Cozens vs Zegras. Did we draft the right guy?

[DarthEbriate]

1 minute ago, Claude Balls said:

Do the Sabres ever draft the "right guy"??

No. The D always shoot left.

I'm here all rotation!

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

And Cozens is being asked to grind against McDavid. I'd be willing to bet Anaheim is not line-matching Zegras against McDavid on defensive zone starts.

Has he even played against Edmonton?  Anaheim and Edm are in the same division, they face each other often.

Edited January 30, 2022 by klos1963

[SabresVet]

This is why having a deeper prospect pool is important.  One player being somewhat better shouldn't make or break your franchise and, if there's any consolation to this season, it's seeing multiple young players begin contributing.

I'll also insist that faster development is not necessarily better.  A 20 year old on one team getting out to a fast start in their career is nice to evaluate now, but these players needs 3-5 full seasons to judge.  

That said, I'm liking the center depth Buffalo has built...perhaps there aren't elite players, but all seem to have scoring touch Cozens included. 

[DarthEbriate]

24 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Has he even played against Edmonton?  Anaheim and Edm are in the same division, they face each other often.

The Sabres had lost 5 straight (and Anderson and Olofsson) on their West Coast road trip when Edmonton came to Buffalo. Edmonton was white-hot with a 10-2 record coming into the game and Draisaitl and McDavid were vying for the scoring title and all the MVP talk (as well as Ovechkin's early season goal run).

Cozens 2 goals, 0 assists. He, Caggiula, and Hinostroza were matched against McDavid's line all night as a defensive speed line. Cozens won the matchup all game long. (McDavid did get an assist on the power play.)

Since that game, Edmonton is 8-9 overall.

Heck, you could say... Cozens broke McDavid. You'd probably be wrong, but you could say it.

Edit: Zegras and Anaheim lost a 6-5 game to Edmonton so far this year. Zegras 0-1-1, -1 and 4 shots. Cozens wins!

Edited January 30, 2022 by DarthEbriate

[klos1963]

4 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

The Sabres had lost 5 straight (and Anderson and Olofsson) on their West Coast road trip when Edmonton came to Buffalo. Edmonton was white-hot with a 10-2 record coming into the game and Draisaitl and McDavid were vying for the scoring title and all the MVP talk (as well as Ovechkin's early season goal run).

Cozens 2 goals, 0 assists. He, Caggiula, and Hinostroza were matched against McDavid's line all night as a defensive speed line. Cozens won the matchup all game long. (McDavid did get an assist on the power play.)

Since that game, Edmonton is 8-9 overall.

Heck, you could say... Cozens broke McDavid. You'd probably be wrong, but you could say it.

Edit: Zegras and Anaheim lost a 6-5 game to Edmonton so far this year. Zegras 0-1-1, -1 and 4 shots. Cozens wins!

Wonder if Edmonton would do McDavid for Cozens straight up?

[Zamboni]

38 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Wonder if Edmonton would do McDavid for Cozens straight up?

[pi2000]

I had Zegras ahead of Cozens in my final draft rankings as he's the more skilled player.

That said, Cozens is a better 200ft player, which is what Buffalo needs.

TRPMs
Zegras -9.26
Cozens -4.46

Cozens > Zegras confirmed 🙂

[K-9]

On 1/30/2022 at 1:00 PM, DarthEbriate said:

The Sabres had lost 5 straight (and Anderson and Olofsson) on their West Coast road trip when Edmonton came to Buffalo. Edmonton was white-hot with a 10-2 record coming into the game and Draisaitl and McDavid were vying for the scoring title and all the MVP talk (as well as Ovechkin's early season goal run).

Cozens 2 goals, 0 assists. He, Caggiula, and Hinostroza were matched against McDavid's line all night as a defensive speed line. Cozens won the matchup all game long. (McDavid did get an assist on the power play.)

Since that game, Edmonton is 8-9 overall.

Heck, you could say... Cozens broke McDavid. You'd probably be wrong, but you could say it.

Edit: Zegras and Anaheim lost a 6-5 game to Edmonton so far this year. Zegras 0-1-1, -1 and 4 shots. Cozens wins!

Best part about that scenario was the story Granato told about watching Oiler video with Cozens, asking Cozens if he’d be up for that challenge, and observing Cozens’s body language as he answered. I like that about Cozens; he wants the difficult assignments, wants to be on the ice to close out games. Want to is a huge attribute imo. And it can’t be taught. 

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Best part about that scenario was the story Granato told about watching Oiler video with Cozens, asking Cozens if he’d be up for that challenge, and observing Cozens’s body language as he answered. I like that about Cozens; he wants the difficult assignments, wants to be on the ice to close out games. Want to is a huge attribute imo. And it can’t be taught. 

Every time I start to worry about Cozens turning pucks over, or skating into checks, he has a game like that one, or a period like the second versus the Avs last night.

He plays a power/speed game against men in a boys body. He is 20 years old.

Ryan Kesler is a guy I like to compare Cozens to. He didn’t put up the type of numbers Cozens is putting up right now until he was 23. Remember how much better Eichel and Reinhart were at 23 than 20?

When Dylan’s strength and experience match his skill and his motor he is going to be so good.

 

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Every time I start to worry about Cozens turning pucks over, or skating into checks, he has a game like that one, or a period like the second versus the Avs last night.

He plays a power/speed game against men in a boys body. He is 20 years old.

Ryan Kesler is a guy I like to compare Cozens to. He didn’t put up the type of numbers Cozens is putting up right now until he was 23. Remember how much better Eichel and Reinhart were at 23 than 20?

When Dylan’s strength and experience match his skill and his motor he is going to be so good.

 

Looking forward to that, too. Also looking forward to revisiting the “Did we draft the right guy” question. Its often futile to compare young players who arrive more at their ceilings than to guys who arrive closer to their floors. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

30 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Looking forward to that, too. Also looking forward to revisiting the “Did we draft the right guy” question. Its often futile to compare young players who arrive more at their ceilings than to guys who arrive closer to their floors. 

I don't think Zegras is anywhere even close to his ceiling as an NHL playmaker.  This kid see the ice amazingly well.  He'll be a pt+ a game player  when he hits his prime. 

I do agree that Cozens is still finding his NHL offensive game. Kelser is a great comparison and Dylan is actually ahead of Kesler's growth curve.  It took until Kelser's 4th season for him to full blossom offensively.  Kelser's first 4 seasons were .28pts/gp, .33, .45 and the .72.  Dylan so far is .31 and .51.   If Dylan grows into a 60+ point player as early as next year, I'll be thrilled.  

When I made the OP, my intention wasn't to disparage Cozens.  In fact, I love the player and think he's a key piece of the puzzle.  However, I think we'd be just as happy with Zegras.  The good news is we may have a nearly comparable talent in Krebs.

Edited February 1, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't think Zegras is anywhere even close to his ceiling as an NHL playmaker.  This kid see the ice amazingly well.  He'll be a pt+ a game player  when he hits his prime. 

I do agree that Cozens is still finding his NHL offensive game. Kelser is a great comparison and Dylan is actually ahead of Kesler's growth curve.  It took until Kelser's 4th season for him to full blossom offensively.  Kelser's first 4 seasons were .28pts/gp, .33, .45 and the .72.  Dylan so far is .31 and .51.   If Dylan grows into a 60+ point player as early as next year, I'll be thrilled.  

When I made the OP, my intention wasn't to disparage Cozens.  In fact, I love the player and think he's a key piece of the puzzle.  However, I think we'd be just as happy with Zegras.  The good news is we may have a nearly comparable talent in Krebs.

Man did I love that 2019 draft.

I looked, I did have Zegras over Cozens on my board. We'll see where they are in 2 years. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Man did I love that 2019 draft.

I looked, I did have Zegras over Cozens on my board. We'll see where they are in 2 years. 

Did we know that Dylan, at 20, is the 9th-highest-scoring U22 player in the NHL right now, 3rd in goals?

Did we know that Rasmus Dahlin is the 5th-highest, with numbers - goals, assists, plus-minus - that are very similar to Zegras despite the fact he is a defenceman?

It’s so easy to forget how young these guys are and who their peers are.

Isn’t it weird that the internet is talking about how Zegras is just scratching the surface and Dahlin is disappointing?

Dahlin is 11 months older than Zegras, playing a tougher position.

Edited February 1, 2022 by dudacek

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

We'll see where they are in 2 years. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Did we know that Dylan, at 20, is the 9th-highest-scoring U22 player in the NHL right now, 3rd in goals?

Did we know that Rasmus Dahlin is the 5th-highest, with numbers - goals, assists, plus-minus - that are very similar to Zegras despite the fact he is a defenceman?

It’s so easy to forget how young these guys are and who their peers are.

Isn’t it weird that the internet is talking about how Zegras is just scratching the surface and Dahlin is disappointing?

Dahlin is 11 months older than Zegras, playing a tougher position.

I'm always fascinated by the fact Ristolainen was 25 in his 7th season and fans continued to talk about his potential and growth but Dahlin in his 4th season at 21 is a bust or a whatever he gets called. 

Dahlin is gonna have a better 2nd half, the more Krueger gets out of his head, the better. 

[Digger]

9 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

That's the deep thought of the day but i have to admit that I usually just throw away the kernels that don't pop.

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, Digger said:

That's the deep thought of the day but i have to admit that I usually just throw away the kernels that don't pop.

Sadly we have had a history for holding on to some un-popped kernels to long and trading away some kernels before they have even had a chance to pop.

Speaking of kernels traded away to soon, I just noticed that McNabb just signed a 3 year extension with LV.

Will this debate grow over time like Draisaitl vs Reinhart?

Edited February 1, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[steveoath]

I was on the Caufield wagon.... so..... oops.

[PerreaultForever]

Do not ask if it was right to take Cozens over Zegras, better to ask why we didn't draft Tanner Jeannot instead of William Worge Kreu

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Do not ask if it was right to take Cozens over Zegras, better to ask why we didn't draft Tanner Jeannot instead of William Worge Kreu

You can do this with every draft. 

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You can do this with every draft. 

It's called humour. Check into it. 

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's called humour. Check into it. 

Wanna hear a joke? 

We traded for Robin Lehner instead of drafting Brock Boeser

wanna hear another joke? 

We drafted Prokhor Polapov instead of Ville Koivunen

Edited February 2, 2022 by LGR4GM

[GASabresIUFAN]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Wanna hear a joke? 

We traded for Robin Lehner instead of drafting Brock Boeser

wanna hear another joke? 

We drafted Prokhor Polapov instead of Ville Koivunen

I still would have taken Raty at 33.

I have to say how surprised I am about how well Cole Sillinger is doing for CBJ right out of the USHL (and not even on the USNTDP).   Playing at a 30 pt pace as an 18 year old rookie after being the 12th overall pick is pretty amazing.  

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I still would have taken Raty at 33.

Now that's funny! 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Now that's funny! 

Why is that funny?  Raty was 17th on my consensus draft board and he is a center.  PP was 40th.  Kisakov was 52nd.  Raty has 20 pts in his last 23 games in the highest Finnish league.  Poltapov has zero pts in 17 KHL games, but is doing very well in their junior league (which is 2 steps down from the KHL).

Edited February 2, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN