Thorny Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: He is basically on the same level as Kozak, Nadeau, and others. I’m perfectly ok with trading a forward or 2, but he promised we’d get value in return. Good point - he WAS a prospect being seen on those levels. Maybe it’s just bias because I was always the “hold your horses” guy in the bloom threads, but I think this trade actually makes me actively happy: I already knew Adams had a reasonably savvy aptitude as a GM, don’t really need this deal to prove it to me (though obviously hope it’s not a swing and miss), but the confirmation he’s not married to these drafted prospects that some are even saying is “the future” is the real pearl in this deal. I’ve already said I trusted KA’s skills, and that not only was trading picks and prospects ok, but necessary, and a good potential way to mine value. Him going ahead and doing exactly that isn’t a red flag, it’s the opposite, and I’m certainly not going to haggle against player addition quality in this deal when the guy we moved was exactly a guy I pointed to as a reasonable prospect but good currency piece Edited February 28, 2023 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: The same things can basically be written about Bryson. He has 157 NHL games under his belt. He’s a 4th rd pick who is 26th in games played from his draft class and 3rd in games played by the 4th rd picks in 2017. Only one 3rd rd pick (Morgan Geekie) has played more games than he has. Sadly, Bryson has been demoted to the 7th slot and Stillman is basically more of the same. That's all Stillman is meant to do--replace Bryson and drive Bryson down the chart. Again, on this team, Bloom is nothing special and certainly not untradeable for D depth. Four years ago? Maybe. But it isn't four years ago anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Thorny said: From our perspective this is fair but (and I hate being this guy) it appears Adams is looking at different numbers re: players ie their specific stylistic fit and isolating numbers from similar situations in the past. So it could be a thing where the conclusions you are drawing here or what I or other draw might look accurate based on the info we have (Bear the better play) but if we had the full slate of data we’d potentially feel different We’ll see won’t we, but I’m not optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektorado Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 If this Stillman kid can displace Clague (or Bryson) what's the big deal. He plays some PK minutes which Clague hasn't at all and even with his fights he has less penalty minutes than Clague. Hits and blocked shots are also better than Kale. I will admit I wanted a "defensive" defenseman. Was hoping for some better stats than this guy, but I'll wait to see him play. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Eleven said: That's all Stillman is meant to do--replace Bryson and drive Bryson down the chart. Again, on this team, Bloom is nothing special and certainly not untradeable for D depth. Four years ago? Maybe. But it isn't four years ago anymore. Clague has already pushed Bryson out, thus Stillman has to be better than Clague and I don’t think he is. As I’ve stated, I’m perfectly ok with moving out a forward or 2 for D help, but this doesn’t move the needle at all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 I want my 6/7 D to hit and drop the gloves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, Thorny said: Haven’t read thread yet so apologies for overlap This is one I’m going to want to keep my eye on, re: Adams and his team’s pursuit of another reclamation project that they are presumably attempting to “Jost”. The player doesn’t appear on the surface to be a significant addition, so I’d assume w/o other moves Adams will be under the microscope for this one. But we still could see another move. There’s often some sort of family or personal connection with so many of Adams’ moves: it’s something that I honestly do not have a positive knee jerk reaction to whenever I see it, but in this case my fears in the past have been proven incorrect. Hard to really doubt KA right now with his establishing track record, let’s see how this guy does. Mostly I just hope it means Dahlin isn’t going to IR I think it’s inevitable that when you put as much priority on character as Adams does, you’re bound to miss on the talent portion sometimes. This will be one to watch. I have a feeling this is one of those trades where one team would have just been happy to cut ties with a player, only to be pleasantly surprised to get a call where someone actually wants him and will pay for him. To be clear, Josh Bloom was hardly a big price to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterExpat Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) What is the deadline value for a 7th d-man and is it equal to or lesser than a bottom-6 ceiling NHL prospect that’s still in juniors? I feel like this is the metric to judge this trade. edit: it’s a sincere question. I don’t know. Edited February 28, 2023 by RochesterExpat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: I think it’s inevitable that when you put as much priority on character as Adams does, you’re bound to miss on the talent portion sometimes. This will be one to watch. I have a feeling this is one of those trades where one team would have just been happy to cut ties with a player, only to be pleasantly surprised to get a call where someone actually wants him and will pay for him. To be clear, Josh Bloom was hardly a big price to pay. And considering the Sabres are currently at 47 contracts with 2 presumably reserved for Levi and Johnson, they almost had to give up a prospect rather than a pick to make this trade work. Which makes signing Houser all that more curious for the timing of it. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: The same things can basically be written about Bryson. He has 157 NHL games under his belt. He’s a 4th rd pick who is 26th in games played from his draft class and 3rd in games played by the 4th rd picks in 2017. Only one 3rd rd pick (Morgan Geekie) has played more games than he has and he has more experience than 25 of the 2nd rd picks. Sadly, Bryson has been demoted to the 7th slot and Stillman is basically more of the same. Yes, that’s pretty much my point. Objectively, Josh Bloom has a less than 10 percent chance of being as good as Jacob Bryson. Stillman (roughly) seems to be about as good as Bryson. Therefore, good chance the Sabres got value in this trade. Notwithstanding the real work of actually scouting the players, which we haven’t done. To be clear, based on my superficial knowledge about the players, I don’t like this trade, although I think there’s a pretty good chance most of us will forget about it fairly soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektorado Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Taro T said: And considering the Sabres are currently at 47 contracts with 2 presumably reserved for Levi and Johnson, they almost had to give up a prospect rather than a pick to make this trade work. Which makes signing Houser all that more curious for the timing of it. Can I ask where you got the numbers? I was trying to count contracts on CapFriendly, but was wondering if there is a better site. I knew they were getting close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanSlinky39 Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Cheektorado said: Can I ask where you got the numbers? I was trying to count contracts on CapFriendly, but was wondering if there is a better site. I knew they were getting close. CapFriendly has them at 44, but that's w/o Houser and this guy and probably one more. You don't have to count--it's right up top on the team page--but you do have to verify that CapFriendly has everything. Edited February 28, 2023 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cheektorado said: Can I ask where you got the numbers? I was trying to count contracts on CapFriendly, but was wondering if there is a better site. I knew they were getting close. PuckPedia (used to be NHL Numbers a few years back). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: Yes, that’s pretty much my point. Objectively, Josh Bloom has a less than 10 percent chance of being as good as Jacob Bryson. Stillman (roughly) seems to be about as good as Bryson. Therefore, good chance the Sabres got value in this trade. Notwithstanding the real work of actually scouting the players, which we haven’t done. To be clear, based on my superficial knowledge about the players, I don’t like this trade, although I think there’s a pretty good chance most of us will forget about it fairly soon Sorry, I wouldn’t have traded Bloom or Nadeau for another Bryson. Getting another Bryson doesn’t really make us better. It just gives us another warm body and we could have acquired that through a waiver claim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Clague has already pushed Bryson out, thus Stillman has to be better than Clague and I don’t think he is. As I’ve stated, I’m perfectly ok with moving out a forward or 2 for D help, but this doesn’t move the needle at all. Let's flip this around. What is it that you see in Bloom that makes him someone that the Sabres shouldn't trade in a situation like this? Or is it the principle of the thing? Because it seems like most of the rest of us don't see anything special there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanSlinky39 Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Only Sabres fans could get this bent out of shape trading out a marginal forward prospect for a depth defenseman. 🤪 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 I'm seeing 24 contracts on the roster as of right now, and that doesnt include Houser, i thought they could only carry 23? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getpucksdeep Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: The same things can basically be written about Bryson. He has 157 NHL games under his belt. He’s a 4th rd pick who is 26th in games played from his draft class and 3rd in games played by the 4th rd picks in 2017. Only one 3rd rd pick (Morgan Geekie) has played more games than he has and he has more experience than 25 of the 2nd rd picks. Sadly, Bryson has been demoted to the 7th slot and Stillman is basically more of the same. Bear would have be more of the same as Bryson. Optimistically this guy is stay-home hard-nosed role player, although admittedly I haven't watched him play so idk. I am willing to give Adams and team the benefit of the doubt at this point, call the Jost-runway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektorado Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Eleven said: CapFriendly has them at 44, but that's w/o Houser and this guy and probably one more. You don't have to count--it's right up top on the team page--but you do have to verify that CapFriendly has everything. I see it now. Duh. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, HumanSlinky39 said: Only Sabres fans could get this bent out of shape trading out a marginal forward prospect for a depth defenseman. 🤪 Have ya seen HFBoards, almost the entire league fan base is bent out of shape about it, then you have Toronto fans, who stooped to even lower depths lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Buff Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, dudacek said: I think it’s inevitable that when you put as much priority on character as Adams does, you’re bound to miss on the talent portion sometimes. This will be one to watch. Idk how much of a BILLS fan you are, but this idea of placing priority on character over talent is a theme being discussed with Brandon Beane right now too. I remember some months back hearing how KA was confiding in Beane to discuss how he approaches roster building & what not. Bit of a similarity between the 2, for better or worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Eleven said: Let's flip this around. What is it that you see in Bloom that makes him someone that the Sabres shouldn't trade in a situation like this? Or is it the principle of the thing? Because it seems like most of the rest of us don't see anything special there. It’s the principal of the deal. KA said he wasn’t wasting assets unless it made us better. This move doesn’t accomplish that goal unless Bryson is being moved in another deal and Stillman is here to replace the depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 This is what you want though? A guy who has no real substantial upside? He's meh, completely underwhelming. Regardless if you like Bloom or not. This is just about as blah a return as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Scottysabres said: I'm seeing 24 contracts on the roster as of right now, and that doesnt include Houser, i thought they could only carry 23? @Brawndo suggested it, but it is likely that UPL is at least technically an Amerk right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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