GDT: Sabres @ Maple Leafs: November4, 2023 @ 7:00PM, NHL Network, MSG-B, and NBCS-PH

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Maybe Savoie takes his spot tonight 

Sure, replace one of our few players with any physical presence with a 5’9” rookie coming off an injury.  
 

[Crusader1969]

20 minutes ago, elijah said:

this thread is quite dreadful

it’s game 11 with a young team playing with a different focus than last year, there’s some growing pains 

i don’t know how confident i am that they’ll make the playoffs but the tone in this thread i’d say is a bit over the top and alarming, let’s see 30 or so games before we decide that the seasons going nowhere imo 🤷‍♂️ 

I love reading the emotional rollercoaster that some posters go through in a season.  
in especially looking forward to the “time to trade Power” thread that someone will soon create. No doubt that we will age about as well as the trade Mitts, Thompson and Dahlin threads did 

as for tonight, Leafs are a 4 man top heavy team with lots of problems among their defenders.   

hopefully DG doesn’t anchor Cozens with a couple of AHL / NHL tweeners and we get something of a top 9 going 

also would be good if DG reminds them that the game starts at 7pm!  

 

[Huckleberry]

I see us winning this one 5-1 , with 4 goals in first period 🙂

[elijah]

17 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I am on record as saying I will wait to Christmas to make a full judgement.  Right now I have every right to vent about this “2034 going for the playoffs “ version of the Sabres.  
 

What the hell is the different focus?   I’d love to hear about it.  Do tell me what the tone should be after getting beat by Philly for 6 periods.  
 

If they just play and do nothing for 20 more games we will know we’re they stand at year end, and it won’t be good.  

If you’re going to discount Wednesday’s game as getting beat by the Flyers, surely it’s only fair to acknowledge that yesterday the game was actually quite even, if not the Sabres slightly better, despite the score saying otherwise right? 

As far as the different focus, maybe it’s not showing as well on the ice as we’d hope for but I think through media interactions and glimpses of play that DG is trying to develop the guys into more defensively sound players after letting them fly free all last year. It’s an adjustment, it’s going to take a little time

I’m not saying it’s got to be all sunshine and flowers, the start is actually enough where I’m getting a little angst that maybe the playoff expectations may be a let down. But that being said, it’s just the slightest bit of a worry because after all it’s only game 11. Can we give it until your Christmas benchmark before the collective meltdowns among fans start to happen? There’s 71 games left. They went on an 8 game losing streak last year and recovered enough to be alive through game 80. 

There’s things to be concerned about surely, I won’t be as ignorant as to say there’s no reason to complain. But the reaction and sentiment in this thread specifically just seems to be a bit premature for where we’re at in the season

[nucci]

16 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I love reading the emotional rollercoaster that some posters go through in a season.  
in especially looking forward to the “time to trade Power” thread that someone will soon create. No doubt that we will age about as well as the trade Mitts, Thompson and Dahlin threads did 

as for tonight, Leafs are a 4 man top heavy team with lots of problems among their defenders.   

hopefully DG doesn’t anchor Cozens with a couple of AHL / NHL tweeners and we get something of a top 9 going 

also would be good if DG reminds them that the game starts at 7pm!  

 

Players should know what time the game starts. Don't need a coach for that

[inkman]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Greenway needs to go back to the bottom 6.  Thompson needs skilled linemates, not a slow guy with hands of stone.  

Or a rookie that has looked completely overwhelmed minus the two tap in goals he had.  
 

I’ve kept my mouth shut about Biro but I never understood the orgs fascination with him.  The Penn St Pegula tie is looking sus.  He’s a good AHL player but I never saw a skill set that screamed NHLer.  People have mentioned his 200 ft game.  I haven’t see it.  He’s a good offensive player in the AHL.  Period.  Not to mention he’s been playing with world class prospects every game of his career.  

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

I’m guessing one of two things happen:

-Sabres play great and win something like 4-2 or 5-3 and we hear they’re a young team finding their groove and simplifying their game all the way to 10-10 at the quarter-way mark

-Sabres get their doors blown off and we hear they’re a young team still finding their groove and needing to simplify their game all the way to 10-10 at the quarter-way mark

Maybe Donny should start making changes to his staff because something isn’t working and the time to figure it out was in September, not November. 

Commenting that it was nice to be able to relax in July and then being 11 games into a season with AT LEAST a quarter of your forwards needing replacement should be a fireable offense if something doesn’t change quickly with this teams performance. 

Go Sabres. ***** the Leafs. 
 

 

Blow leaves blow 

Twitter alternates between “burn it all” and “we are so back” on a literal game by game basis. Schedule today is for the “We Back” memes to be flowing. I wonder if people ever get tired of the yo-yo-ing

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

So much going against them tonight.

tough game last night

5 D last night means they’ll be gassed tonight

Bryson assuredly in the lineup tonight

Too many kids in the lineup that were overwhelmed, and likely will be again.

No reason to plan around watching this game.

We will win this game. The ups and downs have been the story so far 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Just win baby! All will be forgotten if we do 

This is what will happen and exactly what happens when we generally lose and win, that’s why it gets so extreme. The anger after the losses is off the wall and the celebration after a win is equally so. At least it seems that way reading 

[zow2]

Baffles me that the Sabres don’t come out flying every game with all their skilled guys. Other than a proven goalie i’m told every summer we have as much talent if not more on the roster and in the pipeline as most teams.

[Pimlach]

48 minutes ago, elijah said:

If you’re going to discount Wednesday’s game as getting beat by the Flyers, surely it’s only fair to acknowledge that yesterday the game was actually quite even, if not the Sabres slightly better, despite the score saying otherwise right? 

As far as the different focus, maybe it’s not showing as well on the ice as we’d hope for but I think through media interactions and glimpses of play that DG is trying to develop the guys into more defensively sound players after letting them fly free all last year. It’s an adjustment, it’s going to take a little time

I’m not saying it’s got to be all sunshine and flowers, the start is actually enough where I’m getting a little angst that maybe the playoff expectations may be a let down. But that being said, it’s just the slightest bit of a worry because after all it’s only game 11. Can we give it until your Christmas benchmark before the collective meltdowns among fans start to happen? There’s 71 games left. They went on an 8 game losing streak last year and recovered enough to be alive through game 80. 

There’s things to be concerned about surely, I won’t be as ignorant as to say there’s no reason to complain. But the reaction and sentiment in this thread specifically just seems to be a bit premature for where we’re at in the season

I thought they were outplayed for all 6 periods.  We won one game with good goaltending and a lot of luck.  Several shots got past UPL, and were saved by other defenders.  You get outshot 40-15 and win, you are lucky.  The only period we almost won was the 6th, but even then the Flyers scored and choked the life out of us.  
 

The new focus on defense is apparently under way and will take time to learn.  I prefer building from the back, defense first, but whatever.  We shall see how this goes.  We are better defensively by the addition of E Johnson and the use of Tage and Tuch on the PK.  Other than that we have a lot of work to do. 
 

My biggest issue after 11 games is the home record.  Once again they have a big home game, they get 16k+ in the building, and they get slammed 3-0 in the first.  The Boo’s are painful to hear but deserved.  The national exposure is back to very negative right now.  Who really thinks they did enough in the off season?  
 

I’ll still be posting by the Holidays and hopefully we are in the race.  

[bob_sauve28]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is what will happen and exactly what happens when we generally lose and win, that’s why it gets so extreme. The anger after the losses is off the wall and the celebration after a win is equally so. At least it seems that way reading 

Totally! I mean the picture of UPL holding the Stanly cup? 

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Sure, replace one of our few players with any physical presence with a 5’9” rookie coming off an injury.  
 

The fanbase has been bewitched. I'm texted by my buddy every day some version of "maybe they should try bringing up Kulich to fix the problem." He's a smart guy. He has a new idea every 2 weeks but they're all rochester players who've never played a second of nhl hockey!

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

So much going against them tonight.

tough game last night

5 D last night means they’ll be gassed tonight

Bryson assuredly in the lineup tonight

Too many kids in the lineup that were overwhelmed, and likely will be again.

No reason to plan around watching this game.

Which is why they'll win tonight.  

2 hours ago, Weave said:

And we really don’t have any of that anywhere in the system.

But, isn't that supposed to be a big part of their drafting seemingly (not really, but it sure seems that way) only highly skilled undersized forwards?  You draft what you're good at identifying and then trade some of that for what you need - grit.  They've made 2 trades in that style (Greenway and Stillman) but they need more of it.

Would like to see them make another trade for another Greenway and start dressing him in Okposo's slot after the Bruins game.  (Know it isn't going to happen; but one can dream, right?)

[Derrico]

19 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Who really thinks they did enough in the off season?  
 

 

Huge missed opportunity imo.

Feels like the way things finished last year we were a big addition or two from taking right off.  Instead, we got Clifton and Johnson (although EJ has really helped the PK).

We knew before free agency that Quinn was going to be out long term but the answer seems to have been not to trade VO.  Nobody else brought in.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Derrico

[Buffalonill]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The fanbase has been bewitched. I'm texted by my buddy every day some version of "maybe they should try bringing up Kulich to fix the problem." He's a smart guy. He has a new idea every 2 weeks but they're all rochester players who've never played a second of nhl hockey!

Usually in today's nhl the rookies make impacts at what point do You take off the Training wheels off and just go.

 What other options do we have They're not going to make any trades

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The fanbase has been bewitched. I'm texted by my buddy every day some version of "maybe they should try bringing up Kulich to fix the problem." He's a smart guy. He has a new idea every 2 weeks but they're all rochester players who've never played a second of nhl hockey!

Honestly, I was, against my better judgment, more less buying into the feasibility of a run-it-back plan this offseason (aside from in Goal, obviously) until being rudely slapped awake by the Quinn injury. I can buy internal improvement as focus, but when you do literally nothing to replace a key component of where that improvement is supposed to come from..that was rather eye-opening and had me considering “snake oil” for the first time. You have to freaking try. If they did and the solution was..nothing..then it’s just disappointing on two fronts.

[nfreeman]

Serious question:  what if they come out in a coma again, get smoked by the Leafs, the only cheering in the building is by Leafs fans and the boos rain down again from the Sabres fans?  Does TP do something precipitous?

I don't think he will, but the likelihood is greater than zero.

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  what if they come out in a coma again, get smoked by the Leafs, the only cheering in the building is by Leafs fans and the boos rain down again from the Sabres fans?  Does TP do something precipitous?

I don't think he will, but the likelihood is greater than zero.

I just can’t see it given the lengths and timing of all these contracts. I can’t imagine even Terry is dunce enough to allow his management and coaching team to map out and pre-pay that sort of deposit without an unnaturally long runway.

Others have opined that the amount of rope these guys have would make a lot of people uncomfortable and I’m starting to think it’s true. While shocking: the dark side of a rebuild that straps itself to the timeline of a singular 21 year old Star Wars fan is a pathway to many time frames some would consider to be…unnatural

Edited November 4, 2023 by Thorny

[Spoonman]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Best decade was the very first one.  No doubt.  It took 3 years to get  “good “.   We are working on 12 or 13 now, just to get mediocre and make the playoffs.  
 

It’s sickening. I am sick of it.  
 

I like many have been a fan since I could watch (or listen to RJ) - for me in the early 70's.

Here is da facts on SABRES franchise:

Owners: 5 (not including 2003 NHL control after Rigas kerfuffle)

GM's:  9 with longest tenured being (you guessed it) - Darcy w/ 16 yrs..

Coaches: 20 in 53 yrs. = 2.65 yrs. in the job on average - non sans Lindy for more than 268 games (Muckler). 

Playoff games: in 52 yrs. made playoffs in 29 of those yrs.  =  255 post season games, or 4.9 games per post season - basically, knocked out in first round (4-1) on average. Alternately, if we only consider the years the Sabres made the playoffs (29 of 53 yrs), they played 8.8 games on average per post season, so made it to the 2nd round on average.

Seasons missed playoffs:  23 of 52 years, and none in (all together now) 12 yrs...

OK Spoony, what does this all mean?

Let's ask Pat.

 

 

[Spoonman]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Twitter alternates between “burn it all” and “we are so back” on a literal game by game basis. Schedule today is for the “We Back” memes to be flowing. I wonder if people ever get tired of the yo-yo-ing

Agree, and would add that Sabres fans keep putting hearts into teams and players (we want to love them), followed by disappointment, and ultimately, playing with the Lottery simulators. I will not stop being a Sabres Fan, but I get the yo-yo-ing, to a point. Fans will fan, but one thing that is needed is some time for facts to be assessed (but again Fans gonna fan... so wind up your yo yos, here we go again tonight).

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

Agree, and would add that Sabres fans keep putting hearts into teams and players (we want to love them), followed by disappointment, and ultimately, playing with the Lottery simulators. I will not stop being a Sabres Fan, but I get the yo-yo-ing, to a point. Fans will fan, but one thing that is needed is some time for facts to be assessed (but again Fans gonna fan... so wind up your yo yos, here we go again tonight).

Ya I mean I don’t have a problem with it at all, and it obviously has nothing to do with the actual results of the team. I just imagine it must be a very nervy existence 

[Thorny]

Sometimes seems like the entire tenure needs to be relitigated after every loss and win. The best cliche in sports, because it’s true, is “you are what your record says”. It is quite literally the best explanation of what we actually are and have actually achieved

the Sabres this season are 5-6. (75 point pace)

during the 3 years of Adams “plan” the Sabres are 79-78-18

(82 points per season average)

during the 4 years of Adams tenure overall the Sabres are 94-112-25

(76 point pace per season average)

that’s what the Sabres are, you can focus on any one of those you want depending on your leanings 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

35 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Huge missed opportunity imo.

Feels like the way things finished last year we were a big addition or two from taking right off.  Instead, we got Clifton and Johnson (although EJ has really helped the PK).

We knew before free agency that Quinn was going to be out long term but the answer seems to have been not to trade VO.  Nobody else brought in.

The 2nd valid criticism of Adams is that much like Regier couldn't adjust a plan after it was made (wtf didn't they re-sign Zubrus after the 1AC and the 1BC both walked?), nor would Botterill (wtf didn't he use Berglund's money on a player that would help that team after he caught the break and he walked away from the team?) there doesn't seem to be a significant adjustment to the "plan" when conditions on the ground indicate that something that was expected and planned for isn't happening.  (Quinn would be a huge piece of what they're doing were he healthy.  They knew months ago that he won't be until December at the earliest.)

Like Adams and do believe he's building something special here.  But there are times it's frustrating to be a fan of this team.

Btw, still say this team will make the playoffs.

[nfreeman]

25 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I just can’t see it given the lengths and timing of all these contracts. I can’t imagine even Terry is dunce enough to allow his management and coaching team to map out and pre-pay that sort of deposit without an unnaturally long runway.

Others have opined that the amount of rope these guys have would make a lot of people uncomfortable and I’m starting to think it’s true. While shocking: the dark side of a rebuild that straps itself to the timeline of a singular 21 year old Star Wars fan is a pathway to many time frames some would consider to be…unnatural

I agree that TP has most likely decided that he trusts KA and that he's going to give KA plenty of time.  However:

- It's quite possible that TP doesn't have the same level of confidence in DG.

- We've seen TP get PO'd and fire people suddenly.

I would be pretty surprised if TP were to fire KA during the season -- or even next summer for that matter.  But could he get in KA's ear and pressure him to make a change at coach, especially if they keep pooping the bed at home for another 6 weeks or so and they are bottom-5 in the conference at Xmas?  Would anyone be shocked if that were to happen?