Isak Rosen News, Allsvenskan Eligible

[LGR4GM]

His main issue is he's not strong enough to be effective in the SHL. The Allsvenskan is roughly the AHL of the SHL. It's the 2nd tier league there and impo where he needed to be all season. I'm hoping Buffalo was involved in this. 

"During the season, Isak Rosén has had a hard time getting into the offensive formations in Leksands IF. It has therefore been agreed with Isak and Mora IK on a double registration which means that Isak can represent both clubs for the rest of the season. https://t.co/qdVQ3FomLv"

Edited February 3, 2022 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

 

[WildCard]

Sounds good for his development

[Mustache of God]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

He sounds like a bust 🙂

[GASabresIUFAN]

Sounds like he’ll remain in Sweden at least another 2 years.  

[Eleven]

Does this mean he is being sent to a lower level to get more playing time?

[bob_sauve28]

Sounds like he needs the Tage Thompson weight gain program 

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Does this mean he is being sent to a lower level to get more playing time?

yes.

 

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Sounds like he’ll remain in Sweden at least another 2 years.  

also yes

9 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Sounds like he needs the Tage Thompson weight gain program 

also also yes

[Doohickie]

25 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Does this mean he is being sent to a lower level to get more playing time?

I think that's exactly what this means.

[JoeSchmoe]

Lost in this feel good thread is that he was 39th in ppg in the Swedish U20 League. His 8 games was a small sample size, but considering his draft position, this is pretty bad.

I'll say it again....when drafting a 13th overall you're not going to get the full package. Sometimes you have to compromise on size, and sometimes you have to compromise on scoring. With Rosen, they compromised on both... And now we're left with a likely non-NHL player for the gift of the Flyers poor trade for Risto.

[Spoonman]

1 hour ago, Mustache of God said:

He sounds like a bust 🙂

I hope you are joking 

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Lost in this feel good thread is that he was 39th in ppg in the Swedish U20 League. His 8 games was a small sample size, but considering his draft position, this is pretty bad.

I'll say it again....when drafting a 13th overall you're not going to get the full package. Sometimes you have to compromise on size, and sometimes you have to compromise on scoring. With Rosen, they compromised on both... And now we're left with a likely non-NHL player for the gift of the Flyers poor trade for Risto.

That's a bold statement about an 18yr old. 

Also looking at his scoring in his draft year and saying Buffalo "compromised on scoring" is inaccurate. 

Rosen has 9pts in 8 j20 games this season,  ftr

Edited February 3, 2022 by LGR4GM

[Flashsabre]

32 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Lost in this feel good thread is that he was 39th in ppg in the Swedish U20 League. His 8 games was a small sample size, but considering his draft position, this is pretty bad.

I'll say it again....when drafting a 13th overall you're not going to get the full package. Sometimes you have to compromise on size, and sometimes you have to compromise on scoring. With Rosen, they compromised on both... And now we're left with a likely non-NHL player for the gift of the Flyers poor trade for Risto.

This is just an awful take. The kid is 18 and needs to put on 25 lbs as he matures before anyone knows what kind of player he will be. 

Can you tell us what kind of player he will be at 22 years old when the Sabres will be looking at him to contribute?

People need to stop thinking a player is finished developing when he is drafted. For most, they are just starting to develop as their bodies go from boys to men. He was definitely a projection pick meaning they are projecting what kind of player he will be when he matures and puts on weight in 2-3 years.

The biggest part of development is playing at a level that allows you to grow and succeed. This is a step in the right direction.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Flashsabre

[JoeSchmoe]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's a bold statement about an 18yr old. 

Also looking at his scoring in his draft year and saying Buffalo "compromised on scoring" is inaccurate. 

Rosen has 9pts in 8 j20 games this season,  ftr

9pts in 8 games is 39th in ppg. 

In his draft year he was 1ppg in 12 games. Players like that in the CHL are a dime a dozen. Olivier Nadeau didn't go until the 4th round and he had 45pts in 34g in the Q! And he's listed at 6'2" 198lb!

 

[JoeSchmoe]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

This is just an awful take. The kid is 18 and needs to put on 25 lbs as he matures before anyone knows what kind of player he will be. 

Can you tell us what kind of player he will be at 22 years old when the Sabres will be looking at him to contribute?

People need to stop thinking a player is finished developing when he is drafted. For most, they are just starting to develop as their bodies go from boys to men. He was definitely a projection pick meaning they are projecting what kind of player he will be when he matures and puts on weight in 2-3 years.

The biggest part of development is playing at a level that allows you to grow and succeed. This is a step in the right direction.

The kid was a not an elite scorer playing against other kids. If he was, the comment about him growing into his body would have merit.

This is a sub-elite scorer that may or may not grow. They should have taken a hard pass at him.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, JoeSchmoe said:

9pts in 8 games is 39th in ppg. 

In his draft year he was 1ppg in 12 games. Players like that in the CHL are a dime a dozen. Olivier Nadeau didn't go until the 4th round and he had 45pts in 34g in the Q! And he's listed at 6'2" 198lb!

 

Isak Rosen is tied for 2nd in primary points per gp in the j20. Sample size is the problem there. 

You gotta skim off secondary assists to really look at this. Also you can't do what you are doing, I mean you can but you shouldn't. The Q does not compare to the J20, very different leagues in terms of production. 

So if we look at production alone, you are partially correct. Isak Rosen did not have elite production in the j20 (superelite) in his draft year compared to other draft eligible players. He takes a hit because his pp points are low compared to other draft eligible players in j20. If you only look at his ev/p1 that changes things and I would guess some of what Buffalo gambled on. Stromgren led the class at 0.9286 which is really good but then you quickly jump down to Olausson at .750 and Rosen at .667 and if you really want to compare it to Nadeau, Naduea was at .6471 in the Q. 

Okay so in the realm of everything, Rosen has some questions about his offense. He was in the top 4 for DY players in the j20 and played games at the SHL level and scouts love that. I think playing 22 games in the SHL at 17 was actually not a great use of Rosen and he needs development. This is a case where the numbers only partially back up the pick but yes, you could argue the Sabres should have drafted someone else. Rosen is a perfect example of a player who should not be in the SHL and that isn't helping his development. If Rosen had played the entire year in the j20 and had a 1.25ppg number, we would be far less concerned. This is a case of numbers not really being great or bad, but clearly eye test scouting and transition stats were in favor of that offense coming as he grows into his body (157lbs is really slight). 

I will add that looking at this now, Nadeau should have been drafted previously. He should not have slipped to the 4th round, follow the production when drafting forwards. 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

The kid was a not an elite scorer playing against other kids. If he was, the comment about him growing into his body would have merit.

This is a sub-elite scorer that may or may not grow. They should have taken a hard pass at him.

I would have taken Svechkov or Lucius personally if I were the Sabres. They didn't and Rosen could bust but we shouldn't make that determination right this second. I think Rosen's issue is size, specifically weight/strength. 

[dudacek]

I am considering 2 possibilities for the Rosen pick:

• The Sabres did a ton of work on Rosen and saw him as a Jack Quinn: a highly skilled, self-motivated kid behind some of his peers in terms of his development curve, but with an enormous ceiling and huge potential for growth.
• The Sabres fell in love with Rosen's explosive U18 tourney in a year where scouting opportunities were slim, and invested heavy on a small sample size when picking him out a large tier of players.

Either way, I'm not going to pass judgement any time soon. He's a long-term project.

[msw2112]

I don't know much about hockey prospects, but Rosen was drafted around where all of the so-called experts had him on their draft boards.  So there's that.  Based on what little I knew about the kid (basically reading an article or 2 about draft prospects and watching some of the TV coverage), he seemed rather small and his numbers weren't great, so I would not have selected him where the Sabres did.  This is truly an "only time will tell" situation.  Let the kid develop and see where he ends up.  If he's a bust, we can criticize the Sabres then.

Edited February 3, 2022 by msw2112

[LGR4GM]

Just now, dudacek said:

I am considering 2 possibilities for the Rosen pick:

• The Sabres did a ton of work on Rosen and saw him as a Jack Quinn: a highly skilled, self-motivated kid behind some of his peers in terms of his development curve, but with an enormous ceiling and huge potential for growth.
• The Sabres fell in love with Rosen's explosive U18 tourney in a year where scouting opportunities were slim, and invested heavy on a small sample size when picking him out a large tier of players.

Either way, I'm not going to pass judgement any time soon. He's a long-term project.

Both of these seem likely. Also not a great scouting strategy to rely on 1 tourney but last year was weird. 

That is why this year, the Sabres really need to scout the OHL hard. You are looking at players that missed a year of development so you have to ask how far behind their peers are they currently and will they make that up? Shane Wright is probably what? 25% below where he should be because he missed a full year, do you think he makes up that gap or not? 

3 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I don't know much about hockey prospects, but Rosen was drafted around where all of the so-called experts had him on their draft boards.  So there's that.  Based on what little I knew about the kid (basically reading an article or 2 about draft prospects and watching some of the TV coverage), he seemed rather small and his numbres weren't great, so I would not have selected him where the Sabres did.  This is truly an "only time will tell" situation.  Let the kid develop and see where he ends up.  If he's a bust, we can criticize the Sabres then.

Rosen is a gamble on his skills and skating. He is very fast with lots of deceptive rush and stick skills. Can he translate that? time will tell

[LGR4GM]

I don't usually do this because I think others here should support EP Rinkside but... here is an abbreviated version of the scouting report. 

Quote

“Another creative winger who can drive play and do numbers,” Elite Prospects Swedish regional scout Jimmy Hamrin wrote in pre-U18 profile. “Rosén had a tough time protecting the puck in the SHL but is highly skilled with strong skating, a strong shot, and elite puck skills.”

The problem is that Rosén struggled to leverage those skills at the SHL level, where he played for Leksands last season. It was just far too easy for opposing defenders to keep Rosén and his 5-foot-11, 161-pound frame to the outside. To his credit, it wasn’t for a lack of trying. He would make every effort to get to the centre lane on the rush or off of the puck in many of our viewings; it’s just that he couldn’t seem to crack the code.

The same is true of Rosén along the boards, where he was a pushover in puck battles against professional competition. Defencemen overpowered him with a stern look. He could make life easier for himself by keeping his feet moving along the wall and not telegraphing his every step, but I don’t suspect either of those fixes will make a substantial difference.

It’s really this simple: Rosén needs to bulk up. His meagre build is already limiting him at the SHL level, and it’s not going to get any easier for him in the NHL. There’s going to be less space, and defenders are going to be even faster and more physical. Likewise, Rosén already has a sound defensive foundation in place.

He’s a high-radius defender, covering large swaths of his zone with explosiveness as a skater, agility, and second efforts. He shows up to work defensively, even if he’s not physically equipped to leave many of those puck battles with possession. You add a little muscle, and the equation changes.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/420269/isak-rosen

[French Collection]

Looking at the Leksands lineup he is the youngest forward, one other 18 year old. He is also puny, by pro hockey standards.

Their staff will go with the more experienced pros in order to win their day to day games. I think he moving to the proper league in order to get ice time and be challenged to grow his body and his game. Look how long it took VO to develop. He was a 7th rounder but was physically similar.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Spoonman said:

I hope you are joking 

I think that's what the smiley face means.

[JoeSchmoe]

52 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The Sabres fell in love with Rosen's explosive U18 tourney in a year where scouting opportunities were slim, and invested heavy on a small sample size when picking him out a large tier of players.

My guess is this is the case. I don't read into scouting as deeply as some of you guys, but my anecdotal experience is that when teams reach for players based on strong play at the U20s, they generally fall back to their more expected projections of their other leagues... Not the small sample of the tournaments.

[Doohickie]

45 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

his 5-foot-11, 161-pound frame

The way @JoeSchmoe talks about him "compromise on size" makes him sound like he's 5'-8" or something.  He's almost 6 feet tall, that's not small.  He needs to bulk up, sure, but that's not a "compromise on size."