Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Really expect people are underestimating the value of Mittelstadt being 2 years older that Cozens at THIS moment.  Shootica's idea has promise, IMHO.

YEP.

Unfortunately my viewpoint can only be informed by what I saw from Mittelstadt in NHL games and that was very bad. If he's much improved he's much improved but that's the starting point. 

Cozens is a neutral at the NHL level to me at this time. 

Mitts may be ready for the NHL but he's not ready to be a centre, imo, in any capacity. 

[Shootica]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Chris Talyor said that Mitts was playing more of a 200 ft game and Cozens is already defensively responsible. 

Very true.  I think there is promise for that line to develop into Skinner - Mitts - Cozens as the year goes on.  But to start I think having someone more experienced mix in there is beneficial, both for Mitts and Cozens' development and for team defense until those two are a little more proven.

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

That actually could work & has the added bonus of pretty much guaranteeing Eichel-Hall-Dahlin start OT w/ the puck as Lazar wins it back to Rasmus & then hightails it off the ice for Hall.

Wow, I completely forgot about how we did that last year.

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Cozens was listed as the RW on that line so that's why I had him there. Krueger has seemed to try and play these guys where he sees them in season. 

Now that I'm looking at it again and people keep mentioning it - perhaps that is wishful thinking. If Cozens isn't expected to be in the opening night lineup, they may indeed have him in a spot he won't be playing game 1. And Sheahan was actually at RW. So, it's probably:

Hall - Eichel - Thompson

Olofsson - Staal - Reinhart

Rieder - Eakin - Okposo

Skinner - Lazar - Sheahan 

If that *is* the bottom 6, we won't be getting any scoring from it, at all, until a ready!Cozens or a significantlyimproved!Mittelstadt get in there. 

And we don't really have any waiting-time runway, either, if we want to make the playoffs. 

If Cozens and Mitts aren't ready.. I guess KA should have supplemented the B6. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Cozens was listed as the RW on that line so that's why I had him there. Krueger has seemed to try and play these guys where he sees them in season. 

Now that I'm looking at it again and people keep mentioning it - perhaps that is wishful thinking. If Cozens isn't expected to be in the opening night lineup, they may indeed have him in a spot he won't be playing game 1. And Sheahan was actually at RW. So, it's probably:

Hall - Eichel - Thompson

Olofsson - Staal - Reinhart

Rieder - Eakin - Okposo

Skinner - Lazar - Sheahan 

That bottom 6 is simply dreadful. Sheahan came here on a PTO and Rieder was signed for the minimum.  These guys are barely hanging on in the NHL and on a good team they wouldn’t make the roster.  Lazar is a career minor leaguer who did enough to get an NHL contract, but isn’t more then a utility depth forward.  KO is a player who found a role as a checking forward as his production has fallen from 44 pts to 29 to 19 over the last 3 years.  Eakin’s PT has fallen from 17 minutes to 14 over the last few years and scored 15 pts last season.  These are all 4th line or taxi squad players.  To play any of them higher in the lineup is a mistake.  Yet here we are predicting that all 5 will be start the season in Buffalo and on the ice.  Complete garbage.   Why am I the only one who seems pissed off about this?  

[Curt]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Cozens was listed as the RW on that line so that's why I had him there. Krueger has seemed to try and play these guys where he sees them in season. 

Now that I'm looking at it again and people keep mentioning it - perhaps that is wishful thinking. If Cozens isn't expected to be in the opening night lineup, they may indeed have him in a spot he won't be playing game 1. And Sheahan was actually at RW. So, it's probably:

Hall - Eichel - Thompson

Olofsson - Staal - Reinhart

Rieder - Eakin - Okposo

Skinner - Lazar - Sheahan 

Cozens is at RW with Eakin today, but Okposo is taking the day off from practice.  I would expect that if he was practicing today, Okposo would in that spot, as he has been every other day.

[freester]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That bottom 6 is simply dreadful. Sheahan came here on a PTO and Rieder was signed for the minimum.  These guys are barely hanging on in the NHL and on a good team they wouldn’t make the roster.  Lazar is a career minor leaguer who did enough to get an NHL contract, but isn’t more then a utility depth forward.  KO is a player who found a role as a checking forward as his production has fallen from 44 pts to 29 to 19 over the last 3 years.  Eakin’s PT has fallen from 17 minutes to 14 over the last few years and scored 15 pts last season.  These are all 4th line or taxi squad players.  To play any of them higher in the lineup is a mistake.  Yet here we are predicting that all 5 will be start the season in Buffalo and on the ice.  Complete garbage.   Why am I the only one who seems pissed off about this?  

The rest of us are still in the denial stage 

[freester]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Cozens is at RW with Eakin today, but Okposo is taking the day off from practice.  I would expect that if he was practicing today, Okposo would in that spot, as he has been every other day.

I think RK doesn’t think Cozens is ready. 

[Thorny]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That bottom 6 is simply dreadful. Sheahan came here on a PTO and Rieder was signed for the minimum.  These guys are barely hanging on in the NHL and on a good team they wouldn’t make the roster.  Lazar is a career minor leaguer who did enough to get an NHL contract, but isn’t more then a utility depth forward.  KO is a player who found a role as a checking forward as his production has fallen from 44 pts to 29 to 19 over the last 3 years.  Eakin’s PT has fallen from 17 minutes to 14 over the last few years and scored 15 pts last season.  These are all 4th line or taxi squad players.  To play any of them higher in the lineup is a mistake.  Yet here we are predicting that all 5 will be start the season in Buffalo and on the ice.  Complete garbage.   Why am I the only one who seems pissed off about this?  

I don't know how many times I have to state we aren't going to get any semblance of production from our B6 with the current imagined iteration of the lines for me to make you think I'm also worried about the B6 haha

Edited January 10, 2021 by Thorny

[LabattBlue]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That bottom 6 is simply dreadful. Sheahan came here on a PTO and Rieder was signed for the minimum.  These guys are barely hanging on in the NHL and on a good team they wouldn’t make the roster.  Lazar is a career minor leaguer who did enough to get an NHL contract, but isn’t more then a utility depth forward.  KO is a player who found a role as a checking forward as his production has fallen from 44 pts to 29 to 19 over the last 3 years.  Eakin’s PT has fallen from 17 minutes to 14 over the last few years and scored 15 pts last season.  These are all 4th line or taxi squad players.  To play any of them higher in the lineup is a mistake.  Yet here we are predicting that all 5 will be start the season in Buffalo and on the ice.  Complete garbage.   Why am I the only one who seems pissed off about this?  

Don't worry there will be plenty to join us, if the bottom six does little to nothing offensively over the 1st ten games, and Hutton's eyes start crossing again.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

No idea.  But would Adams NOT be in the running for Exec of the Year should he address what looks to be arguably Botterill's 2nd biggest mistake?

The corollary to Adams earning the Exec of the Year for trading Skinner and his anchor contract is that the GM who trades for him would earn the worst Exec of the Year for making that deal. 🤡

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, Curt said:

Cozens is at RW with Eakin today, but Okposo is taking the day off from practice.  I would expect that if he was practicing today, Okposo would in that spot, as he has been every other day.

I know lol

[Curt]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That bottom 6 is simply dreadful. Sheahan came here on a PTO and Rieder was signed for the minimum.  These guys are barely hanging on in the NHL and on a good team they wouldn’t make the roster.  Lazar is a career minor leaguer who did enough to get an NHL contract, but isn’t more then a utility depth forward.  KO is a player who found a role as a checking forward as his production has fallen from 44 pts to 29 to 19 over the last 3 years.  Eakin’s PT has fallen from 17 minutes to 14 over the last few years and scored 15 pts last season.  These are all 4th line or taxi squad players.  To play any of them higher in the lineup is a mistake.  Yet here we are predicting that all 5 will be start the season in Buffalo and on the ice.  Complete garbage.   Why am I the only one who seems pissed off about this?  

We’ve know since free agency who they had on the roster.

Its not very good, especially with Girgensons out, although I’m not so confident as you that Eakin is going to play like a borderline NHLer.

But mostly, yes, those bottom 6 veterans are not very good.  I’ve said it many times.  The offensive upside of the bottom 6 is heavily dependent upon whether any of the young guys can come in and provide a spark.  Cozens, Mitts, Routsalainen

I don’t have a good feeling for what that second bottom 6 line will be Skinner-someone-someone.  Seems like the players have been shifting a lot day-to-day.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Curt

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Don't worry there will be plenty to join us, if the bottom six does little to nothing offensively over the 1st ten games, and Hutton's eyes start crossing again.

By that time, the season will essentially be over.  Let the tanking begin.

Edited January 10, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Shootica]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That bottom 6 is simply dreadful. Sheahan came here on a PTO and Rieder was signed for the minimum.  These guys are barely hanging on in the NHL and on a good team they wouldn’t make the roster.  Lazar is a career minor leaguer who did enough to get an NHL contract, but isn’t more then a utility depth forward.  KO is a player who found a role as a checking forward as his production has fallen from 44 pts to 29 to 19 over the last 3 years.  Eakin’s PT has fallen from 17 minutes to 14 over the last few years and scored 15 pts last season.  These are all 4th line or taxi squad players.  To play any of them higher in the lineup is a mistake.  Yet here we are predicting that all 5 will be start the season in Buffalo and on the ice.  Complete garbage.   Why am I the only one who seems pissed off about this?  

I don't think the situation is that bad.  Sheahan you're right about, but Reider would be an effective role player on any team.  Same with Okposo.  And Eakin is more than fine for a fourth line player, as it seems were using him.

I'd really be surprised if Sheahan is in our opening night lineup, I think he's here as insurance if one of the fourth line guys go down.  So to me Lazar is the only one I see playing above his weight if you will.  Not ideal, but I see it as a small problem in the grand scheme of things.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Shootica said:

I don't think the situation is that bad.  Sheahan you're right about, but Reider would be an effective role player on any team.  Same with Okposo.  And Eakin is more than fine for a fourth line player, as it seems were using him.

I'd really be surprised if Sheahan is in our opening night lineup, I think he's here as insurance if one of the fourth line guys go down.  So to me Lazar is the only one I see playing above his weight if you will.  Not ideal, but I see it as a small problem in the grand scheme of things.

I’m perfectly happy with a 4th line of Rieder Eakin KO.  That should be an effective and capable 4th line.   What I’m not Ok with a lineup with those 3 as a 3rd line and then a non-NHL line of Lazar, Sheahan and someone else.  That’s 10 minutes night of losing hockey that we can’t afford to give away.  

At least sub in Mitts for either Lazar or Sheahan at C or wing so that we have at least someone with some O talent to try to get Skinner some help.

Why not try Skinner Mitts Sheahan or Skinner Lazar Mitts?  The status quo is garbage.  Have some guts are try something that at least has a chance not to be garbage.

[Brawndo]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That bottom 6 is simply dreadful. Sheahan came here on a PTO and Rieder was signed for the minimum.  These guys are barely hanging on in the NHL and on a good team they wouldn’t make the roster.  Lazar is a career minor leaguer who did enough to get an NHL contract, but isn’t more then a utility depth forward.  KO is a player who found a role as a checking forward as his production has fallen from 44 pts to 29 to 19 over the last 3 years.  Eakin’s PT has fallen from 17 minutes to 14 over the last few years and scored 15 pts last season.  These are all 4th line or taxi squad players.  To play any of them higher in the lineup is a mistake.  Yet here we are predicting that all 5 will be start the season in Buffalo and on the ice.  Complete garbage.   Why am I the only one who seems pissed off about this?  

Signing Eakin to a 2 year 2.25 AAV Deal and expecting Him to fill Larsson’s Role is concerning. Completely misreading the current market and signing Zemgus to a 3 year 2.2 AAV deal is another cringe worthy moment.

Bringing in Reider and Sheahan on league minimum are good moves including retaining , but expecting the five to make up 83 percent of the Bottom Six is a recipe for disaster especially in this division. 

[Brawndo]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m perfectly happy with a 4th line of Rieder Eakin KO.  That should be an effective and capable 4th line.   What I’m not Ok with a lineup with those 3 as a 3rd line and then a non-NHL line of Lazar, Sheahan and someone else.  That’s 10 minutes night of losing hockey that we can’t afford to give away.  

At least sub in Mitts for either Lazar or Sheahan at C or wing so that we have at least someone with some O talent to try to get Skinner some help.

Why not try Skinner Mitts Sheahan or Skinner Lazar Mitts?  The status quo is garbage.  Have some guts are try something that at least has a chance not to be garbage.

I think Sheahan would be better suited  as a center for defensive line then Eakin. 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I think Sheahan would be better suited  as a center for defensive line then Eakin. 

Sheahan or Lazar both would be.  But it looks like the checking line will be the 3rd line rather than the 4th & Krueger wants Eakin as his 3C.  So, Eakin centers the checking line.  Really a darn shame Mittelstadt &/or Cozens weren't 1 year older 'cause really expect at least 1 if not both would be ready to be a 3C next year & there wouldn't be the pressure to make sure the checking line is the 3rd line.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The really sad thing about how RK has treated Skinner is that before RK showed up Skinner was one of the top 5 on 5 scorers in the NHL for years.  This team is desperate for 5 on 5 scoring and RK has taken a proven 5 on 5 scorer and placed him on a line with NHL leftovers who he’ll play 10 minutes a night or less.

It’s also fascinating is that RK finally has Montour playing as a RHD, a year to late.  He seems very stubborn and not very flexible once he makes a lineup decision.  This worries me.  
 

[Taro T]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

The really sad thing about how RK has treated Skinner is that before RK showed up Skinner was one of the top 5 on 5 scorers in the NHL for years.  This team is desperate for 5 on 5 scoring and RK has taken a proven 5 on 5 scorer and placed him on a line with NHL leftovers who he’ll play 10 minutes a night or less.

It’s also fascinating is that RK finally has Montour playing as a RHD, a year to late.  He seems very stubborn and not very flexible once he makes a lineup decision.  This worries me.  
 

He played Montour on the right side before Scandella was traded but not very often after that as the deep D suddenly had a self inflicted hole on the left side.

[GASabresIUFAN]

35 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I think Sheahan would be better suited  as a center for defensive line then Eakin. 

Unfortunately Eakin Okposo is one of RK’s “pairs.” Our stubborn coach showed last year how reluctant he is to break up a pair even if it makes the team better

Just now, Taro T said:

He played Montour on the right side before Scandella was traded but not very often after that as the deep D suddenly had a self inflicted hole on the left side.

The problem is that Miller should have been the player forced to play out of position not Montour.

[Taro T]

His being injured to start the year didn't help him settle in with a steady partner either when he finally did come back.

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Unfortunately Eakin Okposo is one of RK’s “pairs.” Our stubborn coach showed last year how reluctant he is to break up a pair even if it makes the team better

The problem is that Miller should have been the player forced to play out of position not Montour.

No doubt.  But Miller was bad the time or 2 he was tried there while on the occasional breakout from the doghouse.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

His being injured to start the year didn't help him settle in with a steady partner either when he finally did come back.

No doubt.  But Miller was bad the time or 2 he was tried there while on the occasional breakout from the doghouse.

I said when we acquired Miller that he was a liability in his own zone.  I thought at the time that he acquired Miller as a 3rd line pairing player, 2nd PP guy and expansion bait.  Jbot wasn’t sure that Joker was NHL ready and would effectively supplant Miller in camp.  Our top 4 last year were same top 4 heading into this season.  I never understood RK’s decision to move Montour to the left which made his top 4 weaker.  

[Thorny]

37 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Sheahan or Lazar both would be.  But it looks like the checking line will be the 3rd line rather than the 4th & Krueger wants Eakin as his 3C.  So, Eakin centers the checking line.  Really a darn shame Mittelstadt &/or Cozens weren't 1 year older 'cause really expect at least 1 if not both would be ready to be a 3C next year & there wouldn't be the pressure to make sure the checking line is the 3rd line.

Ya, and the checking line was the 3rd line last year, too. Is anyone else still somewhat worried that Krueger may attempt to use the checking line like he did last year?

We've all been kinda assuming it will change but what if it's really as simple as, Larsson's brother was right and the Sabres just didn't want him. They think he's easily replaced. That the line with Eakin can take on the same matchups as Larsson's did, and do better?

That we can get away with a low-ceiling mish-mash 4th line of Skinner and the Lazars of the world because we have a Top 9?

Edited January 10, 2021 by Thorny

[LTS]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Yes the GM is gone, but the owners who have final say especially on contracts that LARGE are still here.  The same owners who have destroyed this franchise for the last 10 years.  I've said it since the start of last season, the Sabres better hope for a compliance buyout in the next CBA, or Skinner's contract is going to kill them for years to come.

 

We will see how the season plays out, but it sound like the differences between RK and Skinner are still there.  It's up to Ralph to break bread and make it work with Skinner, as he is not going anywhere.

Those words say everything I need to know about Skinner right now.  Yes, the owners allowed the large contract, so be it. They aren't going to let his $9M contract dictate the team. It's clear that's the message being sent. There doesn't appear to be any players too concerned about where Skinner is at in the lineup. I think the team is on board with where things are and Skinner will have to face the facts soon. 

His contract is big, no doubt, but as we've said, good GMs find a way.