Weave Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, SwampD said: Am I the only one who doesn’t think the problem with this team so far in the early stages of this season hasn’t been our goalies? I feel like everyone is walking to the gallows already. Jeebus. None of the 3 have been consistent enough to depend upon. That is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, Thorny said: Is 17 out of 32 a pass? If the team is average, is that a pass? Actually asking No, right now that's a fail. The next 6 games are critical to turning a failing grade into a passing one. We need to go at least 4-2 in those games and we need to get 900+ save % out of our goalies to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Buff Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 The goalie debate is a lot like the running back debate for the BILLS. If we could just sign a top 3 guy, maybe then we'd be set. Problem is theres not many of those top guys around. So how do the teams with non-elite goaltending manage to be average to good? Play better team defense for starters. Minimize the turnovers, play within a system where everyone knows their role & is disciplined. I think we'd see our goaltending stats improve, just with better play in front of the net. Only goaltender that could bail out this team with all the giveaways & uncovered forwards is Hasek & even then he'd be challenged unlike ever before. Hasek's teams played within a system that suited the roster & all components played their part, and when all were working together, it was a tough machine to play against. This team isnt tough to play against. Might be tough to skate with at times but we need to score 5 goals every night to have a chance at a W it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Is it better for Levi to be a rotational goalie or learn "the grind" in the AHL? He needs to be playing and playing a lot at this point in his development. 1 or 2 games a week isn't going to help him. And the lack of consistency with the other two goalies prevents it. 16 minutes ago, Taro T said: So if the goalies are "rotating" that puts UPL between the pipes tonight, right? Not a fan of that. Carolina gets a lot of movement wth the puck and UPL is better suited to N-S attacks. D needs to be really active taking away the backdoor and the cross ice passing. If they can, UPL might not need that horseshoe. (But still, much like Linus with his security blanket, hope he remembers it.) Hopefully the horseshoe is firmly wedged up his you know what and Halak spits the bit in presumably his 1st start of the year. That assumes a set order to the rotation. It could readily be more of a “all three will get their share of the load” situation without a defined rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Is it better for Levi to be a rotational goalie or learn "the grind" in the AHL? He needs to be playing and playing a lot at this point in his development. 1 or 2 games a week isn't going to help him. People were screaming that 4 games in 8 days broke him. It's 3 in 5 every week in the AHL. (Actually for 4 of the next 5 weeks its only 1 or 2 in the AHL each week, too.) Leave him in Buffalo and give him the games against the better puck moving teams and give UPL the games against the teams that are more offensively challenged. He'll end up with Grant Fuhr type numbers, but like Grant he'll win more often than not. We can live with that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, Thorny said: Why did people think the scoring would remain at an elite level, when so much had to be committed to team defence to ensure the goalies could put up average numbers? Some regression was expected. Just not as much as we'd been seeing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: Some regression was expected. Just not as much as we'd been seeing. Seems pretty in line with law of averages: 20th league wide by points % last season, 20th league wide by points % this season. We just have altered the way we are achieving it. we certainly didn’t advance the roster much in the offseason beyond where we finished last season: it was mostly a run-back. I would say that league relative, we clearly supplemented on the low end. Edited November 7, 2023 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, Thorny said: Is 17 out of 32 a pass? If the team is average, is that a pass? Actually asking Context needed, I think. I think we all want our team to be above average in all areas. You been pretty vocal as playoffs as your pass/fail line. A small number of average teams make the playoffs. A lot of people have subscribed to the idea “all we need is average goaltending” Adams has acted like our goalies are better options than the goalies he could have acquired. Average goaltending supports that premise a lot better than bad goaltending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Context needed, I think. I think we all want our team to be above average in all areas. You been pretty vocal as playoffs as your pass/fail line. A small number of average teams make the playoffs. A lot of people have subscribed to the idea “all we need is average goaltending” Adams has acted like our goalies are better options than the goalies he could have acquired. Average goaltending supports that premise a lot better than bad goaltending. And presumably took the necessary steps to supplement the roster to make up for the cache we’d expend in getting our goalie output to average levels? Or else, smartly deduced that internal improvement would be sufficient to organically grow said cache? At least it’s good to know figuring out whether the goaltending approach was prudent is rather easy: we can see how the team performs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, Weave said: None of the 3 have been consistent enough to depend upon. That is a problem. I only mean that of our losses, I felt it was the skaters were flat (or just playing dumb) and let us down, not the goalies. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, SwampD said: I only mean that of our losses, I felt it was the skaters were flat (or just playing dumb) and let us down, not the goalies. Stop ruining a good narrative with facts! What is wrong with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, Weave said: None of the 3 have been consistent enough to depend upon. That is a problem. This is true if the standard you demand is “good” goaltending as opposed to adequate goaltending. Good goaltending is something maybe 10 teams have. I think the Sabres goaltending has been decent enough this year to deliver the 4 in 6 @GASabresIUFAN is calling for if the Sabres skaters are good. It’s the Sabres skaters that have failed. I say this fully expecting that situation not to last. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 58 minutes ago, Radar said: Does "6K" have a real name? Asking for a friend. Yeah it’s UPL 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Hank said: Stop ruining a good narrative with facts! What is wrong with you? Narrative? WTF is that? Do I have a story to tell? Do I have something to be gained by being concerned that we still need to carry 3 goalies on tje roster? Lame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: This is true if the standard you demand is “good” goaltending as opposed to adequate goaltending. Good goaltending is something maybe 10 teams have. I think the Sabres goaltending has been decent enough this year to deliver the 4 in 6 @GASabresIUFAN is calling for if the Sabres skaters are good. It’s the Sabres skaters that have failed. I say this fully expecting that situation not to last. Failed? Or failed to regress as little offensively as KA thought they would upon committing to team wide defence? I’m not sure I could classify the forwards as failing when they are putting up score differentials in the ball park of last season If the bar for the forwards was “fix the goalie output and also score like lightning similar to last season” I’d argue the GM potentially set them *up* to fail. And then the failing isn’t on the players at all. (This is a hypothetical obviously. Say we finish 41-41. But we are 6-6. There’s a lot of runway left) Edited November 7, 2023 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, SwampD said: I only mean that of our losses, I felt it was the skaters were flat (or just playing dumb) and let us down, not the goalies. Do you expect the opposition to score when they come in on a short handed break? I do. It’s damned near automatic. The D has tightened up somewhat and the results reflect it. The goaltending hasn’t really tightened up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, dudacek said: Context needed, I think. I think we all want our team to be above average in all areas. You been pretty vocal as playoffs as your pass/fail line. A small number of average teams make the playoffs. A lot of people have subscribed to the idea “all we need is average goaltending” Adams has acted like our goalies are better options than the goalies he could have acquired. Average goaltending supports that premise a lot better than bad goaltending. Also forgive me but I thought that was most everyone’s pass fail line: correct me if I’m wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, SwampD said: I only mean that of our losses, I felt it was the skaters were flat (or just playing dumb) and let us down, not the goalies. Maybe not let us down, as in not actively bad - that seems to be the only line anyone cares about regarding the goaltending: don’t be awful. If we had average goaltending, average D, average offence, and they played consistently average every single game, we’d be an average team in the middle of the pack, with nothing ever letting us down, and also a .500 record average goaltending is only ok if we don’t need to regress our offence to average to do it otherwise it’s a shell game Edited November 7, 2023 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 23 minutes ago, Thorny said: Seems pretty in line with law of averages: 20th league wide by points % last season, 20th league wide by points % this season. We just have altered the way we are achieving it. we certainly didn’t advance the roster much in the offseason beyond where we finished last season: it was mostly a run-back. I would say that league relative, we clearly supplemented on the low end. fair points. this is a frustrating reality. also - and it's sorta become my sabre fan mantra - this team misses jack quinn like a mofo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: fair points. this is a frustrating reality. also - and it's sorta become my sabre fan mantra - this team misses jack quinn like a mofo. Yeap. Most of the few (but imo important) things I disagreed with re: Adams offseason were things that went against *my* desired strategy. Oh well. Adams is likely right, anyways, I know diddly. Sitting on our hands re: Quinn and the no-doubt expected improvement he was to provide for this team seemed to me to be in opposition to *KA’s* plan. An internal contradiction, imo 20 minutes ago, inkman said: Yeah it’s UPL Youpi-el 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Thorny said: Maybe not let us down, as in not actively bad - that seems to be the only line anyone cares about regarding the goaltending: don’t be awful. If we had average goaltending, average D, average offence, and they played consistently average every single game, we’d be an average team in the middle of the pack, with nothing ever letting us down, and also a .500 record average goaltending is only ok if we don’t need to regress our offence to average to do it otherwise it’s a shell game I see what you’re getting at here and you may be right, but I don’t think that’s automatic. I think the evidence for what we’re aiming for was in the Leafs game: the Sabres play fast and score a lot, the goalie makes enough key saves that we win 5-4 instead of lose 6-5. I mean, there’s obviously far more variation over the course of the year, but that’s the broadbrush expectation of what this roster could do with average goaltending. The team issue has been the skaters too often being cute (Montreal) or listless (Philly) moreso than them being too focused on defence (NYI) or the goalies being bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said: Bazinga! This is sort of a bummer, since last year's team made me think "if they can only get average goaltending ..." I really think you need to throw out the first four games, both from a team perspective and from a goaltending perspective. As I said upthread, the team was terrible out of the gate.... the whole team. So it's kind of harsh to pin all of that on Levi. Let's see what happens going forward. If Granato has "fixed" the team and they are playing better as a unit, you very well may see an improvement in Levi's play as well. If you take those first few games out of the mix the Sabres are playing decent hockey. Forget the past, just play better going forward, and they will be fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 They need to enrole every one in the Tre-White Academy. It worked for Sutton. At least for a while. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 7, 2023 Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: They need to enrole every one in the Tre-White Academy. It worked for Sutton. At least for a while. Posting this in the thread was both necessary and inevitable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Weave said: None of the 3 have been consistent enough to depend upon. That is a problem. So you understood Swamp's double negative? I had to stop rereading it after five tries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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