Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[Thorny]

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As I said before, we cannot start the season with all 5 of Rieder, Eakin, Lazar, Sheahan and KO in the lineup.  

KO is a Good checking line W

I'm choosing to hope Eakin and Rieder will be, too. For me, I counted them in the "adequately filled" category. They aren't equipped to be the checking line of last year, but assuming the usage is altered, I think I see satisfactory. Satisfactory is the name of the game for me with regards to the bottom 6 - we are going to gain ground on other teams with our top 6. My main focus is on not actively giving any of that back when the other 6 are on. 

Lazar, Sheahan. I'd like to see both replaced, but tbh, my thought is - if 2 components of a line are solid, it can potentially get away with a 3rd lesser player (provided it's not a key line). Therefore, theoretically even getting ONE of Lazar and Sheahan replaced should bring that line to 2/3 after including Skinner, saving the line. 

Imagine if Cozens hypothetically shows himself to be 3C ready and worthy:

Skinner - Cozens - Sheahan 

... I think would work. Again, this is stipulating the hypothetical that Cozens is adequately ready. That could honestly be a solid LW - C scoring combo, w/ Sheahan digging pucks out ala Girgensons. Favourable matchups. If the line is Skinner - Lazar - Sheahan, well, you've just lost Skinner too along with Cozens. 

[PerreaultForever]

15 hours ago, Curt said:

 

So, I take this to mean that you do not believe there is any possible configuration of lines in which Skinner plays well on line 3?

The only reason that I put out this post is because Skinner skated with the 3rd line in camp yesterday.

Not exactly. What I'm saying is if Ralph feels Skinner's play isn't up to 2nd line level then we are sunk. I'm kind of going on the idea that the 2 top lines are the top lines and get top line minutes. If Ralph has some sort of roll all 4 lines and spread everything around philosophy it might be different, but with the top line loaded as it is (Hall/Eichel together) this seems unlikely. More likely the minutes diminish as you move down the line up in a traditional way. 

[Weave]

8 hours ago, Thorny said:

KO is a Good checking line W

I'm choosing to hope Eakin and Rieder will be, too. For me, I counted them in the "adequately filled" category. They aren't equipped to be the checking line of last year, but assuming the usage is altered, I think I see satisfactory. Satisfactory is the name of the game for me with regards to the bottom 6 - we are going to gain ground on other teams with our top 6. My main focus is on not actively giving any of that back when the other 6 are on. 

Lazar, Sheahan. I'd like to see both replaced, but tbh, my thought is - if 2 components of a line are solid, it can potentially get away with a 3rd lesser player (provided it's not a key line). Therefore, theoretically even getting ONE of Lazar and Sheahan replaced should bring that line to 2/3 after including Skinner, saving the line. 

Imagine if Cozens hypothetically shows himself to be 3C ready and worthy:

Skinner - Cozens - Sheahan 

... I think would work. Again, this is stipulating the hypothetical that Cozens is adequately ready. That could honestly be a solid LW - C scoring combo, w/ Sheahan digging pucks out ala Girgensons. Favourable matchups. If the line is Skinner - Lazar - Sheahan, well, you've just lost Skinner too along with Cozens. 

After one scrimmage and minimal practice time with the team (but he's been playing at a higher intensity level than everyone else for weeks now) it sure looked like Mitts was more ready than Cozens.  I wasn't impressed at all with Mitts work on the O zone.  I was impressed with the improvement in his overall positional play.  How's your confidence level if it goes Skinner - Mitts- Sheahan, bucause I think that's more likely at this moment.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Weave

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

KO is a Good checking line W

I'm choosing to hope Eakin and Rieder will be, too. For me, I counted them in the "adequately filled" category. They aren't equipped to be the checking line of last year, but assuming the usage is altered, I think I see satisfactory. Satisfactory is the name of the game for me with regards to the bottom 6 - we are going to gain ground on other teams with our top 6. My main focus is on not actively giving any of that back when the other 6 are on. 

Lazar, Sheahan. I'd like to see both replaced, but tbh, my thought is - if 2 components of a line are solid, it can potentially get away with a 3rd lesser player (provided it's not a key line). Therefore, theoretically even getting ONE of Lazar and Sheahan replaced should bring that line to 2/3 after including Skinner, saving the line. 

Imagine if Cozens hypothetically shows himself to be 3C ready and worthy:

Skinner - Cozens - Sheahan 

... I think would work. Again, this is stipulating the hypothetical that Cozens is adequately ready. That could honestly be a solid LW - C scoring combo, w/ Sheahan digging pucks out ala Girgensons. Favourable matchups. If the line is Skinner - Lazar - Sheahan, well, you've just lost Skinner too along with Cozens. 

I’m Ok with Eakin centering a third line with a couple of young skilled wingers.  Not ideal but not awful either.

I’m also ok with Lazar or Eakin between Rieder and KO. 

What I’m not ok with is Skinner buried with Eakin and KO or Sheahan or Lazar on a line.  Skinner is the 2nd or 3rd best goal scorer on the team after Jack and Hall.  When paired properly he can out score anyone on the team.  Putting him in a place to fail makes no sense.  
 

[JohnC]

I didn't watch the scrimmage so I can't specifically comment about it . But I'm bothered by the same observation by a few viewers that it looked like Skinner's play reflected a disinterest and that he seems lost. The thing that I am troubled about the Skinner saga is that one thing that is noticeable about his game even when not scoring is his skating talents. It just seems that he is struggling with his game and role and is going through the motions.  For those who watched the scrimmage is this a fair concern? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I didn't watch the scrimmage so I can't specifically comment about it . But I'm bothered by the same observation by a few viewers that it looked like Skinner's play reflected a disinterest and that he seems lost. The thing that I am troubled about the Skinner saga is that one thing that is noticeable about his game even when not scoring is his skating talents. It just seems that he is struggling with his game and role and is going through the motions.  For those who watched the scrimmage is this a fair concern? 

I don’t how he wouldn’t feel that way.  RK does nothing to help him.  Last season he refused to break up his pair of Jack and Sam to get Skinner some talent to play with and now has demoted him to play with Cody Eakin.  I’d be pissed also.  We invest $9 a season in this guy.  We need to put him in a place to succeed.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don’t how he wouldn’t feel that way.  RK does nothing to help him.  Last season he refused to break up his pair of Jack and Sam to get Skinner some talent to play with and now has demoted him to play with Cody Eakin.  I’d be pissed also.  We invest $9 a season in this guy.  We need to put him in a place to succeed.

I appreciate your observations and comments. You and I are in accord that he should be on a second line with Staal and Rheinhart. Where I veer from your view is that even if the coach is not putting him in an elevated role that we both believe not only best serves the player but also serves the team the appropriate response for the demotion is to play with more effort and determination that would force a higher role. 

My fear, and I think you have the same sensation, is that Skinner is simply not a Krueger type of player. Krueger seems to favor players who have a tighter and more responsible two way style of play. That more rigid and disciplined style of play does not permeate his game. If this observation is true I just wish Krueger would be more flexible and make a greater effort to put Skinner in a better position to succeed. In my opinion putting him on a lower line doesn't do that. 

[Brawndo]

 

[Brawndo]

 

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Anybody else find it interesting that there's been am odd # of D in that top session since Borgen bumped up?  Figured they keep it even to not be mixing & matching pairings.

Total of 28 in the 1st session; 1 shy of the limit for when camp breaks.  Not sure if Girgensons has officially been moved to IR yet.

[Brawndo]

 

[LTS]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don’t how he wouldn’t feel that way.  RK does nothing to help him.  Last season he refused to break up his pair of Jack and Sam to get Skinner some talent to play with and now has demoted him to play with Cody Eakin.  I’d be pissed also.  We invest $9 a season in this guy.  We need to put him in a place to succeed.

Conversely, Skinner is getting paid $9M to play like he is an NHL player and not a whiny brat.  Skinner does nothing to help himself. When he hasn't gotten his way he lets his play drop off. if he were truly offended by the demotion why wouldn't he be out there proving everyone wrong?

You want to blame the organization, and you can for the contract.  That GM is gone now.  The level of play by the player is squarely on the player themselves and no one else.

Skinner needs to step it up.  Bottom line.  or perhaps he'll be upset enough to waive his NMC and someone will take him.

[GASabresIUFAN]

It looks like the Sabres plus Taxi Squad.  
 

13 f, 7d and 2 G make the Sabres

plus 3 forwards, 2 D and 1g on the taxi squad thus the 28 players you see

If I had to break this down the taxi squad is JoJo in net, Borgen and Bryson on defense and Asplund, Quinn and Mittelstadt at forward. Lazar is the 13th forward and Irwin the 7th D.

[freester]

RK must hate Skinner and his game and is hoping he will ask to be traded. He is setting him up to fail. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LTS said:

Conversely, Skinner is getting paid $9M to play like he is an NHL player and not a whiny brat.  Skinner does nothing to help himself. When he hasn't gotten his way he lets his play drop off. if he were truly offended by the demotion why wouldn't he be out there proving everyone wrong?

You want to blame the organization, and you can for the contract.  That GM is gone now.  The level of play by the player is squarely on the player themselves and no one else.

Skinner needs to step it up.  Bottom line.  or perhaps he'll be upset enough to waive his NMC and someone will take him.

Yes and no.  Yes Skinner needs to make the best out of his situation but the organization also needs to put him in the best possible situation.  He is an incredible asset when playing well, why work to diminish that asset?

[LTS]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes and no.  Yes Skinner needs to make the best out of his situation but the organization also needs to put him in the best possible situation.  He is an incredible asset when playing well, why work to diminish that asset?

Is he playing well?  What is he showing out there?  What message do you send to the team if you promote a talented but selfish player to a top line and demote someone from that line who is working hard?

I would bet good money that if Jack thought Skinner should be up on a higher line, or Staal, or Hall they would say something to Krueger.  Right now I don't think anyone is saying anything and Skinner isn't doing anything to make him promotion worthy.

There's an assumption that moving Skinner up will result in more offense, but perhaps that is not the case.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

Conversely, Skinner is getting paid $9M to play like he is an NHL player and not a whiny brat.  Skinner does nothing to help himself. When he hasn't gotten his way he lets his play drop off. if he were truly offended by the demotion why wouldn't he be out there proving everyone wrong?

You want to blame the organization, and you can for the contract.  That GM is gone now.  The level of play by the player is squarely on the player themselves and no one else.

Skinner needs to step it up.  Bottom line.  or perhaps he'll be upset enough to waive his NMC and someone will take him.

If he were to waive the NMC, pretty sure Adams would be in the running for Executive of the Year regardless of what, if anything, came back.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Well here is the good news.  If I’m right about the initial lineup, RK is going to keep his word and play Cozens at RW to start the season.

The lineup will look something like this

Hall Eichel Thompson

Olofsson Staal Reinhart

Skinner Eakin Cozens

Rieder Lazar/Sheahan KO

If Cozens proves ready this could work, but that means Cozens becomes the catalyst for that line.

As to Skinner, this might simply be a case of having 3 top 6 LW and only 2 slots.  Sounds to me like neither Skinner or Olofsson were comfortable at RW and Olofsson definitely showed chemistry with Staal, thus he got the 2LW role.  This promoted Thompson to 1RW since Staal/Reinhart are now a pair.   

This isn’t the worst situation.  Hall has an injury history and with this compressed schedule and COVID, we are going to need all this depth.  Camp chemistry is great, but in season chemistry is better.  

Mid season prediction.  Mitts takes the 3C job from Eakin.  Eakin then becomes the 4C.  Rieder plays his way to the bench and either Sheahan or Lazar become the 4th LW.

Edited January 10, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Brawndo]

 

[JohnC]

46 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If he were to waive the NMC, pretty sure Adams would be in the running for Executive of the Year regardless of what, if anything, came back.

If Skinner were to waive his NMC who would be interested in him with his long term baggage contract? That contract consideration becomes even more pronounced in this Covid induced decline in revenue that is going to last beyond this season. 

I disagree with how Krueger is handling Skinner. However, as others have pointedly stated the onus for the apparent lack of effort is on the player. The player can't control how the coach uses him, but certainly he is in control how he plays. When down in the ranks play harder and work yourself up the ranks. Bootstraps 101!

[Brawndo]

 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Skinner were to waive his NMC who would be interested in him with his long term baggage contract? That contract consideration becomes even more pronounced in this Covid induced decline in revenue that is going to last beyond this season. 

I disagree with how Krueger is handling Skinner. However, as others have pointedly stated the onus for the apparent lack of effort is on the player. The player can't control how the coach uses him, but certainly he is in control how he plays. When down in the ranks play harder and work yourself up the ranks. Bootstraps 101!

No idea.  But would Adams NOT be in the running for Exec of the Year should he address what looks to be arguably Botterill's 2nd biggest mistake?

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, Weave said:

After one scrimmage and minimal practice time with the team (but he's been playing at a higher intensity level than everyone else for weeks now) it sure looked like Mitts was more ready than Cozens.  I wasn't impressed at all with Mitts work on the O zone.  I was impressed with the improvement in his overall positional play.  How's your confidence level if it goes Skinner - Mitts- Sheahan, bucause I think that's more likely at this moment.

 

This looks like it may be a good call, based on the lines below. 

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Poor Skinner - I don't see that line working unless Mitts has taken a massive jump. Last year I think we can agree that line would be a tire fire. If it's supposed to be a 3rd scoring line this year, Mitts will have to be ready for a role I don't think he is currently. But I'd have to see him play in real games. I don't think Casey's and Jeff's games mesh particularly well. Skinner needs someone who is going to push the play into the opponent's zone, who's strong defensively. 

If it ends up as the lines are laid out, and it's Skinner - Sheahan - Okposo, I think the B6 is in massive trouble - would anyone be confident in that set up? Really I think we need to get Skinner with Cozens if Skinner isn't going to be in the top 6. Give those 2 something to play with. 

Sheahan and Okposo would neuter Skinner, and Rieder (and potentially Eakin, especially if that's supposed to be a checking line) Cozens. Play Eakin with Skinner and Cozens in a more offensive role, and play Rieder with Sheahan and KO and go for a checking line that plays many fewer mins than last year. 

If Krueger gives Skinner Lazar, or Sheahan for a centre, with no offensive talent on the other wing, he is letting a vendetta getting in the way of what's best for the team and setting them up for failure. 

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

Very disheartening. I thought Ruotsalainen would at minimum be on the taxi squad, he represents some of that potential unlockable improvement. Just because VO performed well in Rochester doesn't mean he necessarily needed it, nor does Ruotsalainen necessarily need AHL just because another player may have. I feel like, every year, competition is a buzz word more than an actual thing - it's *always* the vets that are given the spots. The vets with the lowest possible ceiling. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Actually, I just saw he corrected that and said Sheahan was at 4RW. 

So, I guess the set-up is:

Hall - Eichel - Thompson

Olofsson - Staal - Reinhart

Rieder - Eakin - Cozens

Skinner - Lazar - Okposo

 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This looks like it may be a good call, based on the lines below. 

Poor Skinner - I don't see that line working unless Mitts has taken a massive jump. Last year I think we can agree that line would be a tire fire. If it's supposed to be a 3rd scoring line this year, Mitts will have to be ready for a role I don't think he is currently. But I'd have to see him play in real games. I don't think Casey's and Jeff's games mesh particularly well. Skinner needs someone who is going to push the play into the opponent's zone, who's strong defensively. 

If it ends up as the lines are laid out, and it's Skinner - Sheahan - Okposo, I think the B6 is in massive trouble - would anyone be confident in that set up? Really I think we need to get Skinner with Cozens if Skinner isn't going to be in the top 6. Give those 2 something to play with. 

Sheahan and Okposo would neuter Skinner, and Rieder (and potentially Eakin, especially if that's supposed to be a checking line) Cozens. Play Eakin with Skinner and Cozens in a more offensive role, and play Rieder with Sheahan and KO and go for a checking line that plays many fewer mins than last year. 

If Krueger gives Skinner Lazar, or Sheahan for a centre, with no offensive talent on the other wing, he is letting a vendetta getting in the way of what's best for the team and setting them up for failure. 

Very disheartening. I thought Ruotsalainen would at minimum be on the taxi squad, he represents some of that potential unlockable improvement. Just because VO performed well in Rochester doesn't mean he necessarily needed it, nor does Ruotsalainen necessarily need AHL just because another player may have. I feel like, every year, competition is a buzz word more than an actual thing - it's *always* the vets that are given the spots. The vets with the lowest possible ceiling. 

Pretty sure Okposo will be w/ Eakin, not the 4th line.

Expecting that Reider is pencilled in at that line's LW but could see Thompson there as well.  Yeah, it seems that Skinner is in the dog house, so that 4th LW looks like him right now, but it could be any of him, Thompson, Reider, or Mittelstadt.  The 4C is most likely Lazar, but could be any of him, Mittelstadt, Cozens, or Sheahan.

 

As for Ruitsalainen, there's still 1 more opening in the 29, he has a chance to grab it.