Should KA Let Jack Get The Surgery He Wants?

[bob_sauve28]

Should he? 

[LabattBlue]

Not that it is going to happen, but if John had a press conference today, announced he is retiring, and disappeared from the public spotlight forever, I’d consider that a perfect solution. 

[Curt]

Neither of these answers are relevant to the real life situation.  This is not simply a case of Adams vs Eichel.

In my view the correct answer from Adams’ point of view is:  No, allowing the surgery would put the Sabres at financial risk of losing $50M of Eichel’s contract because their insurance will not approve the surgery.

I think that it may be just that simple for Adams.  He has a job to do and just can’t put his company at that level of financial risk.  Also, the owner of the company certainly has a deciding say over this matter.

I think this question is more up to the doctors, insurance company, lawyers, and owner before it is up to Adams.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Curt

[miles]

The Sabres should only let jack choose if he waves the guarantee on his contract that if the surgery fails or causes him the inability to play anymore, then they dont pay him.

I get the whole my body my choice, i agree with it, but he cant hold his employer hostage anymore. He is getting more money each week than most people make in a year for him to basically sit out.

If he is so sure of his decision, give up the contract guarantee 

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

I think this question is more up to the doctors, insurance company, lawyers, and owner before it is up to Adams.

Most if not all realize this, and when stating “KA should do this or that” know he is not going to make a decision without input from all the other parties involved. 

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Not that it is going to happen, but if John had a press conference today, announced he is retiring, and disappeared from the public spotlight forever, I’d consider that a perfect solution. 

Given what little anyone has seen or heard from him, it almost seems like John is there already. Almost. 

[Curt]

52 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Most if not all realize this, and when stating “KA should do this or that” know he is not going to make a decision without input from all the other parties involved. 

It’s not just that he is getting input from other places.  If the Sabres insurance company will not insure the contract, I don’t think that leaves Adams with an actual decision to make.  There is no way he can just decide to approve the surgery with $50M hanging in the balance. 

[bob_sauve28]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

It’s not just that he is getting input from other places.  If the Sabres insurance company will not insure the contract, I don’t think that leaves Adams with an actual decision to make.  There is no way he can just decide to approve the surgery with $50M hanging in the balance. 

So would the insurance cover it if he had the other surgery>? 

[Doohickie]

6 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

So would the insurance cover it if he had the other surgery>? 

There's precedent for the other surgery with NHLers so I say probably yeah.

[K-9]

32 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

There's precedent for the other surgery with NHLers so I say probably yeah.

Kris Letang says, “Hi.”

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jack can have the surgery he wants at any time.  He just runs the risk of the Sabres suspending him without pay or voiding his contract.  The reason there is an impass is that Jack wants his $50 mill also.  Unfortunately for Jack, the Sabres are saying the insurance on your contract doesn't cover the surgery you want and therefore we can't approve it.  Essentially Jack wants his surgery but wants the Sabres to take all the risk.  The Sabres correctly are saying forget it.  

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

I would only allow the surgery he wants with a renegotiated contract.  That said, I have no idea what is allowed under the CBA when it comes to renegotiating contracts. 

If the Sabres were to terminate or void the contract they would have to put him through waivers first, right?  And if they did that one of KAs potential trade partners would pick him up without giving up any assets.  They would let Eichel get his surgery and place him on LTIR so they wouldn't even have to clear cap room this season.  Then they could bring him back during playoffs like Tampa did last year.  I think this is why the Sabres won't terminate the contract because he will likely be healthy enough for the playoffs, no matter which surgery he gets, so they need to get value back or else this will be called ROR2.

Edited September 30, 2021 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[COSabreFan]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Jack can have the surgery he wants at any time.  He just runs the risk of the Sabres suspending him without pay or voiding his contract.  The reason there is an impass is that Jack wants his $50 mill also.  Unfortunately for Jack, the Sabres are saying the insurance on your contract doesn't cover the surgery you want and therefore we can't approve it.  Essentially Jack wants his surgery but wants the Sabres to take all the risk.  The Sabres correctly are saying forget it.  

I’m sure the union won’t let Jack assume the risk from the surgery also, even if wanted to.  So this seems it is now more about insurance policies vs union CBA. 

[mjd1001]

I can vote yes or no, but the reasons I would have nothing to do with the choices you gave after the answers.

[PromoTheRobot]

I voted NO but not for the stated reason. It should read: "NO - The Sabres should not assume any risk for a player who's never going to play here again."

[Curt]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

So would the insurance cover it if he had the other surgery>? 

Allegedly, yes, I believe so.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, COSabreFan said:

I’m sure the union won’t let Jack assume the risk from the surgery also, even if wanted to.  So this seems it is now more about insurance policies vs union CBA. 

If Eichel was determined to have the disc replacement surgery, how would the union bar him from doing so?  They may discourage him from it, but he doesn’t need their permission.

 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

If Eichel was determined to have the disc replacement surgery, how would the union bar him from doing so?  They may discourage him from it, but he doesn’t need their permission.

 

Yeah, don't see a mechanism for the union to bar him from the surgery.

There's a real clear way for the insurance company to effectively bar it and considering we're now 5 or so months into this saga, looks like they've done so.

[LabattBlue]

Bottom line...it doesn't matter how much John hates the Sabres/Pegula's/KA, how badly he wants the ADR surgery, how he would love to play in the Olympics, blah, blah blah, he is NEVER going to give up the $50 million dollars the Sabres owe him.

The only issue at hand...if the mexican standoff over surgery options continues, at some point do the Sabres try and suspend him without pay?

I'm wondering how unprecedented this whole mess is? In terms of the big 4 North American sports leagues, is there a comparable(s) situation from the last 25 years of so

[bob_sauve28]

8 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Bottom line...it doesn't matter how much John hates the Sabres/Pegula's/KA, how badly he wants the ADR surgery, how he would love to play in the Olympics, blah, blah blah, he is NEVER going to give up the $50 million dollars the Sabres owe him.

The only issue at hand...if the mexican standoff over surgery options continues, at some point do the Sabres try and suspend him without pay?

I'm wondering how unprecedented this whole mess is? In terms of the big 4 North American sports leagues, is there a comparable(s) situation from the last 25 years of so

I can't remember anything like this before. 

[Carmel Corn]

I personally have mixed views on the team's proposed fusion procedure and can be sympathetic to the ADR idea....after all, somebody has to be first.  That said, some solid reasons already stated as to why the team should not allow it...as the contract is right now.  If Eichel is willing to waive the NMC clause to allow the Sabres to execute any trade they want, whenever they want without a deadline, I would view that as a step in the right direction.

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Bottom line...it doesn't matter how much John hates the Sabres/Pegula's/KA, how badly he wants the ADR surgery, how he would love to play in the Olympics, blah, blah blah, he is NEVER going to give up the $50 million dollars the Sabres owe him.

The only issue at hand...if the mexican standoff over surgery options continues, at some point do the Sabres try and suspend him without pay?

I'm wondering how unprecedented this whole mess is? In terms of the big 4 North American sports leagues, is there a comparable(s) situation from the last 25 years of so

Agree w/ the bolded.

Only really see 4 possible outcomes for this:

1.  Sabres & Eichel agree to see if some combo of rest & PT get him back to the point of playing;

2. Eichel backs down from the ADR surgery demand/request & gets the fusion surgery;

3. Jack stands his ground & the Sabres suspend him; or

4. Brisson finds a suitor willing to get close to Adams ask & Jack becomes a member of another team.

 

Right now, w/ no particular insider info, expect either 1 or 3 for the immediate term.

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Bottom line...it doesn't matter how much John hates the Sabres/Pegula's/KA, how badly he wants the ADR surgery, how he would love to play in the Olympics, blah, blah blah, he is NEVER going to give up the $50 million dollars the Sabres owe him.

The only issue at hand...if the mexican standoff over surgery options continues, at some point do the Sabres try and suspend him without pay?

I'm wondering how unprecedented this whole mess is? In terms of the big 4 North American sports leagues, is there a comparable(s) situation from the last 25 years of so

I suspect it’s rarer than Sabres players named Jack. 
 

Anyway, regarding suspension, I wonder if the Sabres can do that if he refuses their prescribed treatment? But even if they can suspend him without pay, it’s something I hope they would never do. That seems punitive given they would have been happy to pay him if things were different. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Unfortunately for Jack, the Sabres are saying the insurance on your contract doesn't cover the surgery you want and therefore we can't approve it.  Essentially Jack wants his surgery but wants the Sabres to take all the risk.  The Sabres correctly are saying forget it.  

 

This is the accepted situation, and I agree it makes sense, but has it ever actually been confirmed?

I have never seen it out of the mouths of any of the parties involved, or reported as anything or than speculation.

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I suspect it’s rarer than Sabres players named Jack. 
 

Anyway, regarding suspension, I wonder if the Sabres can do that if he refuses their prescribed treatment? But even if they can suspend him without pay, it’s something I hope they would never do. That seems punitive given they would have been happy to pay him if things were different. 

 

Definitely hope it doesn't come to pass, but if all the involved medical staffs (staves?) agree that surgery of some sort is necessary to get Eichel able to pass a physical & he refuses the only one offered, then the Sabres have 3 unappealing choices: keep paying him to sit indefinitely, trade him for pennies on the $, or suspend him until he either retires, relents, or a new treatment plan somehow gets devised.