Former Sabre Dominik Kahun Signs with Oilers 1 Year 975k

[Brawndo]

The Sabres offer to Kahun was higher than Thompson’s AAV.
 

In regards to Zemgus, given that Most of the other Deals were a year only I wonder if there was a higher power at work 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The Sabres offer to Kahun was higher than Thompson’s AAV.
 

In regards to Zemgus, given that Most of the other Deals were a year only I wonder if there was a higher power at work

The higher power was Krueger. The contract numbers and term indicated that the coach felt it was a priority to keep him. On the Zemgus road to a lucrative contract Krueger was driving the bus. 

[Brawndo]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The higher power was Krueger. The contract numbers and term indicated that the coach felt it was a priority to keep him. On the Zemgus road to a lucrative contract Krueger was driving the bus. 

Nope 

[JohnC]

Just now, Brawndo said:

Nope 

I appreciate your succinctness but why do you say that? 

[IKnowPhysics]

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/6796/mannheimer-erc-u16/2010-2011?tab=stats

[Curt]

58 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I appreciate your succinctness but why do you say that? 

Sometimes little birdies have a lot to say???

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

The Sabres offer to Kahun was higher than Thompson’s AAV.
 

In regards to Zemgus, given that Most of the other Deals were a year only I wonder if there was a higher power at work 

I could see Girgs being someone the Pegulas would like.  He always works his butt off, he married a localish young lady I believe, he never complains.

His contract is objectively an overpay and he hasn’t turned out to be as good as I once hoped, but I would be really happy to see him be a contributor on good Sabres teams.  To see Girgensons lift the Cup as a Sabre might bring me to tears.  He is easy to cheer for.

[Andrew Amerk]

50 minutes ago, Curt said:

I could see Girgs being someone the Pegulas would like.  He always works his butt off, he married a localish young lady I believe, he never complains.

His contract is objectively an overpay and he hasn’t turned out to be as good as I once hoped, but I would be really happy to see him be a contributor on good Sabres teams.  To see Girgensons lift the Cup as a Sabre might bring me to tears.  He is easy to cheer for.

And he was an All Star and has his own song. 

[bunomatic]

11 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

And he was an All Star and has his own song. 

And he is from Latvia so he’s likely a friend of Borat who’s sister is a good kisser.

[LGR4GM]

 

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Nope 

What is jesus? I mean Terry.

Edited November 3, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Curt]

19 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

And he was an All Star and has his own song. 

 

7 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

And he is from Latvia so he’s likely a friend of Borat who’s sister is a good kisser.

There are just so many reasons to pull for the Latvian Locomotive.  🚂

[PerreaultForever]

23 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Good thing we gave Thompson 1.4 per season, after all he has so outperformed Kahun in his career.

 

I think it safe to assume Kahun asked for more from us and only took this low deal from Edmonton to avoid being unemployed in this situation. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the general problem:

Our current bottom 6: Rieder, Okposo, Lazar, Eakin, Thompson, and Girgensons.   Besides KO, who is no longer a top 6 forward, which of these guys have proven they can play up in the lineup other then in a short term emergency basis?  None if you want to  be successful.  With this roster, unless someone like Cozens or Mitts steps up, we are in trouble if an injury strikes in the top 6.

Now what if KA had signed a Kahun or Galchenyuk.  Both have logged top 6 minutes, Galchenyuk more then Kahun.  Both can play all 3 forward slots.  Both are young enough to earn a long-term place here and both have higher upsides offensively then all KA's FA signing but Hall.  Both can play extended top 6 minutes in case of injury and not look out of place.

Also Eakin vs. Haula.  Both are 29.  Eakin's last 3 years, 27, 41 and 15 pts.  Haula's 55, 7 (in 15 games - injury) and 24 pts.  Haula unsigned while we gave Eakin 2.25.  Haula is also better in the faceoff circle, but Eakin is also good.  Haula has also produced more, while getting less Ozone starts for his career (although LV used him more in the Ozone when he had his breakout season).  Haula will likely sign for 1.5 or less.  I'd rather have Haula anyway and to get Haula cheaper then Eakin would have been even better.

There was also no reason to lock-up Thompson when he did.  He hasn't yet re-signed Mitts, and Thompson had no leverage.  

There was some urgency in re-signing Z, but I don't know why.  He is an easily replaced player for much less.  

The word here should have been patience.  If he read the Kahun situation correctly, then he should have understood guys with luggage or bottom 6 forwards were going to get squeezed.    

Again for what we spent of Reider, Eakin, Thompson and Girgensons, About 6.5 mill, we could have had Haula, Thompson (950K), Galchenyuk (or Kahun) and Z or someone similar for about $1 mill less and we'd have a better team.  Heck, we still could have signed Rieder for extra depth 

Edited November 3, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

I think they had a targeted list of players and that is who they acquired. Precisely why they targeted them is an interesting debate but Krueger clearly had input on that and Adams clearly had a plan. 

It is nice to argue about saving 2mil in the bottom six by switching this and this up then watching Botterill waste 4mil on wingers who are not centers and another 4mil on over the hill wingers who don't help the pk. 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the general problem:

Our current bottom 6: Rieder, Okposo, Lazar, Eakin, Thompson, and Girgensons.   Besides KO, who is no longer a top 6 forward, which of these guys have proven they can play up in the lineup other then in a short term emergency basis?  None if you want to  be successful.  With this roster, unless someone like Cozens or Mitts steps up, we are in trouble if an injury strikes in the top 6.

Now what if KA had signed a Kahun or Galchenyuk.  Both have logged top 6 minutes, Galchenyuk more then Kahun.  Both can play all 3 forward slots.  Both are young enough to earn a long-term place here and both have higher upsides offensively then all KA's FA signing but Hall.  Both can play extended top 6 minutes in case of injury and not look out of place.

Also Eakin vs. Haula.  Both are 29.  Eakin's last 3 years, 27, 41 and 15 pts.  Haula's 55, 7 (in 15 games - injury) and 24 pts.  Haula unsigned while we gave Eakin 2.25.  Haula is also better in the faceoff circle, but Eakin is also good.  Haula has also produced more, while getting less Ozone starts for his career (although LV used him more in the Ozone when he had his breakout season).  Haula will likely sign for 1.5 or less.  I'd rather have Haula anyway and to get Haula cheaper then Eakin would have been even better.

There was also no reason to lock-up Thompson when he did.  He hasn't yet re-signed Mitts, and Thompson had no leverage.  

There was some urgency in re-signing Z, but I don't know why.  He is an easily replaced player for much less.  

The word here should have been patience.  If he read the Kahun situation correctly, then he should have understood guys with luggage or bottom 6 forwards were going to get squeezed.    

Again for what we spent of Reider, Eakin, Thompson and Girgensons, About 6.5 mill, we could have had Haula, Thompson (950K), Galchenyuk (or Kahun) and Z or someone similar for about $1 mill less and we'd have a better team.  Heck, we still could have signed Rieder for extra depth 

As @LGR4GM pointed out in his post the Sabres had a list of players they targeted and they worked down that list. Your analysis gives the impression that you can just walk into a store and take whatever you want off the shelves at the price you want it for.  Filling the roster in the frenzy of the opening of free agency isn't as neat and tidy as you make it out to be. You made a list of players that we could have had without noting that those players on your list don't necessarily correspond to the players on the Sabres' list. 

The one player that you seem to have an issue with is Thompson, especially for the contract he signed for. It seems to me that the staff has made an evaluation on him projecting where he will be as a player in the near future. The organization is making a judgment that this young player is now more physically ready and will play up to and hopefully beyond the value of his contract. 

As I said in a prior post if you take a more overview perspective in judging what has been done this offseason instead of focusing too much on each individual and "what if" transactions you would be more positive about the body of work. There is a saying: Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. 

[Zamboni]

There is also something to be said for some fans looking at most things an organization does as a negative and a bad decision. 

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Our current bottom 6: Rieder, Okposo, Lazar, Eakin, Thompson, and Girgensons.   Besides KO, who is no longer a top 6 forward, which of these guys have proven they can play up in the lineup other then in a short term emergency basis? 

Doesn't this question roughly translate to "how many top six players do we have in our bottom six?"

We don't have any of those. Other than Tampa, how many teams do?

But we do have options. I suspect that at least a couple of these guys would up their numbers if they were moved up up to play with the big boys

• Eakin: five* seasons of 35 points, including 41 two years ago
• Reider: 13/14/16/12 (goal totals 2015-18)
• Okposo: 19/15/14/14* (goal totals over 4 years as a Sabre)

* includes prorating for lockout, pandemic

• Cozens: 7th overall pick, 38/47/85 in 51 junior games
• Mittelstadt 8th overall pick, finished rookie season in Rochester with 18 points in final 22 games, had a 12-goal season in the NHL
• Thompson 26th overall pick, 14/8/23 in 27 AHL games
• Ruotsalainen 24/34/58 points in 56 Liiga games

Is that really behind what most teams have?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Doesn't this question roughly translate to "how many top six players do we have in our bottom six?"

We don't have any of those. Other than Tampa, how many teams do?

But we do have options. I suspect that at least a couple of these guys would up their numbers if they were moved up up to play with the big boys

• Eakin: five* seasons of 35 points, including 41 two years ago
• Reider: 13/14/16/12 (goal totals 2015-18)
• Okposo: 19/15/14/14* (goal totals over 4 years as a Sabre)

* includes prorating for lockout, pandemic

• Cozens: 7th overall pick, 38/47/85 in 51 junior games
• Mittelstadt 8th overall pick, finished rookie season in Rochester with 18 points in final 22 games, had a 12-goal season in the NHL
• Thompson 26th overall pick, 14/8/23 in 27 AHL games
• Ruotsalainen 24/34/58 points in 56 Liiga games

Is that really behind what most teams have?

But that is my point.  We had the opportunity this off-season to build closer to TB depth for very little cost and KA was so glued to his list that he really didn’t see the forest through the trees.  Don't get me wrong, I like what he did in general, but by not being patient and open to variations from his list, he ended up missing a great opportunity.  

Look guys could step up be it rebound or kids maturing it would have been nice to have some insurance.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But that is my point.  We had the opportunity this off-season to build closer to TB depth for very little cost and KA was so glued to his list that he really didn’t see the forest through the trees.  Don't get me wrong, I like what he did in general, but by not being patient and open to variations from his list, he ended up missing a great opportunity.  

Look guys could step up be it rebound or kids maturing it would have been nice to have some insurance.

As compared to Botterill who would have never signed Hall, would be telling us how Johansson is going to rebound. Would have paid Kahun who knows what. And then gone out and signed Simmonds and whatever other 4th line veteran he thought might rebound even with all the analytics telling us nope. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

As compared to Botterill who would have never signed Hall, would be telling us how Johansson is going to rebound. Would have paid Kahun who knows what. And then gone out and signed Simmonds and whatever other 4th line veteran he thought might rebound even with all the analytics telling us nope. 

One of the things I’ve learned in my business career is that past performance is not predictive of future results.  Every situation is different and unique.  We have no idea if Jbot would have signed Hall.  That said, he likely would have made the Staal trade and likely would have let Larsson and Girgensons walk.  The Eakin and Rieder signings were very Jbot-ish. But no idea for sure.  It’s just speculation.  

Frankly its not even relevant anymore.  Jbot is gone and KA is here.  Still no upgrade in goal or re-balancing of the D.

[Weave]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But that is my point.  We had the opportunity this off-season to build closer to TB depth for very little cost and KA was so glued to his list that he really didn’t see the forest through the trees.  Don't get me wrong, I like what he did in general, but by not being patient and open to variations from his list, he ended up missing a great opportunity.  

Look guys could step up be it rebound or kids maturing it would have been nice to have some insurance.

It appears that the guys they signed were specifically targeted.  Your list might make a better fantasy roster than KAs list, but I’m betting he’s put alot more effort into the role and style and gameplan of that list than you did with yours.   The team roster appears to have a lot of progress in the last month.  Lets see if KA knows how to assemble a team before nitpicking.

[GASabresIUFAN]

35 minutes ago, Weave said:

It appears that the guys they signed were specifically targeted.  Your list might make a better fantasy roster than KAs list, but I’m betting he’s put alot more effort into the role and style and gameplan of that list than you did with yours.   The team roster appears to have a lot of progress in the last month.  Lets see if KA knows how to assemble a team before nitpicking.

I think that is fair.  KA was clearly working toward a bottom 6 with a certain style of play that adhered to RK’s vision.  However with goal scoring our team’s biggest issue, I’m worried that the forward group as currently constituted, with the huge talent gap between the 2nd and 3rd line, lacks the necessary offensive punch to help solve that problem and fil in gaps created by injury unless Cozens or Mitts make the team.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One of the things I’ve learned in my business career is that past performance is not predictive of future results.  Every situation is different and unique.  We have no idea if Jbot would have signed Hall.  That said, he likely would have made the Staal trade and likely would have let Larsson and Girgensons walk.  The Eakin and Rieder signings were very Jbot-ish. But no idea for sure.  It’s just speculation.  

Frankly its not even relevant anymore.  Jbot is gone and KA is here.  Still no upgrade in goal or re-balancing of the D.

I highly doubt Botts does the Staal trade. Part of his targeting was KA’s personal connection with Staal.

[Thorny]

21 hours ago, I-90 W said:

I'll take it. Nice to hear for once. 

21 hours ago, Curt said:

I think that anyone who thinks Kahun would have signed a similar deal with Buffalo is mistaken.

This is the contract that he decided to take after weeks of waiting for anyone to make him a better offer that never came.

After taking a hard stance with the Sabres, and having them call his bluff, Kahun was unlikely to come back asking for a lesser offer.

With that said, I actually liked him and was hopeful that he could be a solid middle 6 contributor.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he does really well in Edmonton.

Yup, that's what I said too

[Thorny]

19 hours ago, JohnC said:

The higher power was Krueger. The contract numbers and term indicated that the coach felt it was a priority to keep him. On the Zemgus road to a lucrative contract Krueger was driving the bus. 

This still would not necessitate an overpay. 

The Girgs situation and the arguments around it are honestly so funny cause I don't think the overpay will hurt us. But it's basically like, Girgs - "I've done a lot for this team and I've been here a long time, I'll take no less than 1.6 million per" KA/Terry/Ralph - "I know that's a lot for his role, especially in this climate, but we can't afford to lose this guy. Just give him 2.2 to be sure and be done with it"

Girgs - "Done deal". 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Thorny