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dudacek

Tage Thompson: what’s his future?

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1 hour ago, Ogelthorpe said:

If cozens is on team this year it will be mismanagement of another 1st round pick

46 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Actually it isn't. Going back to juniors is not going to push Cozens further. I wish he could go to the AHL but sadly the NHL has one of the dumbest agreements I have ever seen.

Ideally Cozens should be in the AHL next year, but that isn't an option.  So assuming he isn't ready for a 3rd line NHL center role, which almost no 19 year old is, its 1) have him overachieve in WHL and try to set some single season records 2) rush him into the NHL and potentially botch another young players development the same way they've done to Middlestat, TT, and Risto.   I pick #1 - unless JBotts makes a move to grab an established 2C.  Otherwise there will eventually be a push to play Cozens on line 2, and that isn't good for him or the Sabres.

22 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If we are batting .500 with Tage and Casey M. turning into top six forwards, I'll be happy. 

Agreed.  I'm still curious to see what their next contracts look like.  That should be the first true indication of the Sabres front office expectations for them going forward.  I expect them both to be low dollar "prove-it" contracts that look similar to each other.

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Actually it isn't. Going back to juniors is not going to push Cozens further. I wish he could go to the AHL but sadly the NHL has one of the dumbest agreements I have ever seen.

2018 7 Quinn Hughes 56 points

2017 5 Elias Petterson 66 points

2016 6 Matt Tkachuk 49 points

2016 7 Clayton Keller 65 points

2015 4 Mitch Marner 61 points

2015 7 Ivan Provorov 30 points

2015 8 Zach Werenski 47 points

2015 10 Mikko Rantanen 38 points

2014 9 Nikolai Ehlers 38 points


For god sake, keep Dylan out of the NHL in his D2 year, have you seen what can happen?

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50 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Ideally Cozens should be in the AHL next year, but that isn't an option.  So assuming he isn't ready for a 3rd line NHL center role, which almost no 19 year old is, its 1) have him overachieve in WHL and try to set some single season records 2) rush him into the NHL and potentially botch another young players development the same way they've done to Middlestat, TT, and Risto.   I pick #1 - unless JBotts makes a move to grab an established 2C.  Otherwise there will eventually be a push to play Cozens on line 2, and that isn't good for him or the Sabres.

Agreed.  I'm still curious to see what their next contracts look like.  That should be the first true indication of the Sabres front office expectations for them going forward.  I expect them both to be low dollar "prove-it" contracts that look similar to each other.

Can he play in Europe as a 3rd option? He would be playing against men and possibly higher quality opponents than WHL.

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2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Why?

Grigorenko: should have been kept in juniors

Risto: should have been kept in Rochester 

Nylander: should have been kept in juniors

Middlestadt: should have been told to stay in college.

Through multiple regimes sabres have shown they dont know how to handle young players

 

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3 hours ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Grigorenko: should have been kept in juniors

Risto: should have been kept in Rochester 

Nylander: should have been kept in juniors

Middlestadt: should have been told to stay in college.

Through multiple regimes sabres have shown they dont know how to handle young players

 

What do any of these players and previous regimes have to do with Dylan Cozens?

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10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What do any of these players and previous regimes have to do with Dylan Cozens?

Pretty simple really, Sabres have no clue

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5 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Pretty simple really, Sabres have no clue

So keep the kids away from the stink until the organization is purged (for the third time in six years) and/or Pegula sells the team?

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Cozens gets nine games to show he's up for it (now, will he be a center or a winger to start?) And if he's not ready for the speed, then yes, he gets to ride the WHL buses again next season like Reinhart's first season (and Reinhart had a solid full rookie season the next year mostly on ROR's wing). The main issue is if we have players in place to allow Cozens to play to his capability in the NHL season (2C being the most critical missing piece). If there's no buffer and he's the default 2C or 3C... then yes, everyone suffers: Cozens, franchise, and fans.

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7 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Can he play in Europe as a 3rd option? He would be playing against men and possibly higher quality opponents than WHL.

I don't think he can as a junior player. I checked the LIGA and SHL and there is only one Canadian teenager between both leagues.  

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2 hours ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

I don't think he can as a junior player. I checked the LIGA and SHL and there is only one Canadian teenager between both leagues.  

Matthews went and played in Switzerland in his pre-draft year. He came out of Team USA though.

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15 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Can he play in Europe as a 3rd option? He would be playing against men and possibly higher quality opponents than WHL.

He should be able to.  I see reason why not.  There is the issue of sending a 19 yr old halfway around the world to a country where they don’t even understand the language, which is probably why no one does it.  Other than that, seems like a good option.

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11 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Cozens gets nine games to show he's up for it (now, will he be a center or a winger to start?) And if he's not ready for the speed, then yes, he gets to ride the WHL buses again next season like Reinhart's first season (and Reinhart had a solid full rookie season the next year mostly on ROR's wing). The main issue is if we have players in place to allow Cozens to play to his capability in the NHL season (2C being the most critical missing piece). If there's no buffer and he's the default 2C or 3C... then yes, everyone suffers: Cozens, franchise, and fans.

Reinhart went back in draft +1. Cozens has already done that. He's 3rd in the whl I think in scoring. He dominated almost every game. There's no point sending him back. There's no challenge there. 

18 hours ago, dudacek said:

2018 7 Quinn Hughes 56 points

2017 5 Elias Petterson 66 points

2016 6 Matt Tkachuk 49 points

2016 7 Clayton Keller 65 points

2015 4 Mitch Marner 61 points

2015 7 Ivan Provorov 30 points

2015 8 Zach Werenski 47 points

2015 10 Mikko Rantanen 38 points

2014 9 Nikolai Ehlers 38 points


For god sake, keep Dylan out of the NHL in his D2 year, have you seen what can happen?

What is this list of? Is this their rookie years? Can I get context?

Edit: oh I see what you did. 

Edited by LGR4GM

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3 hours ago, Curt said:

He should be able to.  I see reason why not.  There is the issue of sending a 19 yr old halfway around the world to a country where they don’t even understand the language, which is probably why no one does it.  Other than that, seems like a good option.

There may be IIHF rules prohibiting that sort of thing.  The rules for European juniors coming to the CHL are very specific.  I expect there are very specific rules Going the other way too.

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23 hours ago, inkman said:

You want to see Tage's Cornhole? 

What's the difference between watching Sabres hockey and looking at another dude's butthole? 

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Reinhart went back in draft +1. Cozens has already done that. He's 3rd in the whl I think in scoring. He dominated almost every game. There's no point sending him back. There's no challenge there. 

Challenge #1 - Consistency (every game, every shift); shouldn't be a problem if the WHL truly isn't a challenge

Challenge #2 - WHL Player of the Year (he didn't win it this year,; he was 7th in scoring)

Challenge #3 - don't just elevate your game, but the game of the players around you

Challenge #4 - improve scoring and defense by improving play away from the puck

Challenge #5 - make the Sabres out of camp in 21-22 in a 2C/3C and PP role

I don't see how this hurts his development, or the Sabres, at all. 

Maybe he comes back in the fall at 205 lbs and looks even faster.  Ok, let's talk 9 game tryout then.  But nothing he's done in the W at this point shows he is ready for a contributor role in the NHL as a 19 year old, at least in the type of role the Sabres need him to play.  If Jack Eichel wasn't the answer as a 18 and 19 year old, Cozens isn't even on the list of wrong multiple choice answers...

Edited by SHAAAUGHT!!!
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6 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

What's the difference between watching Sabres hockey and looking at another dude's butthole? 

I've seen the Sabres in person before?

1 minute ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

I've seen the Sabres in person before?

Ok this was a lie.  There is no difference.

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30 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Challenge #1 - Consistency (every game, every shift); shouldn't be a problem if the WHL truly isn't a challenge

Challenge #2 - WHL Player of the Year (he didn't win it this year,; he was 7th in scoring)

Challenge #3 - don't just elevate your game, but the game of the players around you

Challenge #4 - improve scoring and defense by improving play away from the puck

Challenge #5 - make the Sabres out of camp in 21-22 in a 2C/3C and PP role

I don't see how this hurts his development, or the Sabres, at all. 

Maybe he comes back in the fall at 205 lbs and looks even faster.  Ok, let's talk 9 game tryout then.  But nothing he's done in the W at this point shows he is ready for a contributor role in the NHL as a 19 year old, at least in the type of role the Sabres need him to play.  If Jack Eichel wasn't the answer as a 18 and 19 year old, Cozens isn't even on the list of wrong multiple choice answers...

This reads like the challenges that were given Cozens last summer.

From all indications, he met 1, 3, and 4. Two is arbitrary and I know there are plenty of hockey people who think he was the best player in the WHL this year, or at least in the conversation.

Lots of Non-elite top 10 picks do well in the NHL in their D2 season. Sam Reinhart for example. I listed a bunch more up-thread. It’s not unusual. It is shocking how many people are terrified of giving this kid a shot without even seeing where he’s at. He could be Reinhart just as easily as Mittelstadt. He doesn’t have to arrive as a fully-finished product. Most don’t. And if he’s not instantly a star, it doesn’t mean he’s ruined.

Sabres fans are like the guy burned by one relationship who refuses to try another.

Edited by dudacek

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22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This reads like the challenges that were given Cozens last summer.

From all indications, he met 1, 3, and 4. Two is arbitrary and I know there are plenty of hockey people who think he was the best player in the WHL this year, or at least in the conversation.

Lots of Non-elite top 10 picks do well in the NHL in their D2 season. Sam Reinhart for example. I listed a bunch more up-thread. It’s not unusual. It is shocking how many people are terrified of giving this kid a shot without even seeing where he’s at. He could be Reinhart just as easily as Mittelstadt. He doesn’t have to arrive as a fully-finished product. Most don’t. And if he’s not instantly a star, it doesn’t mean he’s ruined.

Sabres fans are like the guy burned by one relationship who refuses to try another.

He absolutely should get a 9 game tryout at a minimum unless they both bring in a true 2C (ST or LT) & either Mittelstadt flat out claims 3C &/or Thompson flat out claims 2RW.  And my preference would still be to give him that 9 game look, though he'd likely get minimal ice time as Johansson & Kahun would be inked into at least one of if not both the 3rd line winger roles which would be the slots remaining for Cozens to legitimately battle for.

IMHO, a source of the fear of having Cozens up all year is the team's absolute insistence on playing guys like Mittelstadt & Thompson above the role they were ready for because they had guys with lower ceilings that fit into the lesser role that Casey or BG (baby giraffe) should have been in if they remained in the NHL.  And the coaches were more reluctant to play a guy like Rodrigues over his head than they were to play Casey in that untenable role.  (Not even getting into how guys like Larsson & Girgensons were top 6 C's on squads very bereft of talent.)

My guess is that 2 of Mitts, BG, & Cozens get regular roles on this squad this full season & very likely all 3 are relied on by the end of the year with injury callups.  Don't have a good feel for which of the 2 that is & if Cozens doesn't extend his 9 game tryout, that last bit can't happen until Juniors are done.  And, honestly, as long as 2C is adequately addressed, having 2 of those 3 on the team won't be a negative & by the end of the year having all 3 up could be a positive.

Edited by Taro T
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21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This reads like the challenges that were given Cozens last summer.

From all indications, he met 1, 3, and 4. Two is arbitrary and I know there are plenty of hockey people who think he was the best player in the WHL this year, or at least in the conversation.

Lots of Non-elite top 10 picks do well in the NHL in their D2 season. Sam Reinhart for example. I listed a bunch more up-thread. It’s not unusual. It is shocking how many people are terrified of giving this kid a shot without even seeing where he’s at. He could be Reinhart just as easily as Mittelstadt. He doesn’t have to arrive as a fully-finished product. Most don’t. And if he’s not instantly a star, it doesn’t mean he’s ruined.

Sabres fans are like the guy burned by one relationship who refuses to try another.

Well, I opened myself up.  I was vulnerable.  And look at what happened.

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In the words of Steve Miller, "Tage keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin' into the future."  This year is his time to fly like an eagle.

Edited by Tondas
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52 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Challenge #1 - Consistency (every game, every shift); shouldn't be a problem if the WHL truly isn't a challenge

Challenge #2 - WHL Player of the Year (he didn't win it this year,; he was 7th in scoring)

Challenge #3 - don't just elevate your game, but the game of the players around you

Challenge #4 - improve scoring and defense by improving play away from the puck

Challenge #5 - make the Sabres out of camp in 21-22 in a 2C/3C and PP role

I don't see how this hurts his development, or the Sabres, at all. 

Maybe he comes back in the fall at 205 lbs and looks even faster.  Ok, let's talk 9 game tryout then.  But nothing he's done in the W at this point shows he is ready for a contributor role in the NHL as a 19 year old, at least in the type of role the Sabres need him to play.  If Jack Eichel wasn't the answer as a 18 and 19 year old, Cozens isn't even on the list of wrong multiple choice answers...

This will be fun...

Challenge #1 - Consistency (every game, every shift); shouldn't be a problem if the WHL truly isn't a challenge - Cozens didn't have 2 consecutive games without recording a point

Challenge #2 - WHL Player of the Year (he didn't win it this year,; he was 7th in scoring) - lol 7th in scoring, didn't look at PPG considering Cozens missed time for WJC. He was 3rd in PPG and this is a ridiculous threshold. The WHL player of the year btw, played in 12 more WHL games than Cozens. Beckman also has a ppg of .03 higher than Cozens. "Hey you weren't the #1 player in a league of hundreds so you have to go back because you were... checks notes... #2 or 3.

Challenge #3 - don't just elevate your game, but the game of the players around you - He was the leader of his team and carried his team. He is #1 on his team in points by 17 points while playing in 4 fewer games than the guy in 2nd. He was also team captain.

Challenge #4 - improve scoring and defense by improving play away from the puck - Read anything on Cozens or watch any game from this season. He was really good on and off the puck. 

Challenge #5 - make the Sabres out of camp in 21-22 in a 2C/3C and PP role - He shouldn't be expected to immediately start at 2c that is preposterous. Starting at 3c or 2/3rw isn't out of the question. 

I see no indication that Cozens couldn't at the minimum be a 3rd line player in the NHL immediately. Sending him back to juniors is pointless. He should go to the AHL but again, the NHL has the DUMBEST agreement ever. 

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21 hours ago, dudacek said:

2018 7 Quinn Hughes 56 points

2017 5 Elias Petterson 66 points

2016 6 Matt Tkachuk 49 points

2016 7 Clayton Keller 65 points

2015 4 Mitch Marner 61 points

2015 7 Ivan Provorov 30 points

2015 8 Zach Werenski 47 points

2015 10 Mikko Rantanen 38 points

2014 9 Nikolai Ehlers 38 points


For god sake, keep Dylan out of the NHL in his D2 year, have you seen what can happen?

All examples of players that were immediately good in the NHL. Will Cozens be this good? Idk. But I do know he isn't going to gain much going back to a league that he already dominates. It is why the CHL agreement should be that each team can put 1 19 year old with 3 years of CHL experience into the AHL. Solves all the problems and keeps the CHL running with talent. 

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Tage. What’s his future?

The following is more of a hope ... 

He kills it in Training camp. Is solid as a third liner in the 20-21 season. Gets the opportunity a few times throughout the season to see how he looks on the second line also.

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1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

All examples of players that were immediately good in the NHL. Will Cozens be this good? Idk. But I do know he isn't going to gain much going back to a league that he already dominates. It is why the CHL agreement should be that each team can put 1 19 year old with 3 years of CHL experience into the AHL. Solves all the problems and keeps the CHL running with talent. 

I think some fans or posters think the word “dominate“ must mean number one in all positive categories. Unequivocally the best in that league bar none. It’s an unrealistic expectation, and practically impossible to achieve. But I think some fans confused the meaning of the  word “dominate“. But I do agree he has nothing more to prove in the lower league anymore. if he has an incredible training camp, and solid nine game tryout, he stays up.

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