Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
LGR4GM

Pegula Sports Entertainment, behind the scenes

Recommended Posts

I’m actually pretty surprised that everyone seems to be so negative about this.

1) it was naive wording it as “maintaining their lifestyle” but it’s the goal of every business owner. The point of incorporating is to make sure fluctuations in business don’t effect your personal wealth.

2) anyone who was there at the beginning will tell your the first few years were run without regard to profit. That is unsustainable no matter how wealthy you are.

3) they have made mistakes, their admitting their mistakes and they are actively correcting them.

4) if they really wanted to save money they would have vetoed at least a couple of JNOT’s moves which would probably have been a good idea.

The sky isn’t falling. Relax.

  • Like (+1) 4
  • Skeptical 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LTS said:

It's like everything related to Buffalo professional sports at this point is terrible.  I have no sympathy for those two and frankly I'm done with them and their franchises.  I'll stick around the forums for the discussion, but the teams are dead to me. (Well, the Bills have been for awhile).

 

I posted something a few days ago very close to what you are saying.

I like the discussion, I like thinking about and projecting 'possibilities' as far as how well the team is doing, but I have lost most of the rest of my 'love' or even 'like' for these teams.

All things being equal, I want the Bills and Sabres to win. But I truly, truly just don't care that much anymore. Except for the few members of these forums who seem to always be looking to prove themself right all the time...I like the discussion more than the actual games....and I really don't feel any kind of need to support the teams anymore (or most pro sports teams, pro athletes, drivers, etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So all 30 some odd ppl had vendettas? Sure. 

How am I suppose to help keep the Sabres here? 

Thirty people, mostly fired or self serving employees out of a few hundred. I challenge you to find a work place that has a less percentage of disgruntled empliyees

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, inkman said:

They have been acting like Jabba the Donner for a long time now though.  Their cash flow is the sports teams and Buffalo businesses.  I believe Kim when she says they've reinvested heavily in the Bills.  Quite frankly, they needed to.  What does that leave them as revenue streams?  Sabres and Amerks are cash flow sieves.  So 716, the harbor center and the Bandits(?) are their cash cows. Yikes!  

I'm sure I'm at least 50% wrong but I want to get some folks thinking about.  

The teams have been the cash flow since July since they shut in their wells.

They've definitely put money into the Bills - that training facility from all accounts is truly state of the art.

I know Graham says the Sabres have had heavy losses.  Have seen other reports where they are modestly cashflow positive.  Expect the truth is somewhere in between.  But, until energy prices rebound, the Bills are ost likely their only real source of cash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I’m actually pretty surprised that everyone seems to be so negative about this.

1) it was naive wording it as “maintaining their lifestyle” but it’s the goal of every business owner. The point of incorporating is to make sure fluctuations in business don’t effect your personal wealth.

2) anyone who was there at the beginning will tell your the first few years were run without regard to profit. That is unsustainable no matter how wealthy you are.

3) they have made mistakes, their admitting their mistakes and they are actively correcting them.

4) if they really wanted to save money they would have vetoed at least a couple of JNOT’s moves which would probably have been a good idea.

The sky isn’t falling. Relax.

Haven't sniffed the playoffs in 9 years, you're right the sky isn't falling. It already crashed down. 

  • Thanks (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Theana745 said:

If you bite the hand that feeds you, there might not be a hand left anymore

I’m really sorry but I couldn’t take it anymore. This is the biggest BS theory in the history of theories. There’s far too much potential for wealth for the “hand” to just go away. If that hand can’t figure out business(as it appears that it can’t) then another hand will step in to make that money that the first hand couldn’t(and they’ll use the same workforce). You’re argument is an old sales pitch to give the wealthy a break that they don’t deserve. I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years. I’m not fooled.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Thirty people, mostly fired or self serving employees out of a few hundred. I challenge you to find a work place that has a less percentage of disgruntled empliyees

I challenge you to find 30% of a workforce that's so disgruntled they want to talk about it. Also, what's that tell you? 30% of 100 ppl aren't happy... maybe there's a problem then. 

Edited by LGR4GM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Thirty people, mostly fired or self serving employees out of a few hundred. I challenge you to find a work place that has a less percentage of disgruntled empliyees

Reminded me of the other thing that stood out about the article.  Graham said "(r)epresentatives FOR Terry and Kim Pegula also provided information on the condition of anonymity."  That just seemed weird, especially when the next paragraph has quotes directly from K Pegula.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I challenge you to find 30% of a workforce that's so disgruntled they want to talk about it. Also, what's that tell you? 30% of 100 ppl aren't happy... maybe there's a problem then. 

30 people out of about a thousand that have worked for them the last two years isn’t 30%. And Graham has been taking messages for four days. I’m surprised at the low mumber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, tom webster said:

30 people out of about a thousand that have worked for them the last two years isn’t 30%. And Graham has been taking messages for four days. I’m surprised at the low mumber

You didn't say a thousand the first time. 

Why are you surprised? You're now assuming that all employees saw it. All responded who wanted to. That's not how this was gonna work. The fact it's that high and we heard different perspectives was very interesting. 

You can defend the pegulas, but it's been clear for several years that something is wrong. We're starting to see why. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Theana745 said:

 

Problem is the "garbage product" under normal conditions creates jobs for people. If you bite the hand that feeds you, there might not be a hand left anymore

So they can do whatever they want because they have money. That's essentially what you're saying. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You didn't say a thousand the first time. 

Why are you surprised? You're now assuming that all employees saw it. All responded who wanted to. That's not how this was gonna work. The fact it's that high and we heard different perspectives was very interesting. 

You can defend the pegulas, but it's been clear for several years that something is wrong. We're starting to see why. 

A) I’m not defending the Pegulas, just making a point against all this doom and gloom about their solvency.

B) You are right, the team’s performance has been terrible, but again, I was just commenting on the business viability.

 C) In a quarantined society, with a top writer and twitter presence soliciting their responses, I know most of them saw it.

D) if you don’t think that disgruntled employees want to talk about it, you have not been looking at employer reviews closely.

People I respect, like and yes, even Love were part of layoffs and furloughs. Some of them upset, some of them understanding. Tim Graham did his usual solid job with the article. John Vogl showed his pettiness with some of his tweets. I’ve been among the most disappointed by the results of the team as well as the game day presentation.

However, I still don’t question their commitment and I am hopeful that the moves they are making will make more sense once normalcy returns, whenever that will be.

Edited by tom webster
  • Like (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I am not here to stick up for the Pegulas in this case.

Let's just be fair: If the Sabres had 10 straight years of making the playoffs, 2 ECF's and 1 SC title, is this even being discussed? Does this article even exist?

All they have to do is win. Winning masks most if not all of this. The Pegulas have earned being an easy target for the lack of winning the Sabres have been doing, so that is the only way this will change.

 

Of course.  I think you have to consider that some of what is laid out in the article is exactly what is stopping that super successful alternate scenario from having come to fruition.

  • Like (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just one more thing.  The team has been terrible for a decade, the owners don’t appear to be doing things particularly well, people don’t like working for them.  There are a lot more negative indicators for the Buffalo Sabres than positive ones.  It’s just sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So all 30 some odd ppl had vendettas? Sure. 

How am I suppose to help keep the Sabres here? 

Attend games, buy merchandise, spread word about them on social media 

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So they can do whatever they want because they have money. That's essentially what you're saying. 

Yes. Until someone else gives them another offer. It's their business

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, tom webster said:

A) I’m not defending the Pegulas, just making a point against all this doom and gloom about their solvency.

B) You are right, the team’s performance has been terrible, but again, I was just commenting on the business viability.

 C) In a quarantined society, with a top writer and twitter presence soliciting their responses, I know most of them saw it.

D) if you don’t think that disgruntled employees want to talk about it, you have not been looking at employer reviews closely.

People I respect, like and yes, even Love were part of layoffs and furloughs. Some of them upset, some of them understanding. Tim Graham did his usual solid job with the article. John Vogl showed his pettiness with some of his tweets. I’ve been among the most disappointed by the results of the team as well as the game day presentation.

However, I still don’t question their commitment and I am hopeful that the moves they are making will make more sense once normalcy returns, whenever that will be.

You keep labeling them as disgruntled, that's fine. It doesn't mean that they are lying or wrong. We've witnessed the constant failure particular on the Sabres side. I take what was said with a grain of salt but I think what's being said logically fills in gaps in the reasoning behind so many missteps. 

8 minutes ago, Theana745 said:

Attend games, buy merchandise, spread word about them on social media 

Yes. Until someone else gives them another offer. It's their business

I will not being doing the first. Blind loyalty isn't my thing. 

That leads to the second, you're right it is their business. But I don't work for them and can criticize them. If they leave, someone else or something else will show up. 

Edited by LGR4GM
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what all of this COVID stuff has taught me?  It has taught me that I don't really give a flip about the Sabres.  I don't really give a flip about the NHL either.  The hockey I miss is watching my son play.  I missed watching the NCAA playoffs WITH my son.  The rest of it?  Yeah, don't so much care anymore.

Baseball?  I liked playing baseball.  I liked coaching baseball.  I don't miss watching baseball on TV one bit.  Clayton Kershaw doesn't want to accept millions of dollars to throw a ball because he might have to live in quarantine away from his family for 5 or 6 months?  Boo hoo.  There are migrant farmers all over this country right now who are working away from their families for 5 or 6 months to earn money and what they do is a helluva lot harder than what Clayton Kershaw does and they don't get paid what he gets paid and they don't get to live in quarantine at the Biltmore either.

I'm seriously sick of all this. 

I don't care if the culture at PSE sucks.  It doesn't surprise me at all if that's true.  Their product sucks.  Every product they put out is half-assed crap.  Everything.  Functioning companies with solid morale and culture don't consistently crank out the garbage that PSE has been cranking out year after year after year.

So we shouldn't criticize the rich people because they might sell the team and then boy wouldn't we be sad.  Fine.  

 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Awesome! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m reading some of these posts and in the back of my mind I’m imagining the frame of mine with a few being ... “the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire! We don’t need no water let the MF’er burn! Burn MF’er! Burn!

 

And some others are like ...

giphy.gif

😂

  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I’m actually pretty surprised that everyone seems to be so negative about this.

1) it was naive wording it as “maintaining their lifestyle” but it’s the goal of every business owner. The point of incorporating is to make sure fluctuations in business don’t effect your personal wealth.

2) anyone who was there at the beginning will tell your the first few years were run without regard to profit. That is unsustainable no matter how wealthy you are.

3) they have made mistakes, their admitting their mistakes and they are actively correcting them.

4) if they really wanted to save money they would have vetoed at least a couple of JNOT’s moves which would probably have been a good idea.

The sky isn’t falling. Relax.

How many mistakes are you allowed to make? Admitting mistakes doesn't make things better . They saved money by trading O'Reilly before his bonus was due. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You keep labeling them as disgruntled, that's fine. It doesn't mean that they are lying or wrong. We've witnessed the constant failure particular on the Sabres side. I take what was said with a grain of salt but I think what's being said logically fills in gaps in the reasoning behind so many missteps. 

I will not being doing the first. Blind loyalty isn't my thing. 

That leads to the second, you're right it is their business. But I don't work for them and can criticize them. If they leave, someone else or something else will show up. 

Again it's your decision. Just don't be suprised one day you wake up and there's no more hockey in Buffalo 

Edited by Theana745

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Theana745 said:

Again it's your decision. Just don't be suprised one day you wake up and there's no more hockey in Buffalo 

It is and I'm not surprised every april so if the team moves, they move. I'm sick of having to be a good loyal little fan while the owners piss all over my team's legacy and threaten me. 

Either make the team good or move it out. I'm done being a hostage. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, nucci said:

How many mistakes are you allowed to make? Admitting mistakes doesn't make things better . They saved money by trading O'Reilly before his bonus was due. 

And if it was all about the money they could have saved $15-20 million this year and you could argue the on ice results would have been the same. They spent way over the cap this year.
There are two simultaneous arguments going on here. If the question is, has the team been good, then the answer is obviously no.

If the question is are they committed to building a winner and do they have the financial wherewithal, I believe the answer is yes.

 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, tom webster said:

And if it was all about the money they could have saved $15-20 million this year and you could argue the on ice results would have been the same. They spent way over the cap this year.
There are two simultaneous arguments going on here. If the question is, has the team been good, then the answer is obviously no.

If the question is are they committed to building a winner and do they have the financial wherewithal, I believe the answer is yes.

 

I agree with this and with most of what you've said in this thread.

I do think though that there are 2 more questions: 

1.  Are the Pegulas competent at building a good organization, which presumably would lead to good on-ice results? 

2.  Are they greedy, insensitive jerks?

I think the article today essentially argues that the answers to both of these are "no."

Now, was the article -- and the assertions it made -- somewhat overblown and sensationalized, and likely based on sour grapes from people who have been let go?  Yes, almost certainly.  But it's undeniable that there has been a ton of turnover at PSE, and that the on-ice results have been awful.  So it's not unreasonable for people to connect the dots, and for people to be skeptical about the Pegulas until they demonstrate that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

OTOH, one might think that their development efforts in Buffalo, their charity and the success with the Bills would buy them more goodwill than they seem to be getting here.  Of course, this is a Sabres board, and the Sabres have been freaking terrible.

  • Like (+1) 4
  • Thanks (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, tom webster said:

And if it was all about the money they could have saved $15-20 million this year and you could argue the on ice results would have been the same. They spent way over the cap this year.
There are two simultaneous arguments going on here. If the question is, has the team been good, then the answer is obviously no.

If the question is are they committed to building a winner and do they have the financial wherewithal, I believe the answer is yes.

 

Would agree with both of the bolded thoughts.

But could see some serious ST pain for them.  (Again, they're billionaires that are looking at serious ST cash frow impairments.)  Don't see any of their teams moving (the possible exception being the currently defunct women's hockey team) but can see some ST pain & also significant delays on a new football stadium & the massive renovations to the MMArena they were contemplating last year.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...