Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

The Hall situation makes me even more enraged about this organization. Do you know how far this franchise has sunk? In a late season and nationally televised Buffalo game one of the announcers said: "I'm surprised at how well the Sabrers are playing. They look like a real NHL team in this game. How freaking pathetic is that!

 

Yes the Hall and Eakin signings are an indictment of KA and the organization itself.  There was also no excuse for waiting weeks to fire RK.  

 

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@JohnC

you are completely missing the point.  As I said our incompetent GM agreed to Hall’s terms.  That proves his incompetence.  

It’s certainly ok got Hall to ask for the sky and moon.  Hall said all the right things when he came here such as he wanted to make us better, be a Sabres longterm and be part of the solution.  His play and comments after leaving prove otherwise.  He had no intention of being here longterm.  He was using us as a stepping stone.  You may enjoy being used, but I certainly don’t.  

@dudacek said above Hall is a perfect guy to hate on.

And no he didn’t want to sign here for the longterm.  Saying you want a longterm deal but making the terms outrageous behind closes doors is just a PR stunt.  

We can’t say this to a certainty, as we can’t rule out Hall changing his mind while here. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes the Hall and Eakin signings are an indictment of KA and the organization itself.  There was also no excuse for waiting weeks to fire RK.  

 

I'm not going to get caught up on the failing of any individual player. The core of the problem isn't with any of the many foolish player transactions. The self-sabotage of this franchise relates to the organization, starting at the top. As with the Bills during the Rex clown act until the right staffing and football structure were in place little else mattered. 

[JohnC]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@JohnC

you are completely missing the point.  As I said our incompetent GM agreed to Hall’s terms.  That proves his incompetence.  

It’s certainly ok got Hall to ask for the sky and moon.  Hall said all the right things when he came here such as he wanted to make us better, be a Sabres longterm and be part of the solution.  His play and comments after leaving prove otherwise.  He had no intention of being here longterm.  He was using us as a stepping stone.  You may enjoy being used, but I certainly don’t.  

@dudacek said above Hall is a perfect guy to hate on.

And no he didn’t want to sign here for the longterm.  Saying you want a longterm deal but making the terms outrageous behind closes doors is just a PR stunt.  

I'm not missing the point. You are.  When players/agents negotiate with teams do you believe that reps from the organization believe everything that is said is true or sincere. Of course not. KA may or may not be a good GM but he is not naive to the level of stupidity you are ascribing to him. The front office signed Hall because they thought it was in their best interest. The reality is that his talents weren't maximized here because of the dysfunction within the staff. The truth is that what Hall experienced is the same frustrating experience that other players on the roster are experiencing. That's why they want out. I consider Reinhart to be one of the most honest players on the team with respect to effort. He wants out. Jack is a dazzling talent. I'm aware that he is hurt but he most likely also wants out. You may be hung up and upset about the attitude of a particular player but it is misplaced. Your disgust and displeasure should be directed toward the continuous unsettled situation here instead of the insincerity of a player when negotiating a contract. 

[dudacek]

59 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm not missing the point. You are.  When players/agents negotiate with teams do you believe that reps from the organization believe everything that is said is true or sincere. Of course not. KA may or may not be a good GM but he is not naive to the level of stupidity you are ascribing to him. The front office signed Hall because they thought it was in their best interest. The reality is that his talents weren't maximized here because of the dysfunction within the staff. The truth is that what Hall experienced is the same frustrating experience that other players on the roster are experiencing. That's why they want out. I consider Reinhart to be one of the most honest players on the team with respect to effort. He wants out. Jack is a dazzling talent. I'm aware that he is hurt but he most likely also wants out. You may be hung up and upset about the attitude of a particular player but it is misplaced. Your disgust and displeasure should be directed toward the continuous unsettled situation here instead of the insincerity of a player when negotiating a contract. 

I agree the bolded is partially true.

Absolving Taylor Hall for his role, however, is willful blindness. He was acquired and paid a boatload of money to help fix that dysfunction. He not only failed, within two months he gave up even trying.

He does not share the experience of Jack and Sam and has not earned their grace.

Edited May 30, 2021 by dudacek

[PASabreFan]

Hot take: Hall's posture at the end of the season was a more principled one than Reinhart's. Hall thinks of himself as a team-first guy and there was absolutely nothing to play for, his disappointment so profound he couldn't function; he wasn't about to go out and put on a display of passion in the name of nothing, scoring a bunch of meaningless goals.

I'll listen and hang up.

[GoPre]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Hot take: Hall's posture at the end of the season was a more principled one than Reinhart's. Hall thinks of himself as a team-first guy and there was absolutely nothing to play for, his disappointment so profound he couldn't function; he wasn't about to go out and put on a display of passion in the name of nothing, scoring a bunch of meaningless goals.

I'll listen and hang up.

I’ll second that 

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I agree the bolded is partially true.

Absolving Taylor Hall for his role, however, is willful blindness. He was acquired and paid a boatload of money to help fix that dysfunction. He not only failed, within two months he gave up even trying.

He does not share the experience of Jack and Sam and has not earned their grace.

If Jack and Sam were both UFAs like Hall was they both would be gone and feel a sense of relief. 

[PASabreFan]

1 minute ago, GoPre said:

I’ll second that 

What is wrong with you?

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Jack and Sam were both UFAs like Hall was they both would be gone and feel a sense of relief. 

And...?

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

And...?

If you can't figure out the obvious then so be it. 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

If you can't figure out the obvious then so be it. 

I am as clueless as he seems to be.  It is not at all obvious to me.  Please spell it out in simple, but complete terms.

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I am as clueless as he seems to be.  It is not at all obvious to me.  Please spell it out in simple, but complete terms.

If you can figure out the point that I have been making then so be it. 

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you can figure out the point that I have been making then so be it. 

Are you absolving the rest of the organization of most of their sins as long as the Pegulas are involved like you seem to be absolving Hall?

What do you think of Kevyn Adams mantra - repeated by Karmanos - ““We are going to get this right with the people that want to be here. We want players and people in this organization that are passionate, that want to win and that want to be here and are excited to put this jersey on and make the city proud.” Do you think this is a necessary step toward fixing the culture?

How will you know if/when the Pegulas have taken the steps you think they need to and start judging other elements of the org on their own merits, rather than giving them a pass, based on the Pegula’s past?

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Are you absolving the rest of the organization of most of their sins as long as the Pegulas are involved like you seem to be absolving Hall?

What do you think of Kevyn Adams mantra - repeated by Karmanos - ““We are going to get this right with the people that want to be here. We want players and people in this organization that are passionate, that want to win and that want to be here and are excited to put this jersey on and make the city proud.” Do you think this is a necessary step toward fixing the culture?

How will you know if/when the Pegulas have taken the steps you think they need to and start judging other elements of the org on their own merits, rather than giving them a pass, based on the Pegula’s past?

You act as if I am demonizing the owner. I'm not.  There is plenty of blame to spread around. And I'm not absolving anyone. As far as Hall it was the front office's decision to sign him and construct the contract in the way it did. So I have no fault with him wanting to go to certain teams and not others. The NMC was in the contract that he and the organization signed. The lesson that I take away from the Hall episode that many others don't is that the production of a player is significantly influenced by the environment that he is in. It was a negative situation here for him (as it was for a lot of other players)  while it is a positive situation for him in Boston. 

The Pegulas have owned the franchise for 10 years. How many HCs and GMs have they hired during their tenure? Do you think that this revolving door of staff is a major factor in the franchise's instability and dismal record? I do. 

I'm not an irredeemable pessimist. What this bottom feeding and mocked franchise needs is stability and a direction (blueprint), and then have the fortitude to follow through with it. I'm a strong advocate for Granato. No one can deny the dramatic change in play after he took over. And I believe that KA has to be given the authority and time to execute his plan. That is not to say that he should have been hired for the GM position. It is also essential that the scouting staff be rebuilt and given the resources to properly evaluate prospects and pros. Gutting the scouting department to save pennies on the dollar was beyond being stupid. From a competitive standpoint it was self-sabotaging.   

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You act as if I am demonizing the owner. I'm not.  There is plenty of blame to spread around. And I'm not absolving anyone. As far as Hall it was the front office's decision to sign him and construct the contract in the way it did. So I have no fault with him wanting to go to certain teams and not others. The NMC was in the contract that he and the organization signed. The lesson that I take away from the Hall episode that many others don't is that the production of a player is significantly influenced by the environment that he is in. It was a negative situation here for him (as it was for a lot of other players)  while it is a positive situation for him in Boston. 
 

You are talking about Hall using his his NMC, I am talking about Hall not earning his $8 million. The lesson I take from the Hall episode that you don’t seem to is that he lacked the strength of character to battle through the negative environment and try to be part of the solution. It seems to me like you are absolving Hall.

The Pegulas have owned the franchise for 10 years. How many HCs and GMs have they hired during their tenure? Do you think that this revolving door of staff is a major factor in the franchise's instability and dismal record? I do. 
 

I absolutely do. I also think that every coach or GM they fired, with the exceptions of Ruff and Nolan were bad at their job and needed to be fired.

I'm not an irredeemable pessimist. What this bottom feeding and mocked franchise needs is stability and a direction (blueprint), and then have the fortitude to follow through with it. I'm a strong advocate for Granato. No one can deny the dramatic change in play after he took over. And I believe that KA has to be given the authority and time to execute his plan. That is not to say that he should have been hired for the GM position. It is also essential that the scouting staff be rebuilt and given the resources to properly evaluate prospects and pros. Gutting the scouting department to save pennies on the dollar was beyond being stupid. From a competitive standpoint it was self-sabotaging.   
 

Generally speaking, I agree. But, again,  nearly everything you posted was about the Pegulas, and very little about the questions I posed above.
 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

@JohnC Why do you ignore Hall’s part in the contract?  We all agree that KA is in over his head and that the organization sucks.  However that doesn't absolve Hall of his obligations under that contract to give maximum effort for this franchise.  He didn’t.  

Contrast Hall’s play to Sam Reinhart. Reinhart, who is also an FA and likely wants to go elsewhere, gave maximum effort even after the streak and had arguably his best season of his career. Had Hall played to Sam’s level of professionalism maybe things would have been different and we would gave received more then 2 goals from this jerk.  Someone up thread said Hall was a team first guy.  Lol.  He is one poster child for me first players.  He never showed team leadership in any stop in the NHL. Even in his MVP year, he was a solo act.  

Edited May 31, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@JohnC Why do you ignore Hall’s part in the contract?  We all agree that KA is in over his head and that the organization sucks.  However that doesn't absolve Hall of his obligations under that contract to give maximum effort for this franchise.  He didn’t.  

Contrast Hall’s play to Sam Reinhart. Reinhart, who is also an FA and likely wants to go elsewhere, gave maximum effort even after the streak and had arguably his best season of his career. Had Hall played to Sam’s level of professionalism maybe things would have been different and we would gave received more then 2 goals from this jerk.  Someone up thread said Hall was a team first guy.  Lol.  He is one poster child for me first players.  He never showed team leadership in any stop in the NHL. Even in his MVP year, he was a solo act.  

With respect to the first highlighted segment that is the main issue that needs to be addressed before there is meaningful change. You are getting caught up in a micro issue of a single transaction when the problem is with an organization that makes an accumulation of decisions that are deadly crushing.  

If he had such an inglorious history then why was he signed? If his contract was structured in such a way that made the franchise vulnerable then why did the organization agree to it? That's my point!

Edited May 31, 2021 by JohnC

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

With respect to the first highlighted segment that is the main issue that needs to be addressed before there is meaningful change. You are getting caught up in a micro issue of a single transaction when the problem is with an organization that makes an accumulation of decisions that are deadly crushing.  

If he had such an inglorious history then why was he signed? If his contract was structured in such a way that made the franchise vulnerable then why did the organization agree to it? That's my point!

Couldn't it be on Krueger's say so? Why wouldn't a new GM give his coach the players he asks for? 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Couldn't it be on Krueger's say so? Why wouldn't a new GM give his coach the players he asks for? 

I'm very sure that Krueger was influential in the Hall signing and other signings such as Eakin last offseason. I'll carry it out further that the newly installed GM deferred to Krueger. It isn't surprising that different organizations have different structures with different power centers. In some organizations coaches have more say than others with respect to personnel decisions. There isn't a strict definition as to what is the best way to conduct business. When a franchise has struggled for half a generation in an environment of constantly changing coaches and front offices the paltry results from that instability shouldn't be surprising. 

As I have stated in prior posts I am not an irredeemable pessimist. I'm hoping that Granato is signed as the coach and that KA and his staff are given enough time and space to be set a course and follow through. As we all well know this constant state of flux is a pathway to nowhere. 

[LTS]

23 hours ago, dudacek said:

Taylor Hall was paid $8 million to score two goals for the Buffalo Sabres, packed it in and gave up during a record-breaking losing streak, sabotaged our efforts to maximize our trade return for him and his now kicking ass for our worst enemy.

If you can’t hate on a guy for that, who can you hate on?

Frankly the longer you let the dude live in your head the more he wins. Taylor Hall is irrelevant to me that I won't even bother to hate him.

[#freejame]

22 hours ago, LTS said:

Frankly the longer you let the dude live in your head the more he wins. Taylor Hall is irrelevant to me that I won't even bother to hate him.

I have a theory that those who hate Hall also believed we would be competing for a playoff spot this year and since we didn’t, he is catching a good deal of blame and animosity. 

[Thorny]

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Couldn't it be on Krueger's say so? Why wouldn't a new GM give his coach the players he asks for? 

Cause the guy hadn't been in the NHL for like a decade or whatever? Whoever's decision it was to bow at the alter of Krueger's every whim this offseason is every bit to blame as Krueger is

[inkman]

Just now, Thorny said:

Cause the guy hadn't been in the NHL for like a decade or whatever? Whoever's decision it was to bow at the alter of Krueger's every whim this offseason is every bit to blame as Krueger is

What if his boss told him to comply with Ralph’s wishes?

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, #freejame said:

I have a theory that those who hate Hall also believed we would be competing for a playoff spot this year and since we didn’t, he is catching a good deal of blame and animosity. 

 

4 minutes ago, #freejame said:

I have a theory that those who hate Eichel also believed we would be competing for a playoff spot this year and since we didn’t, he is catching a good deal of blame and animosity.