Who is the new core?

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

The Sabres don't have a core yet.

They are in lets see who developes mode.

Of all the players on the roster I would say that only two would not be traded in the normal course of business ... Tuch and Dahlin.

Of the players not on the roster I would say the above about two players ... Power and Levi.

That's not to say that I expect all the others to be traded, but I would not be surprised if any of the others were traded.

Correct 

Though I’d probably add a couple to the “wouldn’t be traded in normal course of business” list. Not untouchables (don’t really believe in that term at all) , just guys they’d probably personally assume won’t be moving 

You have to establish in the NHL as a cornerstone piece for me to call them “core”, imo. It’s not theoretical. 

Dahlin and Tuch are the core, currently. I’m sure there are others they INTEND on finding their way into it. 

Thompson is getting there 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Thorny
I might even be hasty on Tuch tbh

[In The Buff]

6 hours ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

The last time that the Sabres amounted to anything they had Drury and Briere.  Both brought in by trade.

They were added to young players just coming around ... Roysie, Vansie, Pomsie, Millsie, Campsie, Hanksie and a few savy vets here and there and there you go.

Maybe soon (1 more year, I think) the Sabres will see how the kids are doing and will be looking to add the next Drury and Briere?

Then again, I am probably just farting into the wind here.

fart away my friend, fart away.

But yeah i agree 100%, nice post, farts & all

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Honest question … how can any player who hasn’t played one min on an NHL team considered a core player for that NHL team?

I guess I consider core players differently.

Same 

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Eakin, Biro, Miller, Hagg, Dell and Butcher

Butcher playing F here, too

Biro - Eakin - Butcher

Hagg - Miller 

Dell

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

[Pimlach]

[pi2000]

realistically...

Dahlin, Power, Tuch, Thompson, TBD, TBD

TBD may include guys like Quinn, Mittlestadt, Krebs, Peterka, or a future pick... maybe even a UPL, Levi or Portilllo hopefully. 

[GoPuckYourself]

I'm sure the hope by management is that it will be C Tage Thompson, RW Alex Tuch, LW Peyton Krebs, C Dylan Cozens, RW Jack Quinn, LW J.J. Peterka and on defense LHD Rasmus Dahlin, RHD Henri Jokiharju, LHD Owen Power, Player not yet named, LHD Mattias Samuelsson, player not yet named. Goalies- UPL, Devon Levi but we will be hard pressed to think every player will work out so we'll have to see who pans out but all these players should be in the lineup by next season. I don't have Middlestadt listed as his injuries are starting to mount up and when he is on the ice I don't see anything in his game that makes me believe he should be in that core group but that's just my opinion. I think we should trade both Ryan Johnson and Victor Olofsson for RHD, I think both could net us core RHD pairs, Oloffson right away I'd say at deadline and Johnson more towards draft time.

[North Buffalo]

I just read through this stuff and gotta think the Sabres are establishing a young core right now... Sure Power, Johnson and this year's top pick likely to be added, but I think and repeat think it'l be Tuch, Krebs, and Thompson, tbd Mitts if he ever gets over his injury bug... I could see Quinn and Peterka joining that crowd and forcharacter guys I do like me some Rasmus Asplund, and Jankowski.  I hope that Girgenson sticks around and possibly Okposo, but could see either being moved along with Olofsson.  TBD Biro

On D I like the Fitzgerald-Samuelson pairing and think that could be a thing for a while.  Obviously Dahlin and Power... the question for me is Jokiharju... I just don't see the toughness needed for a playoff run and would move him for the right return.  I would rather see if one of Bryson, if he develops further, Johnson or a first rounder steps up...   Gonna need 7 D anyway given injuries.   

Goalies... who the hell knows.  Hopefully at least 1 of the young 3 do something... but gonna need to find a vet to split time and betting it isn't Anderson given his age.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Hiney-Stroka sighting ...

😎

[carpandean]

I would say that once you actually have a core, you don't have to ask who they are.

 

[Curt]

40 minutes ago, carpandean said:

I would say that once you actually have a core, you don't have to ask who they are.

 

That seems correct.  I would say that Tuch, Cozens and Dahlin have qualified themselves, and Skinner’s contract qualifies him.

[Pimlach]

15 hours ago, Curt said:

Yeah, I would thinks it would be 3-4 forwards, 2-3 D, and maybe a goalie.  Those would be the key guys who you really commit to, give 5+ year contracts, give NTC/NMC to, etc.

I think we have 1 core player and that is Dahlin.  After that Tuch and Tage are playing like people you can build on, so they are core for us right now.  Beyond that Power, Quinn and Cozens are top prospect hopefuls, same with Levi/Portillo. 
 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

@sweetlou, if you don't mind, I'm going to transition this thread a little.  While asking who the core is is an important question for our GM, I'm curious how people here think about all the Sabres and key prospect fit into the picture. 

I divide the guys into 6 categories.

1 - the Real Core.  These are the 4 or 5 guys that management commits to long term.  To me right now only Dahlin and now maybe Thompson fit that description. 

2 - Potential Core - Mitts, Cozens, Power, Krebs, Quinn, and Levi could all earn promotion to the 1st category, but we are in wait and see for a variety of reasons such as injuries or youth.  Depending on how things go, some of these guys will move up to Category 1 while others will transition to Category 3 or 4. I don't see anyone slipping to category 5.  

3.  Quality Veteran Depth - Tuch, Skinner, and Okposo are the guys in this category.  Tuch has 4 years left and isn't going anywhere and could be next year's Captain, but I don't see him as a guy extended long-term at 29.  Skinner is 29 with 800 games and is rejuvenated this season with another 5 years on his deal.  KO is 33, wears an A and has one year left.  He is also reborn under DG.  I would have said he's gone after next season, but I can also see him extended to continue to mentor the kids.  

4. Good transitional depth - This category is  guys who will a fill need for a period of time, but won't be core players.  Samuelsson, JJP Jokiharju, VO, and UPL are the current guys that fit this description.  This doesn't mean they aren't good players and in some cases force their way into long-term consideration, but ultimately they'll be replaced by prospects pushing up from below or outside vets because they get to expensive to re-sign.  For example, I really really like Samuelsson and Jokiharju, but once we commit to long-term deals for Power and Dahlin, it's doubtful we'll be able to afford to keep these guys forever.  Levi and Portillo will eventually take over from UPL.

5. Expendable young players - I see these guys as players who could play here awhile in a depth role but will be replaced relatively quickly and could also be used to enhance trades.  I see Fitzgerald, Johnson, Bryson, Asplund, Murray, Weissbach, Laakosonen and Portillo as these type of guys. Portillo was the hardest to place.  He could end up being the best of our three goalie prospects or guy we trade for depth elsewhere.  

6. JAGs (Garbage?) -  On the good side of this category are guys like Girgensons, Pysyk, Anderson and Hinostroza and on the bad, Bjork, Hayden, Caggiula, Dell, Eakin, Subban, and Butcher.  Hagg and Jankowski are somewhere in the middle.  The more we can shrink this category the better.  I  only see Girgensons and Bjork returning because they are under contract, but none will missed when they are gone.

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Zamboni]

Like it or not… The management has committed long term to Skinner. I think management view him as part of “the core”… 

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Like it or not… The management has committed long term to Skinner. I think management view him as part of “the core”… 

I thought about Skinner as a core piece.  Jbot certainly thought that, but now he is 29 and odds are against him keeping at top 6 role beyond the next few seasons.  To me that says veteran depth despite the size of this contract.

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I thought about Skinner as a core piece.  Jbot certainly thought that, but now he is 29 and odds are against him keeping at top 6 role beyond the next few seasons.  To me that says veteran depth despite the size of this contract.

I would agree that it looks like veteran depth too… and I would view him as such as well.

I just think management because of the length of contract at this point in the game views him as a “core piece” 

… currently (keyword)

[Curt]

On 3/3/2022 at 12:02 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

@sweetlou, if you don't mind, I'm going to transition this thread a little.  While asking who the core is is an important question for our GM, I'm curious how people here think about all the Sabres and key prospect fit into the picture. 

I divide the guys into 6 categories.

1 - the Real Core.  These are the 4 or 5 guys that management commits to long term.  To me right now only Dahlin and now maybe Thompson fit that description. 

2 - Potential Core - Mitts, Cozens, Power, Krebs, Quinn, and Levi could all earn promotion to the 1st category, but we are in wait and see for a variety of reasons such as injuries or youth.  Depending on how things go, some of these guys will move up to Category 1 while others will transition to Category 3 or 4. I don't see anyone slipping to category 5.  

3.  Quality Veteran Depth - Tuch, Skinner, and Okposo are the guys in this category.  Tuch has 4 years left and isn't going anywhere and could be next year's Captain, but I don't see him as a guy extended long-term at 29.  Skinner is 29 with 800 games and is rejuvenated this season with another 5 years on his deal.  KO is 33, wears an A and has one year left.  He is also reborn under DG.  I would have said he's gone after next season, but I can also see him extended to continue to mentor the kids.  

4. Good transitional depth - This category is  guys who will a fill need for a period of time, but won't be core players.  Samuelsson, JJP Jokiharju, VO, and UPL are the current guys that fit this description.  This doesn't mean they aren't good players and in some cases force their way into long-term consideration, but ultimately they'll be replaced by prospects pushing up from below or outside vets because they get to expensive to re-sign.  For example, I really really like Samuelsson and Jokiharju, but once we commit to long-term deals for Power and Dahlin, it's doubtful we'll be able to afford to keep these guys forever.  Levi and Portillo will eventually take over from UPL.

5. Expendable young players - I see these guys as players who could play here awhile in a depth role but will be replaced relatively quickly and could also be used to enhance trades.  I see Fitzgerald, Johnson, Bryson, Asplund, Murray, Weissbach, Laakosonen and Portillo as these type of guys. Portillo was the hardest to place.  He could end up being the best of our three goalie prospects or guy we trade for depth elsewhere.  

6. JAGs (Garbage?) -  On the good side of this category are guys like Girgensons, Pysyk, Anderson and Hinostroza and on the bad, Bjork, Hayden, Caggiula, Dell, Eakin, Subban, and Butcher.  Hagg and Jankowski are somewhere in the middle.  The more we can shrink this category the better.  I  only see Girgensons and Bjork returning because they are under contract, but none will missed when they are gone.

 

Here is mine.  I just left out anyone who is a pending UFA.

1 - the Real Core.  These are the 4 or 5 guys that management commits to long term. :  
Tuch, Skinner, Dahlin, Cozens 

Tuch and Skinner are already committed to long term.  I think Tuch is a fantastic player to keep around long term as part of the leadership core.  Dahlin is showing that he should be part of this group.  Cozens just needs to be, heart and soul.

2 - Potential Core - Could earn promotion to the 1st category, but we are in wait and see for a variety of reasons such as injuries or youth.  Depending on how things go, some of these guys will move up to Category 1 while others will transition to Category 3 or 4. I don't see anyone slipping to category 5. :  
Thompson, Quinn, Krebs, Mittelstadt, Power, Samuelsson 

Thompson is pretty close to showing that he belongs in (1).  The rest need to prove it at the NHL level for an extended period.

For me, all three of UPL, Levi, and Portillo are in this category as well.  Someone of that group is going ride above the others.  They may or may not reach the (1) level of core piece, but I think they all have the potential.  Any of the three could end up in category 1, 4, 5, or 6.

3.  Quality Veteran Depth :  
Okposo and Girgensons

 

4. Good transitional depth - This category is  guys who will a fill need for a period of time, possibly transitioning to category (3), but won't be core players. :  
Olofsson, Jokiharju, Peterka

 

5. Expendable young players - I see these guys as players who could play here awhile in a depth role but will be replaced relatively quickly and could also be used to enhance trades. :  
Asplund, Murray, Routsalainen, Biro, Bryson, Johnson, Fitzgerald, Laaksonen, every other unsigned prospect not mentioned 

 

6. JAGs (Garbage?) :  Bjork, Weissbach, Pekar

[Doohickie]

A "core" is a way of talking of a current state of a team.  It's not a formal construct.  It never has been and it never will be. 

At some point when the team succeeds or fails, people point to the players that are the biggest cause of that.  That's the core I guess.  But without success or failure, only meh.... there is no core.  Just a revolving door.

[triumph_communes]

So much Thompson disrespect. Best contract in hockey.  As core as core gets.  You can pretty much write off any Skinner overpay but the underpay Thompson gets. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by triumph_communes

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

A "core" is a way of talking of a current state of a team.  It's not a formal construct.  It never has been and it never will be. 

At some point when the team succeeds or fails, people point to the players that are the biggest cause of that.  That's the core I guess.  But without success or failure, only meh.... there is no core.  Just a revolving door.

I’m going to respectfully somewhat disagree.  I think in the cap era all top teams have a solid core of 4-5 guys that define an era of that team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang in Pit.  Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook in Chicago.  Doughty, Brown, Kopitar and Quick in LA.  
 

 

[Doohickie]

46 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m going to respectfully somewhat disagree.  I think in the cap era all top teams have a solid core of 4-5 guys that define an era of that team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang in Pit.  Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook in Chicago.  Doughty, Brown, Kopitar and Quick in LA. 

Yes, that's what I said in the second paragraph.  After the fact you can look at it and know who the core is.  But with the Sabres, who have had no success?  Meh.

I think a core is a retrospective thing.  You don't know until you know.  Eichel was supposed to be part of the core and you could say he was part of the failed XGMTM core I guess.  Go back to the late 1990s Red Wings... did anyone think Chris Draper, as 4C and penalty killer, would be part of the core?  It turned out that the player they got for $1 was part of the core.

Edited March 6, 2022 by The Ghost of Yuri