Colorado and the Rangers have also beaten us. We have losses to Philly and Pittsburgh and Carolina and New Jersey and a host of others. Some of them we've also beaten but overall we lose more than win and there's only a handful of good games where we were the better team by far. 

I looked it up we have won 2 games in a row ONCE this year. October 29 against Colorado followed by Philly on Nov 1. It was a Halloween miracle. 

You can keep talking about "how we finished up last year" but I tell you it was an illusion. A few teams we beat near the end had depleted rosters, a few took us lightly. We played some good games, but we were not all that good. Not that different from how we started this year. 

This might shock you but Krueger's points percentage in 2019 was actually better than Granato's is now. Bylsma's was better in both his years. Ruff, Ruff only had us below .500 in one bad season. The rest were all good and some VERY good. Floyd Smith of course gave us our best numbers for obvious reasons.

Do you remember when the bar for acceptable was much higher? Sator got replaced because he wasn't high enough above .500 and Dudley got axed the minute he dipped below. 

Granato is below .500 and with him it's "patience".  F that. 

 

[Dreams Burn Down]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You are cherry picking the games though. We beat Boston once, but lost to them twice. Colorado and the Rangers have also beaten us. We have losses to Philly and Pittsburgh and Carolina and New Jersey and a host of others. Some of them we've also beaten but overall we lose more than win and there's only a handful of good games where we were the better team by far. 

I looked it up we have won 2 games in a row ONCE this year. October 29 against Colorado followed by Philly on Nov 1. It was a Halloween miracle. 

You can keep talking about "how we finished up last year" but I tell you it was an illusion. A few teams we beat near the end had depleted rosters, a few took us lightly. We played some good games, but we were not all that good. Not that different from how we started this year. 

This might shock you but Krueger's points percentage in 2019 was actually better than Granato's is now. Bylsma's was better in both his years. Ruff, Ruff only had us below .500 in one bad season. The rest were all good and some VERY good. Floyd Smith of course gave us our best numbers for obvious reasons.

Do you remember when the bar for acceptable was much higher? Sator got replaced because he wasn't high enough above .500 and Dudley got axed the minute he dipped below. 

Granato is below .500 and with him it's "patience".  F that. 

 

The bolded hits home for me.  The minimum expectation used to be to make the playoffs.  I remember being relieved with the May Day goal because we finally got out of the first round, which the media and fans were down on the organization for not achieving for years; and rightly so.

It shows me how far my own expectations have fallen since.  Honestly, I don't think playoffs anymore.  I simply want the Sabres to be a fully functional hockey club in every sense of the word.

KA and DG deserve their full share of blame for the dysfunction now, but TP is the common denominator here.  Unless he lucks out and finds a GM and coach combo that he is willing to grant certain autonomy, we're going to be spinning our wheels here for the foreseeable future.

[Warriorspikes51]

pretending we didn't need a real NHL goalie

pretending we adding quality Dmen

that's a start 

[mjd1001]

I remember reading a few years ago that the Sabres gutted the scouting department/budget, and probably the development staff also.  I'm not sure how much/how far they have gone to rebuild those things.  AND that is something came down from up high (Pegula).  The question is....players....coaching, all the problems we see.....are they really the problems that we make them out to be? Or is it more the underlying issues that the budget cuts of the past caused. 

You could being in any coach you want, have the highest draft picks, but if you don't have the support you need or your 'develpment' staff and 'assistant coaches' are all former players RIGHT out of the league with little expereince but that you can pay entry level salaries too....are you really setting things up to be as good as they can be?

[Taro T]

34 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I remember reading a few years ago that the Sabres gutted the scouting department/budget, and probably the development staff also.  I'm not sure how much/how far they have gone to rebuild those things.  AND that is something came down from up high (Pegula).  The question is....players....coaching, all the problems we see.....are they really the problems that we make them out to be? Or is it more the underlying issues that the budget cuts of the past caused. 

You could being in any coach you want, have the highest draft picks, but if you don't have the support you need or your 'develpment' staff and 'assistant coaches' are all former players RIGHT out of the league with little expereince but that you can pay entry level salaries too....are you really setting things up to be as good as they can be?

To the question about the rebuilding of the scouting & development staffs and the building of an analytics staff and the integration of all 3, asked Adams a year and a half ago where the rebuild and realignment of the hockey department stood and he said they were pretty much set then but wanted 1 more development coach IIRC.  (Can try to track my notes later.)  And believe that position was filled that summer.  So, don't really see a lack in the hockey department due to the Covid era budget cuts as being an excuse for any shortcomings.  

[Cityo'Rasmii]

Fire up that expresso machine again?? 🤪

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

To the question about the rebuilding of the scouting & development staffs and the building of an analytics staff and the integration of all 3, asked Adams a year and a half ago where the rebuild and realignment of the hockey department stood and he said they were pretty much set then but wanted 1 more development coach IIRC.  (Can try to track my notes later.)  And believe that position was filled that summer.  So, don't really see a lack in the hockey department due to the Covid era budget cuts as being an excuse for any shortcomings.  

Thats good to hear, but what are the quality of those guys?  I don't really know how much experience development guys have in the NHL...so I am ignorant to that, it just seems to be the Sabres like to fill positions with guys who are right out of the league, former players who their job with the Sabres is their first job.  Kinda like....Sabres hire them, they get their experience here, make their mistakes here, then they move on to other places (Peca).