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Have never seen a team have as many goalie injuries in the past 3 seasons as the Sabres have


matter2003
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It's getting to the point of being ridiculous.  Ullmark was always good for a 4-8 weeks worth of injuries every year.  Hutton was out for a while. But this year they took it to a whole new level.  Literally down to their 4th and 5th string goalies regularly since all of the others have gotten hurt and are going to be out for a while.

Anderson, Tokarski, UPL, Subban...

How can one team have such terrible goaltender injury luck over the past 3 years?  

I remember when Miller used to play in 60-70 games a year every year...doesn't seem like we are getting back to that anytime soon the way things are going with injuries.

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Yes I agree that goalies used to play a lot more games without so many injuries.  There's most likely lots of reasons why they don't anymore.  

It's certainly devastating for any team when they lose their #1 goalie for any period of time and then the reliance and hope that the backup is ready for the challenge.

With the Sabres our plan was Anderson as our #1 (okay it was hard to imagine him playing a high number of games before the season started).  UPL wasn't ready to be the backup at the start of the season.  Dell was brought in as the default backup if UPL wasn't ready.  Dell was really bad in preseason.  Tokarski stepped up in preseason and exceeded expectations early on.  Subban didn't have great numbers anywhere in recent seasons.  Where are we today.............Dell has improved and Houser is a nice story but not an NHL goaltender. 

With all the analytic guys we have on staff right now can't we find a better option for goal (without having to give up a first)?

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30 minutes ago, Digger said:

...

With all the analytic guys we have on staff right now can't we find a better option for goal (without having to give up a first)?

1. The Sabres are an unattractive franchise for anyone of quality in goal based on on-ice personnel.

2. The franchise has had continual churn in management.

3. No team is parting with quality goaltending unless it is worth their while.

4. The fans who wanted to tank deserve this crap and we are all reaping its rewards.  Until God Has Decided the sins of those fans who wanted to lose have been expiated, we who don't believe in trying to lose will continue to be punished as well.

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59 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

 

4. The fans who wanted to tank deserve this crap and we are all reaping its rewards.  Until God Has Decided the sins of those fans who wanted to lose have been expiated, we who don't believe in trying to lose will continue to be punished as well.

I wanted the tank and i'd want it again the same situation.  The problem was not the tank, it is just the Sabres did a crappy job of executing it (poor drafting, speeding it up to much, poor development). Other teams have used the same strategy  and it worked well for them. Don't blame the tank, blame the execution.  you know what would be worse than the tank? The status quo of what we had before it....when the Sabres management/ownership team got their hands on that, things could have been just as bad or worse than the tank. If they screwed up a 2nd overall pick and other high picks, just how well do you think they would have done with only having middle first rounders to work with? I don't think well at all.

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23 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I wanted the tank and i'd want it again the same situation.  The problem was not the tank, it is just the Sabres did a crappy job of executing it (poor drafting, speeding it up to much, poor development). Other teams have used the same strategy  and it worked well for them. Don't blame the tank, blame the execution.  you know what would be worse than the tank? The status quo of what we had before it....when the Sabres management/ownership team got their hands on that, things could have been just as bad or worse than the tank. If they screwed up a 2nd overall pick and other high picks, just how well do you think they would have done with only having middle first rounders to work with? I don't think well at all.

I had no problem with being in the lower end of the playoffs each year.  Teams are winning Cups from the 5-8 seeds when they have goaltending -- and with Miller, the Sabres had that.  The team needed to be remade somewhat, so a partial teardown was warranted.

What was not warranted was trading any goaltender who had the gall to play well.  What was not called for was icing a team where half the players were career minor-leaguers.  It was asinine not to build up organisational depth during those years.  I still don't know why they overpaid some of those terrible defencemen.  No rebuilding team before ever went two seasons gleefully establishing a losing culture before the Sabres and the fans decided being losers was good for the franchise.

IMHO, no team is required 2nd overall picks to draft passably.  If you need them that badly, then you really had better not tank because you never stop being a bottom-feeder.  With multiple picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds in multiple years, even mediocre drafting can bring in decent players.

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2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The Sabres are an unattractive franchise for anyone of quality in goal based on on-ice personnel.

No team is parting with quality goaltending unless it is worth their while.

I would like to see what we can find in the AHL or a goalie that's looking for an opportunity to get a chance.  Shouldn't have to give up a high level pick for that.  What we received was Subban.  I have to admit he played a bit better than I expected but still a long ways away from a stop gap reliable #2 goalie.  Is that really the best that our analytic guys could come up with?

I guess going back to the original post I would agree that yes the injuries to our goalies is crazy ridiculous but if we look at the goalie plan going into the season is was pretty weak.  We did not start with a reliable #1 or even a reliable #2.  Anderson was a gamble.

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37 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It’s all started with Robin Lehner, his ankle and his mental health.  
 

Since Ryan Miller left, we've had a cavalcade of has-beens, washouts, and also-rans in goal.  It's almost akin to the revolving door at quarterback for the Bills between the tenures of JK and JA.

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2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

 

IMHO, no team is required 2nd overall picks to draft passably.  If you need them that badly, then you really had better not tank because you never stop being a bottom-feeder.  With multiple picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds in multiple years, even mediocre drafting can bring in decent players.

But that didn't work for the Sabres, and with the talent on the team at that time, and what was in the minor league system, it wasn't going to happen for years.  Look at those teams, look at what the players they got rid of did, and look what was in the minors back then. That team was going no-where. It doesn't matter what 'should' have happened, it mattered the position they were in.   And with the position they were in (their own fault or not) the status quo of a 'non tank' wasn't going to get them anywhere.

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4 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

 

4. The fans who wanted to tank deserve this crap and we are all reaping its rewards.  Until God Has Decided the sins of those fans who wanted to lose have been expiated, we who don't believe in trying to lose will continue to be punished as well.

This is the very first thing I thought of when Eichel (and to a lesser extent Rhino) was dealt. All sins may now be forgiven.  

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5 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The fans who wanted to tank deserve this crap and we are all reaping its rewards.  Until God Has Decided the sins of those fans who wanted to lose have been expiated, we who don't believe in trying to lose will continue to be punished as well.

Two questions, 

1. Toronto tanked, got their guy, drafted better and bounced back pretty quick soooooooooooooo......................

2. In your opinion is the team tanking/trying to lose now (again) or are they just inept?

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6 hours ago, matter2003 said:

It's getting to the point of being ridiculous.  Ullmark was always good for a 4-8 weeks worth of injuries every year.  Hutton was out for a while. But this year they took it to a whole new level.  Literally down to their 4th and 5th string goalies regularly since all of the others have gotten hurt and are going to be out for a while.

Anderson, Tokarski, UPL, Subban...

How can one team have such terrible goaltender injury luck over the past 3 years?  

I remember when Miller used to play in 60-70 games a year every year...doesn't seem like we are getting back to that anytime soon the way things are going with injuries.

Well idk if that's entirely true. There are quite a few goalies that have played a lot of games for their teams. Vasilevsky's played 31 of 40 games. Sarros 32 of 39. Campbell, Anderson, Gibson all high 20s and there's more. Assuming they stay healthy a number of these guys will be at 60 or at least close. 

Ullmark hasn't gotten injured this year. Maybe a contributing factor here is what our goalies have to go through in terms of traffic in front, shots, having to move and stretch in efforts to stop dangerous chances? I really don't think it's "bad luck" , and signing old guys and has beens doesn't help either. 

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10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Two questions, 

1. Toronto tanked, got their guy, drafted better and bounced back pretty quick soooooooooooooo......................

2. In your opinion is the team tanking/trying to lose now (again) or are they just inept?

Absolutely 

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14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well idk if that's entirely true. There are quite a few goalies that have played a lot of games for their teams. Vasilevsky's played 31 of 40 games. Sarros 32 of 39. Campbell, Anderson, Gibson all high 20s and there's more. Assuming they stay healthy a number of these guys will be at 60 or at least close. 

Ullmark hasn't gotten injured this year. Maybe a contributing factor here is what our goalies have to go through in terms of traffic in front, shots, having to move and stretch in efforts to stop dangerous chances? I really don't think it's "bad luck" , and signing old guys and has beens doesn't help either. 

Yes that is my whole point...the Sabres are constantly having goalies hurt while the rest of the league doesn't. You pretty much just stated my case.

Edited by matter2003
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Not just our goalies… Is the conditioning program a factor??… I’m sure the analytic guys track games lost to injury… Granato seems to default on the side of caution… sitting guys who could play… Building roster toughness starts with the draft… but expectations influence behavior…

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On 1/17/2022 at 10:09 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Two questions, 

1. Toronto tanked, got their guy, drafted better and bounced back pretty quick soooooooooooooo......................

2. In your opinion is the team tanking/trying to lose now (again) or are they just inept?

Toronto had stunk for the better part of a decade accumulating talent.  The Maple Leafs were not an overnight miracle.

As for tanking, the Sabres are not selling off players who are playing well for scraps and crap like XGMTM did.  Nor did they sign a bunch of washed-up players at inflated prices.  If the Sabres were tanking, they would have career minor leaguers getting 2nd line ice time while solid, reliable performers like Okposo, Girgensons, etc. would have been moved for picks, cap dumps, and roster flotsam.  Instead, as currently made, a healthy line-up has 20 actual NHL players on it -- albeit all about 1 line/pair too high overall.  This is a standard rebuild.  They are not so much trying to lose as prioritising player development and clearing the air of The Failure (The Tank).

The one clear thing GMKA bollixed was goaltending.  Now, we should not expect to go 6 deep in goal, but, as I said elsewhere, Anderson breaking down was eminently predictable.  Honestly, Mike Bales deserves a bonus for getting all 6 guys eventually to play like they almost belong in the NHL.

On 1/18/2022 at 8:55 AM, wingnut said:

101 goalies have played this season, which is an NHL record. With half a season to go. http://www.nhl.com/stats/goalies

6 in Buffalo means at least 1 other team has played at least 4 goalies by the pigeonhole principle.  This is nuts.

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1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm sorry, you consider Okposo and Girgensens as valuable assets rather than part of the problem? Okay, we are on different planets. Amazing we haven't won a cup already then. No need to do a thing. 

Ideally, those players would comprise 2/3 of a checking/defensive line getting lower minutes. 

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