Pegula Sports Entertainment, behind the scenes

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The bolded is the most important, salient point in the thread. 

Yeah, any one thing you can dismiss or logic away as untrue, or sour grapes, or not so bad, or whatever.  But there is just one piece of evidence after another that they are not doing a good job of running the Buffalo Sabres organization.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, any one thing you can dismiss or logic away as untrue, or sour grapes, or not so bad, or whatever.  But there is just one piece of evidence after another that they are not doing a good job of running the Buffalo Sabres organization.

I'd be more shocked learning a piece of info that didn't speak to ineptitude. Don't we have the longest missed playoffs streak of all time now? I mean..

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, Thorny said:

I'd be more shocked learning a piece of info that didn't speak to ineptitude. Don't we have the longest missed playoffs streak of all time now? I mean..

We tie it if we miss next season I believe. 

 

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The bolded is the most important, salient point in the thread. 

*All they have to do is win hockey games* and yet, they can seemingly only manage to continually add negative elements to that side of the ledger. The most shocking thing, for a long time, hasn't been any of the new revelations about this team, it's merely the fact they can somehow find a way to achieve so much bad, over such a long period of time, and not find one successful season along the way. 

Balls. 

I haven't seen sufficient evidence that they are terrible people to change the fact that by and large, this is the only thing I really care about.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

So all 30 some odd ppl had vendettas? Sure. 

How am I suppose to help keep the Sabres here? 

30+ terminated workers? Vendetta?

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I haven't seen sufficient evidence that they are terrible people to change the fact that by and large, this is the only thing I really care about.

 

I'm in the same spot. 

Trade Ristolainen. Trade Reinhart, Dahlin, or Eichel. Trade Botterill. Trade Kreuger, trade the dark blues for royal, bring back Nolan. Anything. Just for the love of god find a way to win, immediately. I don't care how they manipulate things on ice to achieve this, and I don't care what they've done to manipulate things on ice if they DON'T achieve it. There's no argument for not winning. There's no defense. There's no argument for why it shouldn't happen immediately upon the start of next season - whether practical or ideologically. 

[Curt]

32 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I haven't seen sufficient evidence that they are terrible people to change the fact that by and large, this is the only thing I really care about.

 

I think that goes for pretty much everyone.

Personally, I don’t think they are terrible people.  I just think that they haven’t done a very good job.  If they keep on not doing a very good job, the chances of Buffalo becoming a team that consistently wins is pretty low.  So I do care about reports that they are doing a bad job of running the organization.

[LGR4GM]

I don't think they are terrible. I think they've been bad at running certain things and I don't owe them. Their decision making process is questionable at best and we're starting to understand why. 

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Would agree with both of the bolded thoughts.

But could see some serious ST pain for them.  (Again, they're billionaires that are looking at serious ST cash frow impairments.)  Don't see any of their teams moving (the possible exception being the currently defunct women's hockey team) but can see some ST pain & also significant delays on a new football stadium & the massive renovations to the MMArena they were contemplating last year.

I agree with both Free and Taro here.

It’s also important to note that the spirts landscape is sure to be different, at least in the short term. I have read articles were at least three teams have admitted to being in a “cash” crunch and not “small market” teams. I’m talking teams in SF, Houston and New York. In addition, municipalities are going to be in a financial crisis and even less likely to foot the bill for trivial things like sports teams and stadia.

[Neo]

They got the three point slide correct.

They got a whole lotta other stuff wrong.

There’s nothing unusual about the mission.   There is something unusual about the lack of commitment from the generals and the foot soldiers.  There’s also something unusual if the three point slide is “news” to anyone.

These families succeed when the foot soldiers want to deliver the mission.  They fail when those same soldiers are surprised when they hear it.

And now, I will speculate about things I do not know.   I will speculate from experience, which all by itself is weak sauce out of the bottle.   I am not fair to the Pegulas without this disclosure.

The Pegulas appear over their heads with a conglomerate of businesses new to them.  They don’t have the one and two generations of leadership that builds loyalty, or equity in tough times, among the troops.  Some of their moves won’t get them that loyalty.  They don’t need loyalty, of course.   They can just be business excellent, hire and fire, and get results from whomever they bring in.   Possible.  Difficult.  The Knox family’s employees loved them.  Frankly, they didn’t run the most compelling business model.  They were stewards of a community asset.  Simpler times, simpler business model.   The Pegulas are closer to the Jacobs in their reach.  DNC is one, sharp, steely business machine.  Everyone knows the standards.  It’s also three generations (nearly four), old.  It doesn’t suffer fools, but it’s experienced enough to recognize fools before putting them into positions where they’ll fail.  The Pegulas lack Knox Family love and loyalty and Jacobs family acumen.

This is quick fortune, expanded beyond its expertise, without long time loyal employees that serve wealth creators and the everyday slides one, two and three.

Edit to add ... illiquidity is real and it’s freakin’ a lot of people out.   Entertainment, food, beverage and ENERGY?   oh, boy ...

Edited April 21, 2020 by Neo

[Theana745]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with this and with most of what you've said in this thread.

I do think though that there are 2 more questions: 

1.  Are the Pegulas competent at building a good organization, which presumably would lead to good on-ice results? 

2.  Are they greedy, insensitive jerks?

I think the article today essentially argues that the answers to both of these are "no."

Now, was the article -- and the assertions it made -- somewhat overblown and sensationalized, and likely based on sour grapes from people who have been let go?  Yes, almost certainly.  But it's undeniable that there has been a ton of turnover at PSE, and that the on-ice results have been awful.  So it's not unreasonable for people to connect the dots, and for people to be skeptical about the Pegulas until they demonstrate that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

OTOH, one might think that their development efforts in Buffalo, their charity and the success with the Bills would buy them more goodwill than they seem to be getting here.  Of course, this is a Sabres board, and the Sabres have been freaking terrible.

Couldn't agree more. I think a lot of poster are just frustrated at the wealth gap and divide in this country (thoughts that get projected to this organization), and when a piece like this came out, people jumped on it like sharks. I've said this so many times before, but people are going to have to come together here, whether you like it or not. And again, before people say I have a dog in this fight, I don't anymore. The success of this organization is a vital part to Buffalo, and the direction it goes is partially dependent on your support. Like or not, you have to create a culture that makes players/talented managers and others want to come here. And this goes for every major field. If everyone here is moping around, you're not going to get best neurosurgeon here etc. Culture comes from the ground up.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Theana745

[Marvin]

8 minutes ago, Neo said:

Edit to add ... illiquidity is real and it’s freakin’ a lot of people out.   Entertainment, food, beverage and ENERGY?   oh, boy ...

When you put it this way, it hit me just how much of a bath they are taking currently.

[PASabreFan]

11 minutes ago, Theana745 said:

Couldn't agree more. I think a lot of poster are just frustrated at the wealth gap and divide in this country (thoughts that get projected to this organization), and when a piece like this came out, people jumped on it like sharks. I've said this so many times before, but people are going to have to come together here, whether you like it or not. And again, before people say I have a dog in this fight, I don't anymore. The success of this organization is a vital part to Buffalo, and the direction it goes is partially dependent on your support. Like or not, you have to create a culture that makes players and others want to come here. And this goes for every major field. If everyone here is moping around, you're not going to get best neurosurgeon here etc. Culture comes from the ground up.

If the people are as intricately involved in the success of this business as you like to portray, then we are no longer talking about a traditional customer-business relationship. We are talking about the community as owners of the enterprise. So let's talk about profit-sharing, shall we?

[PASabreFan]

11 minutes ago, E4 ... Ke2 said:

When you put it this way, it hit me just how much of a bath they are taking currently.

A guy wins a million dollars and fulfills his life long dream of owning a modest hot dog shop, which has to close during a pandemic. Is my analogy close? I honestly look forward to being educated as to how it's not.

[Theana745]

5 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

If the people are as intricately involved in the success of this business as you like to portray, then we are no longer talking about a traditional customer-business relationship. We are talking about the community as owners of the enterprise. So let's talk about profit-sharing, shall we?

And you do. You get the benefit of having such a large organization in your backyard. Think of the entertainment they provide, they jobs they create, the happiness they create. Imagine if PSE left, the impact it would have on Buffalo. Like it or not, they provide world class entertainment and job creator. From my time in Buffalo, the city is basically on the shoulders of UB and the pegullas.

 

Edit: Feeling like I'm finally get through to people ?

Edited April 21, 2020 by Theana745

[PASabreFan]

1 minute ago, Theana745 said:

And you do. You get the benefit of having such a large organization in your backyard. Think of the entertainment they provide, they jobs they create, the happiness they create. Imagine if PSE left, the impact it would have on Buffalo.

That's your best post to date! I had a point and didn't articulate it well. It's late. It kind of refers to something I've been trying to put my finger on for the longest time. How the Pegulas can't really own the Buffalo Sabres.

[Theana745]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

That's your best post to date! I had a point and didn't articulate it well. It's late. It kind of refers to something I've been trying to put my finger on for the longest time. How the Pegulas can't really own the Buffalo Sabres.

Not sure what the last part means, but glad I'm getting through the people ☝️

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

If the people are as intricately involved in the success of this business as you like to portray, then we are no longer talking about a traditional customer-business relationship. We are talking about the community as owners of the enterprise. So let's talk about profit-sharing, shall we?

You're referring to the $50MM in losses over the past few years mentioned in the article?  How much would you like to share? 

[apuszczalowski]

I wonder if they expanded too much into industries they had no experience in? Terry may have known the gas industry well and maybe even just lucky to do what he did and make his money. Then it got him into sports ownership which led to entertainment and real estate/development which are areas currently taking huge hits right now. Running those businesses are probably alot different then running a natural gas fracking company.

 

As for the article, it's not surprising people are viewing it as a negative spin piece because the author has been negative alot in the past about them and the organisation so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that this one is all true without a bias spin.....

 

[PASabreFan]

7 hours ago, nfreeman said:

You're referring to the $50MM in losses over the past few years mentioned in the article?  How much would you like to share? 

That's disputed by other accounts of small profits. I'd just like to have a small cut of what they make when they sell the team, hopefully sooner than later. Because, like the guy at One Bills Drive who doesn't want the Sabres' "*****" making its way to the Bills, I'm done with the Pegula's toxicity endangering MY hockey team.

[That Aud Smell]

52 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I'm done with the Pegula's toxicity endangering MY hockey team.

We're back to the Sabres being a community (collective?) asset and the owners being subject to removal by self-appointed stakeholders, huh?

[PASabreFan]

8 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

We're back to the Sabres being a community (collective?) asset and the owners being subject to removal by self-appointed stakeholders, huh?

Yes. Vote with your feet. Which reminds me...

[That Aud Smell]

24 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Yes. Vote with your feet. 

Now you're more describing how markets work. 

Stubborn things, those markets.

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, Theana745 said:

And you do. You get the benefit of having such a large organization in your backyard. Think of the entertainment they provide, they jobs they create, the happiness they create. Imagine if PSE left, the impact it would have on Buffalo. Like it or not, they provide world class entertainment and job creator. From my time in Buffalo, the city is basically on the shoulders of UB and the pegullas.

 

Edit: Feeling like I'm finally get through to people ?

Wow. Just wtf.

Edited April 21, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

That's disputed by other accounts of small profits. I'd just like to have a small cut of what they make when they sell the team, hopefully sooner than later. Because, like the guy at One Bills Drive who doesn't want the Sabres' "*****" making its way to the Bills, I'm done with the Pegula's toxicity endangering MY hockey team.

not to mention the Bills make up for the gap which isn't 50mil a year. Further if we got profits we should also have say in their stupid decisions so we could cut the Sabres loss and actually get the team to a profit because they would be good and actually entertaining. 

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

We're back to the Sabres being a community (collective?) asset and the owners being subject to removal by self-appointed stakeholders, huh?

If I am being told that I basically owe loyalty because the Pegula's spend money than yes.