Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s a diminished Eakin thing, it’s a lack of linemates thing, and an ice time thing.  It’s a combination of dumb.  We saw last year what Skinner looks like without proper linemates. Do you really want to see that again. I’d rather see him try Cozens centering Skinner.  

I certainly don’t want to see the same Skinner as last year.

On the other hand, If Skinner can score 37 with Rask, why not with Eakin? What if Cozens is the RW?

I’m not going to get too upset about any line until we’ve lost two of three and that line did squat.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I certainly don’t want to see the same Skinner as last year.

On the other hand, If Skinner can score 37 with Rask, why not with Eakin? What if Cozens is the RW?

I’m not going to get too upset about any line until we’ve lost two of three and that line did squat.

We have been down this road before.  RK screwed Skinner last year by refusing to move Reinhart to that line try to get him going.  We gave RK a pass last year because of the lack of adequate centers.  That excuse is gone, yet his line combos in camp have been dreadful.  

We have to be realistic.  We aren’t getting MVP Hall, we aren’t getting 40 pt Eakin.  Our best hope is that can rebound and player closer to that level, but in Eakin’s case he has morphed into a checking line center and that is how he should be utilized.  RK needs to do a better job of finding the best combos to maximize his keys scorers and dumping Skinner with a diminished Eakin is wrong.  

However, we may be seeing something else.  We all assumed that one of Skinner or Olofsson could move to RW to balance the top six.  RK maybe finding out that playing them there doesn’t work.  So now he has 3 top 6 LW and only 1 top RW.  Therefore he is trying Thompson as a top 6 RW to see if that works.  However that doesn’t change the ultimate problem that Eichel and Staal are top 6 centers, but Eakin, Lazar and Sheahan are 4th line centers.  

He needs to try something else.  You mentioned a Skinner Eakin Cozens line.  I guess it’s worth a try.  We may have no choice because of the LW situation and the lack of proven RW’s. it’s asking a lot of a 19year old rookie with no pro experience to elevate Skinner to previous levels.

 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Skinner will play on any line he is assigned to. But that begs the question of which line will he be most effective i.e. score goals. As a third liner regardless how it is constituted his production potential relative to his contract is severely devalued. 

Yeah, I’m sure he will play wherever the coach puts him.  My question was, can he play WELL on a 3rd line?

I disagree with the bolded.  The answer to that question is without doubt, next to Jack.  The more appropriate question is, where can Skinner be played to make the TEAM most effective?  Not just how to maximize Skinner’s individual goal total.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Curt

[Curt]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because RK has no idea how to put together lines.  Cody Eakin has zero ability to help get Skinner back to being a 40 goal winger.  

Yeah, probably only Jack can get Skinner back to being a 40 goal winger, but is the objective of the season to get Skinner 40 goals?  No, the objective is to be as good of a team as possible.

If Skinner can score over 20 goals on a 3rd line, while the top 2 lines are also doing very well, then the Sabres are most likely in great shape.

Don’t take this as a guarantee that they can create a 3rd line that can do that, it’s not.  I haven’t even really watched Eakin play.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s a diminished Eakin thing, it’s a lack of linemates thing, and an ice time thing.  It’s a combination of dumb.  We saw last year what Skinner looks like without proper linemates. Do you really want to see that again. I’d rather see him try Cozens centering Skinner.  

We saw Skinner last year after he got his big pay day. Incentive now isn’t what it was before. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We have been down this road before.  RK screwed Skinner last year by refusing to move Reinhart to that line try to get him going.  We gave RK a pass last year because of the lack of adequate centers.  That excuse is gone, yet his line combos in camp have been dreadful.  

We have to be realistic.  We aren’t getting MVP Hall, we aren’t getting 40 pt Eakin.  Our best hope is that can rebound and player closer to that level, but in Eakin’s case he has morphed into a checking line center and that is how he should be utilized.  RK needs to do a better job of finding the best combos to maximize his keys scorers and dumping Skinner with a diminished Eakin is wrong.  

However, we may be seeing something else.  We all assumed that one of Skinner or Olofsson could move to RW to balance the top six.  RK maybe finding out that playing them there doesn’t work.  So now he has 3 top 6 LW and only 1 top RW.  Therefore he is trying Thompson as a top 6 RW to see if that works.  However that doesn’t change the ultimate problem that Eichel and Staal are top 6 centers, but Eakin, Lazar and Sheahan are 4th line centers.  

He needs to try something else.  You mentioned a Skinner Eakin Cozens line.  I guess it’s worth a try.  We may have no choice because of the LW situation and the lack of proven RW’s. it’s asking a lot of a 19year old rookie with no pro experience to elevate Skinner to previous levels.

 

Just curious.  How have you come about forming your very assured and precise evaluation of exactly what roles Eakin can and can not fill?

15 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

We saw Skinner last year after he got his big pay day. Incentive now isn’t what it was before. 

You watched him and you thought he wasn’t putting in effort?  I didn’t really feel that way.

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

We saw Skinner last year after he got his big pay day. Incentive now isn’t what it was before. 

That seems harsh IMHO.

Skinner played through a knee injury at the end of Housley's last year & pretty sure he retreated it early last year before actually going out w/ a leg injury later in the year.  He started well last year, but in very early November something happened that sent him into the dumper pretty much the rest of the year.  If his legs aren't right, he's in trouble as he's pretty small & his skating is the bulk of his game.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do this year as he should be healthy.  (Just because my preference is he not play with Eichel doesn't mean he's not a good player & a valuable piece.)  Still expect his best deployment is on a line with Staal & Reinhart, but putting him on a 3rd line would be a way to generate offense from the 3rd line like GA is screaming for.  He'd face weaker competition that way which should increase his "do it all by himself" offense but reducing his rebound goals.  Overall, he's probably only potting 20-25 on the 3rd line and he'd likely get 30 on the 2nd line, but suppose it can't hurt to just see if there's something that can click there.  (And still expect him on the 2nd line come Thursday.)

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Curt said:

Yeah, I’m sure he will play wherever the coach puts him.  My question was, can he play WELL on a 3rd line?

I disagree with the bolded.  The answer to that question is without doubt, next to Jack.  The more appropriate question is, where can Skinner be played to make the TEAM most effective?  Not just how to maximize Skinner’s individual goal total.

The line that will benefit him and the team the most is the second line. I agree with you that from an individual statistical standpoint he will benefit the most playing on the Jack line. Most people would agree with that judgment. But I'm not making my judgment on Skinner in a vacuum. Hall, a not so long ago MVP, was added to the roster. So the next obvious question is how do you apportion the players to maximize their talents. Krueger deciding to put Hall on the first line is fine by me. It makes sense. But not putting Skinner on the second line with Staal and Reinhart doesn't seem to me to either benefit this highly cost player nor maximize his biggest asset which is scoring goals.  

Many people make the reasonable argument that it is better to disperse the talent along all the lines (mostly top three lines) to get better balanced scoring. I disagree with that concept. I'm more inclined to put your top six players on the top two lines with the caveat that there has to be a consideration of the pieces fitting well. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by JohnC

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The line that will benefit him and the team the most is the second line. I agree with you that from an individual statistical standpoint he will benefit the most playing on the Jack line. Most people would agree with that judgment. But I'm not making my judgment on Skinner in a vacuum. Hall, a not so long ago MVP, was added to the roster. So the next obvious question is how do you apportion the players to maximize their talents. Krueger deciding to put Hall on the first line is fine by me. It makes sense. But not putting Skinner on the second line with Staal and Reinhart doesn't seem to me to either benefit this highly cost player nor maximize is biggest asset which is scoring goals.  

Many people make the reasonable argument that it is better to disperse the talent along all the lines (mostly top three lines) to get better balanced scoring. I disagree with that concept. I'm more inclined to put your top six players on the top two lines with the caveat that there has to be a consideration of the pieces fitting well. 

It’s fine to disagree with Ralph’s lines.  Just wanted make the point that it’s not about maximizing Skinner’s goal total, and it’s not about Skinner’s salary either.  It’s about maximizing the team as a whole.

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Just curious.  How have you come about forming your very assured and precise evaluation of exactly what roles Eakin can and can not fill?

You watched him and you thought he wasn’t putting in effort?  I didn’t really feel that way.

Something happened. Sure wasn’t the player he was when he scored 40 goals 

[Thorny]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So is Routsalanen.  Makes sense.  We need skill wingers in the organization and have a bunch of depth centers like Lazar, Sheahan and Eakin along with Cozens.

Our wing depth organizationally looks pretty darn solid now. We need to pray Cozens ends up at C, cause it's at C where we are still weakest at organizationally, I don't even think it's close. After Cozens it's long shots, if Ruotsalainen and Mittelstadt are wings. 

[dudacek]

I think Mitts played centre the whole game tonight.

Edited January 10, 2021 by dudacek

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think Mitts played centre the whole game tonight.

He did.

For all the talk of moving him to wing, they never seem to actually pull the trigger on sliding him over there.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He did.

For all the talk of moving him to wing, they never seem to actually pull the trigger on sliding him over there.

Except in practice. 

[Taro T]

Training camp. Shraining camp.  Either way, Eichel sure don't need jt. 

Just now, Thorny said:

Except in practice. 

As Iverson said, you're talkin' 'bout practice. 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Training camp. Shraining camp.  Either way, Eichel sure don't need jt. 

As Iverson said, you're talkin' 'bout practice. 

A great quote. 

I'd be thrilled if Mittelstadt ended up a 3rd scoring line C - to this point I haven't seen the speed/skating to think he can keep up in the middle of the ice. To that point I still see him ending up on the wing, but with continued physical improvement combined with adapting to a quicker decision making process, C is certainly a possibility. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I haven’t yet watched the scrimmage.  I’ve been watching football all day with my family.  Can’t wait to see how Mitts does at center. Hopefully Sabres.com will post a replay.

Edited January 10, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Brawndo]

 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

So, JSD gets company 1 day later than expected.

Wonder if they'll let fans in if they agree to mask up & stay at least 20' from everybody?  (Which shouldn't be hard to do as there can't be more than 20 people that want to watch. 😉 )

[Thorny]

 

 

[Thorny]

Hall - Eichel - Olofsson/Thompson

Skinner/Oloffson - Staal - Reinhart

Thompson/Skinner - LAZAR - SHEAHAN

Rieder - Eakin - Okposo

..the bolded looms large for me. I have some reservations about Eakin and that checking line, certainly, but that third scoring line is the pendulum shifter right now in the forward line-up. Whether we are able to enjoy all the fruit from the labors of the top 6, or if some of that is mitigated by them having to carry around a poor bottom 6 probably comes down to the two bolded positions. Especially b/c, if Skinner really is on the 3rd line, he's going to need help. 

I see a 12 man unit with every spot adequately filled (this has been very uncommon for us over the course of the last decade) except for 2 third line spots populated 2 replacement level players. 

Others have mentioned it - gonna need a solid something from 2 of Cozens, Ruotsalainen and Mittelstadt, and hopefully they are ready for those roles in a few days. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Hall - Eichel - Olofsson/Thompson

Skinner/Oloffson - Staal - Reinhart

Thompson/Skinner - LAZAR - SHEAHAN

Rieder - Eakin - Okposo

..the bolded looms large for me. I have some reservations about Eakin and that checking line, certainly, but that third scoring line is the pendulum shifter right now in the forward line-up. Whether we are able to enjoy all the fruit from the labors of the top 6, or if some of that is mitigated by them having to carry around a poor bottom 6 probably comes the two bolded positions. Especially b/c, if Skinner really is on the 3rd line, he's going to need help. 

I see a 12 man unit with every spot adequately filled (this has been very uncommon for us over the course of the last decade) except for 2 third line spots populated 2 replacement level players. 

Others have mentioned it - gonna need a solid something from 2 of Cozens, Ruotsalainen and Mittelstadt, and hopefully they are ready for those roles in a few days. 

As I said before, we cannot start the season with all 5 of Rieder, Eakin, Lazar, Sheahan and KO in the lineup.  

[Brawndo]

Not sure it holds in the regular season especially with Risto on the other squad, but Dahlin and Montour played the most with Eichel’s Line. That would alleviate one of My Fears about Krueger. 

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Not sure it holds in the regular season especially with Risto on the other squad, but Dahlin and Montour played the most with Eichel’s Line. That would alleviate one of My Fears about Krueger. 

Pretty sure that was intentional, as was having Eichel shooting on Ullmark which resulted in Blue getting crushed.

PLEASE let AZ try to sneak the kid down to the taxi squad.

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As I said before, we cannot start the season with all 5 of Rieder, Eakin, Lazar, Sheahan and KO in the lineup.  

They MIGHT start the year w/ Sheahan in the lineup, but would be surprised if that is a full time situation.  Thompson will dress opening night.  Mittelstadt or Cozens might, but 1 (at minimum) will be there soon after if not right out of the gate.