OT: Is it time for a new pizza thread?

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Last I knew, Picasso’s, Santoro’s,  Just Pizza, Imperial, Bocce, One Pie, and most other premium places made their own dough. I know La Nova was contemplating using dough made to their recipe by Latinas and they probably went that route. 
With a he struggle finding labor, the cost of a mixer and the eccentricities of dough making, I’d bet it’s costs smart for most little guys to use Al Cohen’s dough distributed by local vendors.

 Now we have nothing to argue about.  Lol

[...]

So, @GASabresIUFAN, it turns out you might be on to something with the sourdough. If the pizza places making their own dough are keeping some of the giant dough blob to start a new giant dough blob, that is a sourdough. Never occurred to me as a typical sourdough loaf has different texture and flavor but apparently the process is used across dough types.

See: Sourdough Baking | King Arthur Baking

If you read the page, it mentions the process relies on "wild yeast", which is the yeast in the air. Combine that with the mineral content of regional water and you have an argument in favor of locally derived flavour which we talked about a little already.

Edited July 20, 2023 by ...

[Doohickie]

14 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

The original Boces on Bailey is always my go to, to me there is no others like it. 

Another good 1 for the atmosphere and overall experience is Santoras Pizza Pub & Grill on Transit road. Really cool atmosphere imo.

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong I but seem to think our family's go-to when I was a kid was a Santora's takeout on George Urban in what is now the Tops Plaza at Geo Urban and Union.  Back then it wasn't Tops Plaza though; there used to be a Kings Dept Store where Tops is now.

When we got to be teens we used to walk/ride bikes to Roma's Restaurant on Genesee (now 33 Speakeasy) and get pizza.  Small pepperoni was $2.50; large was $3.50.  My first job was working in the kitchen at Roma's where I learned how to make the magic pie.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Doohickie

[GoPuckYourself]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong I but seem to think our family's go-to when I was a kid was a Santora's takeout on George Urban in what is now the Tops Plaza at Geo Urban and Union.  Back then it wasn't Tops Plaza though; there used to be a Kings Dept Store where Tops is now.

When we got to be teens we used to walk/ride bikes to Roma's Restaurant on Genesee (now 33 Speakeasy) and get pizza.  Small pepperoni was $2.50; large was $3.50.  My first job was working in the kitchen at Roma's where I learned how to make the magic pie.

There are a bunch of Santoras all over, the 1 that I used to go to was the 1 another poster reminded me of and that was the Santoras off or on Millersport Highway. It was a tiny place next to a dentist and another store front but the pizza was excellent, that was in the early 90's. There is also the George Urban location that i may have ate at once but don't really recall since I never lived close to there. This location is on transit road and called Santoras pizza, pub and grill, if you and your wife/girlfriend are looking for just a nice atmosphere , some pizza or a cool bar they have it all, it's just before the Eastern Hills Mall or Clarence mall as some people call it. Cool seating outside, great food imo, nice bar and like I said the crowds are mixed so it's not all young kids, not all old timers but a bunch of all different types usually. I don't work there but I'll definitely bump up a place if I think it's decent and deserves it.... You should check it out sometime even if it's just with a few buds (friends...Not weed).

Edited July 21, 2023 by GoPuckYourself

[Randall Flagg]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:04 PM, tom webster said:

Last I knew, Picasso’s, Santoro’s,  Just Pizza, Imperial, Bocce, One Pie, and most other premium places made their own dough. I know La Nova was contemplating using dough made to their recipe by Latinas and they probably went that route. 
With a he struggle finding labor, the cost of a mixer and the eccentricities of dough making, I’d bet it’s costs smart for most little guys to use Al Cohen’s dough distributed by local vendors.

Picasso's did not make their own dough in 2012

[tom webster]

49 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Picasso's did not make their own dough in 2012

I was told they went back to making it but it wouldn’t surprise me. Someone else told me Santoro’s doesn’t at all locations either.

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Picasso's did not make their own dough in 2012

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

I was told they went back to making it but it wouldn’t surprise me. Someone else told me Santoro’s doesn’t at all locations either.

I trust that scratch dough made by a skilled … dough maker (?) is superior to an excellent frozen dough product.

Otoh, top-end frozen dough products are *pretty* damn good.

Or even if not frozen, just commercial refrigerated dough bought at wholesale.

[That Aud Smell]

By way of corollaries:

I have found it largely impossible to improve on Duncan Hines brownies by making scratch brownies.

Giant Eagle sheet cake is as good as any cake I’ve had from a mom/pop bakery.

Baked goods and baking are curiously susceptible to being scaled up and even industrialized to an extent.

[Zamboni]

30 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

By way of corollaries:

I have found it largely impossible to improve on Duncan Hines brownies by making scratch brownies.

Giant Eagle sheet cake is as good as any cake I’ve had from a mom/pop bakery.

Baked goods and baking are curiously susceptible to being scaled up and even industrialized to an extent.

And I have found that homemade brownies that are not filled with preservatives and potentially hazardous additives… Are way better tasting than Duncan Hines or little Debbie etc. To each his own.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Zamboni

[Weave]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

By way of corollaries:

I have found it largely impossible to improve on Duncan Hines brownies by making scratch brownies.

Giant Eagle sheet cake is as good as any cake I’ve had from a mom/pop bakery.

Baked goods and baking are curiously susceptible to being scaled up and even industrialized to an extent.

A very close friend of mine got into some serious hot water with his wife when he commented on how it is damned near impossible to improve on a box cake when cooking at home…….

while he was eating a scratch made cake his wife had made that day.

 

I don’t let him live that down.  Hopefully she has.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

A very close friend of mine got into some serious hot water with his wife when he commented on how it is damned near impossible to improve on a box cake when cooking at home…….

while he was eating a scratch made cake his wife had made that day.

 

I don’t let him live that down.  Hopefully she has.

Cake’s a different matter, in my experience. For whatever reason.

2 hours ago, Zamboni said:

And I have found that homemade brownies that are not filled with preservatives and potentially hazardous additives… Are way better tasting than Duncan Hines or little Debbie etc. To each his own.

“To each their own … but some people are idiots.”

[PASabreFan]

I think the answer to Smell's preference is how food is engineered to be addictive nowadays. It explains how our grandparents could eat a three inch square piece o' cake and drink four ounces of black coffee and be happy.

Edited July 22, 2023 by PASabreFan

[JoeSchmoe]

2 hours ago, Zamboni said:

And I have found that homemade brownies that are not filled with preservatives and potentially hazardous additives… Are way better tasting than Duncan Hines or little Debbie etc. To each his own.

I think Aud was talking about Duncan Hines cake mixes. There's no preservatives in cake mix... I tend to agree with what he said. I also agree with what you said. I hate the taste of preservatives in baked goods.

I think the real game changer between store and handmade would be if the handmade dough had some special yeasts.

On that note, does anyone have any yeast tips for homemade dough. I've always thought my effort I put in to make home dough have been largely unrewarded for the same reason Aud suggests. If there was a secret ingredient, I'm thinking it'd have to be the yeast.

[PASabreFan]

Sugar, Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Emulsified Palm Shortening (Palm Oil, Propylene Glycol Mono- and Diesters of Fats and Fatty Acids, Mono- and Diglycerides, Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate), Leavening (Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium Phosphate Monohydrate), Wheat Starch, Contains 2% or Less of: Salt, Cellulose Gum, Xanthan Gum, Dextrose, Artificial Flavor, Yellow 5, Red 40.

[JoeSchmoe]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I think the answer to Smell's preference is how food is engineered to be addictive nowadays. It explains how our grandparents could eat a three inch square piece o' cake and drink four ounces of black coffee and be happy.

Or was it just they were cheap MF's? Mostly out of necessity, but cheap no less.

Maybe after another year or two in this economy, my inflation grandparent diet I seem to be forced into eating will get me that beach body I haven't seen since my early 20s!

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

 

I think the real game changer between store and handmade would be if the handmade dough had some special yeasts.

On that note, does anyone have any yeast tips for homemade dough. I've always thought my effort I put in to make home dough have been largely unrewarded for the same reason Aud suggests. If there was a secret ingredient, I'm thinking it'd have to be the yeast.

Fresh rapid rise yeasts.  Don’t use a packet that’s been in your refrigerator for 4 months.  And overnight ferments.

Learn how to use a poolish and biga.  They are essentially overnight rise dough starters.  And work wonders for flavor development.

If you are really interested in how to make bread like a pro, find the book A Bread Baker’s Apprentice.  

[...]

5 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

By way of corollaries:

I have found it largely impossible to improve on Duncan Hines brownies by making scratch brownies.

Giant Eagle sheet cake is as good as any cake I’ve had from a mom/pop bakery.

Baked goods and baking are curiously susceptible to being scaled up and even industrialized to an extent.

[...]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I think Aud was talking about Duncan Hines cake mixes. There's no preservatives in cake mix... I tend to agree with what he said. I also agree with what you said. I hate the taste of preservatives in baked goods.

I think the real game changer between store and handmade would be if the handmade dough had some special yeasts.

On that note, does anyone have any yeast tips for homemade dough. I've always thought my effort I put in to make home dough have been largely unrewarded for the same reason Aud suggests. If there was a secret ingredient, I'm thinking it'd have to be the yeast.

Quality of the flour and other ingredients beyond the yeast counts as well. There are so many variables in bread-making and it takes practice and then more practice.

Anyway learn how to use this yeast, like how to proof it, mind the temperature, etc. and you'll be on your way. Would recommend a quality butter for the loaf cut fresh out of the oven. 

[...]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Sugar, Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Emulsified Palm Shortening (Palm Oil, Propylene Glycol Mono- and Diesters of Fats and Fatty Acids, Mono- and Diglycerides, Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate), Leavening (Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium Phosphate Monohydrate), Wheat Starch, Contains 2% or Less of: Salt, Cellulose Gum, Xanthan Gum, Dextrose, Artificial Flavor, Yellow 5, Red 40.

Yes. It's a chemical slurry posing as a baked good. We have to unlearn what we think "tastes good" (Pandora's box: opened). Once you recognize the difference between said chemical slurry and good old fashioned simple, hand made recipes you will always taste the chemical slurry when you have some.

Edited July 23, 2023 by ...

[LGR4GM]

On 7/20/2023 at 2:25 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Sour dough isn’t the correct term I agree, but it was the only way that came to mind to describe the “aging” of the dough.

It's dough proofing. When you make fresh pizza dough, you measure it out and let it proof overnight so it gets to where it needs to be. You can also cheat and leave it out for a few hours. Unproofed dough doesn't stretch as well and impo tastes chewey.

[That Aud Smell]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I think the answer to Smell's preference is how food is engineered to be addictive nowadays. It explains how our grandparents could eat a three inch square piece o' cake and drink four ounces of black coffee and be happy.

Addictive chemicals you say? *Cuckoo*

 

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, ... said:

We have to unlearn what we think "tastes good" (Pandora's box: opened). Once you recognize the difference between said chemical slurry and good old fashioned simple, hand made recipes you will always taste the chemical slurry when you have some.

We cook with and eat mostly whole foods (but don’t shop there much).

And I stand by my Duncan Hines brownie and Giant Eagle sheet cake takes above. 

[JoeSchmoe]

3 hours ago, ... said:

Quality of the flour and other ingredients beyond the yeast counts as well. There are so many variables in bread-making and it takes practice and then more practice.

Anyway learn how to use this yeast, like how to proof it, mind the temperature, etc. and you'll be on your way. Would recommend a quality butter for the loaf cut fresh out of the oven. 

Sorry... I meant for pizza dough, not bread. That Fleischmann's yeast is my go to, but I've never been blown away by the results vs what I can buy at the store. I typically cook at a long preheated oven at 550F or a Kamado BBQ at 600-650.

I've always used bread flour in the past... never 00 dough though, so that's my next move.

I figure though that someone here has a recipe for really good Buffalo pizza dough. Any thoughts?

[Doohickie]

On 7/22/2023 at 12:35 PM, That Aud Smell said:

I trust that scratch dough made by a skilled … dough maker (?) is superior to an excellent frozen dough product.

Otoh, top-end frozen dough products are *pretty* damn good.

Or even if not frozen, just commercial refrigerated dough bought at wholesale.

When I worked at Roma's on Genesee Street in the 1970s the dough was made by 16- and 17-year olds according to the recipe of, and supervised by, Ricci, the owner (or his brother-in-law who was the de-facto kitchen manager).  We made some of the best pizza dough around, if I do say so myself.

[Claude Balls]

Two words for the peeps on the east side of Rochester.....Perinton Pizza. They do not skimp on the toppings.