Axios.com: MLS will overtake NHL As USA's #4 Sport

[MattPie]

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Not sure if this is a thing in WNY, but a lot of bars and craft brewers open early on the weekends to host soccer watching parties for the Euro matches, and they're a pretty big draw.  For a lot of people they don't know much about soccer; they just want a beer at 9 am on Sunday (and due to a law passed during Covid that's now possible in Texas).

Not really WNY, but the Bike Bar in Ithaca (it's bicycle-themed strangely enough) has the games on in the morning. I wouldn't know if I didn't follow them on Insta (they do occasional bike rides) however.

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

The TV ratings for the MLS in Canada are terrible. Nobody is watching, few people care. And yet they magically have these huge valuations for the teams. I don't know, but the whole thing seems like a deck of cards that will crash at some point.

Pretty sure MLS teams are privately owned.  So there is no requirement for having the books open to public inspection.  Until somebody puts in a bid to buy a team, the valuation of a team is just somebody's estimate.  And usually that estimate will reflect the biases the appraiser has.  MLS (and their partners) have a great incentive to overestimate the value of the franchises because it makes them seem more popular than they are.

At least for now, we don't have a wealth tax in this country, so there are no consequences whatsover in overvaluing a privately held team.  But should an owner go for a loan/financing for the team, the bank will see the books and know what the team is actually valued at.  And the tax man sees the revenues and expenses but those are supposed to be held as confidential between the taxpayer and the IRS.  But neither of those transactions will make the books public.

Forbes valuations placed on sports teams are held to be accurate, but except in very limited cases even those are just mildly educated WAGs.

But, to have an idea of what an MLS team is worth, take a look at the expansion fee paid by that new team.  That should be a reasonable proxy of what at least 1 owner sees as a value.

[SwampD]

What does this mean to the Sabres making the playoffs next year?

59 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Pretty sure MLS teams are privately owned.  So there is no requirement for having the books open to public inspection.  Until somebody puts in a bid to buy a team, the valuation of a team is just somebody's estimate.  And usually that estimate will reflect the biases the appraiser has.  MLS (and their partners) have a great incentive to overestimate the value of the franchises because it makes them seem more popular than they are.

At least for now, we don't have a wealth tax in this country, so there are no consequences whatsover in overvaluing a privately held team.  But should an owner go for a loan/financing for the team, the bank will see the books and know what the team is actually valued at.  And the tax man sees the revenues and expenses but those are supposed to be held as confidential between the taxpayer and the IRS.  But neither of those transactions will make the books public.

Forbes valuations placed on sports teams are held to be accurate, but except in very limited cases even those are just mildly educated WAGs.

But, to have an idea of what an MLS team is worth, take a look at the expansion fee paid by that new team.  That should be a reasonable proxy of what at least 1 owner sees as a value.

What is a WAG?

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, MattPie said:

Not really WNY, but the Bike Bar in Ithaca (it's bicycle-themed strangely enough) has the games on in the morning. I wouldn't know if I didn't follow them on Insta (they do occasional bike rides) however.

Let me guess, the hipsters on their fixies hang out there?

3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

What does this mean to the Sabres making the playoffs next year?

What is a WAG?

Wild Ass Guess

[MattPie]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Let me guess, the hipsters on their fixies hang out there?

Somewhat. 🙂 The hills here are too steep for fixies to be a big thing, lol.

My local gravel ride happy hour has been there before, along with the local MTB club. It's a bar in downtown Ithaca that doesn't blast music or serve Lite beer, so most of the people aren't there for the bikes. 🙂

[Doohickie]

10 hours ago, MattPie said:

Somewhat. 🙂 The hills here are too steep for fixies to be a big thing, lol.

My local gravel ride happy hour has been there before, along with the local MTB club. It's a bar in downtown Ithaca that doesn't blast music or serve Lite beer, so most of the people aren't there for the bikes. 🙂

That's true; fixies are passé.  Gravel grinders are where it's at these days.

[MattPie]

9 hours ago, Doohickie said:

That's true; fixies are passé.  Gravel grinders are where it's at these days.

Very true, which is why I have one. It'll be sad when it's not cool any more because I really quite like the bike lol. I hear ATBs are the next new thing; all the versatility of a gravel bike without the expensive integrated controls!

[Eleven]

On 5/29/2023 at 11:29 PM, Doohickie said:

Not sure if this is a thing in WNY, but a lot of bars and craft brewers open early on the weekends to host soccer watching parties for the Euro matches, and they're a pretty big draw.  For a lot of people they don't know much about soccer; they just want a beer at 9 am on Sunday (and due to a law passed during Covid that's now possible in Texas). 

Mes Que on Hertel Ave. (with an awesome breakfast sandwich); Banshee downtown.

[That Aud Smell]

On 5/29/2023 at 1:17 AM, ndirish1978 said:

The MLS is not the #4 league right now and has a lot of ground to make up to catch the NHL in revenue. The NHL made about 3x what MLS made last year. The NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL can all claim to be the top league in their respective sports, the MLS will never be able to do that.

This is at the heart of the matter. The MLS would overtake the NHL as North America's #4 professional sports league if its overall revenues were greater than the NHL's. I can't readily get a handle on what those figures are, but I think that the poster above has a sense of them. 

As someone else noted upthread: This "story" from Axios comes off as transparent PR shilling, given the substantial gap between the two leagues' current revenues/overall worth. 

[matter2003]

On 5/30/2023 at 10:11 AM, MattPie said:

Not really WNY, but the Bike Bar in Ithaca (it's bicycle-themed strangely enough) has the games on in the morning. I wouldn't know if I didn't follow them on Insta (they do occasional bike rides) however.

 

I think there are a few bars on Hertel and Elmwood that do actually. Or at least used to.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

 

I think there are a few bars on Hertel and Elmwood that do actually. Or at least used to.

I named two upthread.

Back to the point--wasn't NASCAR more popular than NHL at one point about 20 years ago?  Did it matter?  (And I wonder how those people feel about their "Rainbow Warrior" now...)

[ubkev]

14 hours ago, Eleven said:

I named two upthread.

Back to the point--wasn't NASCAR more popular than NHL at one point about 20 years ago?  Did it matter?  (And I wonder how those people feel about their "Rainbow Warrior" now...)

I'd rank him juuuust behind Jimmy Johnson as the 4 greatest driver of all time. 1 and 2 are, of course, The King and Big Dale. 

[PromoTheRobot]

On 5/29/2023 at 11:29 PM, Doohickie said:

...until an American becomes a star on the world soccer stage.  That's what it will take.

The other thing to consider is that even if it's second rate, soccer is far more popular in the states with large hispanic populations.  We have a local team, the Fort Worth Vaqueros, and their boosters/fans are pretty rabid.  They also started a Junior Vaqueros the following year, putting their roots even deeper into the community. 

Not sure if this is a thing in WNY, but a lot of bars and craft brewers open early on the weekends to host soccer watching parties for the Euro matches, and they're a pretty big draw.  For a lot of people they don't know much about soccer; they just want a beer at 9 am on Sunday (and due to a law passed during Covid that's now possible in Texas). 

Soccer is preferred by a lot of the Millennials and younger around here because it's "anti-establishment" and different from what their parents follow.  I know a lot of people who sneer at "sports ball" (NFL/NBA/MLB) but follow soccer.  It's got that hipster ethos of "I was a soccer fan before it was cool."

I'm not sure if it's like that outside of Texas, but yeah, soccer is pretty popular here.

I personally find it pretty boring to watch on TV, but the soccer team where my wife teaches got several rounds into the playoffs and I went to a couple games; it's a lot more fun to watch in person.

Right. British Premier League. Not MLS. Premier League is more popular then MLS.

[matter2003]

16 hours ago, Eleven said:

I named two upthread.

Back to the point--wasn't NASCAR more popular than NHL at one point about 20 years ago?  Did it matter?  (And I wonder how those people feel about their "Rainbow Warrior" now...)

NASCAR is still more popular...by a wide margin

Edited June 2, 2023 by matter2003

[Weave]

22 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

NASCAR is still more popular...by a wide margin

By which metric?

[Eleven]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Right. British Premier League. Not MLS. Premier League is more popular then MLS.

As it should be.  That's good soccer.

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

NASCAR is still more popular...by a wide margin

 

4 hours ago, Weave said:

By which metric?

Yeah, you've gotta show your work on that one, matter.  It's not 2001 anymore and there was a major rebellion this morning, apparently, because of cultural (not political) stuff.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

there was a major rebellion this morning, apparently, because of cultural (not political) stuff.

Link?  Apparently my social media accounts are well tuned to not see this stuff.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Link?  Apparently my social media accounts are well tuned to not see this stuff.

Just google NASCAR and hit the news tab.  Bonus points if you go back to the tweet that started it all.

[PromoTheRobot]

18 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Just google NASCAR and hit the news tab.  Bonus points if you go back to the tweet that started it all.

So NASCAR fans don't like drag racers?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

MLS is very popular in The Great Satan and Montreal.  Vancouver too.  Three major cities with half the population from other parts of the world where football is the  most popular sport.  The biggest 'star' footballer form Canada is playing on the top side in Germany.  And doing very well.  If he were in The Great Satan he would be a rock star.

It's easy to fill a 30,000 BMO Field in a city of 7+ million.

[Sabres73]

16 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

MLS is very popular in The Great Satan and Montreal.  Vancouver too.  Three major cities with half the population from other parts of the world where football is the  most popular sport.  The biggest 'star' footballer form Canada is playing on the top side in Germany.  And doing very well.  If he were in The Great Satan he would be a rock star.

It's easy to fill a 30,000 BMO Field in a city of 7+ million.

Here in Vancouver, the Whitecaps peaked a few years ago when they could regularly get 20-25k at a game. Their recent games have been sparse. Conversely, the BC Lions of the CFL are becoming more popular, as they should be. They have LL Cool J at their home opener coming up, and are expecting a capacity crowd. I think the fascination with a fourth tier soccer league is dwindling. The MLS is nowhere near as popular in Canada as the Canadian Football League, let alone more popular than the NHL.