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I can't judge a gm who hasn't made any player moves yet. He has 1 signing (Murray) and that's it. I think he got the job for the incorrect reasons but deserves a shot to show if he can do it. 

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5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Wait a minute.  The Pegula's during their dismal decade of Sabres ownership, hired two guys as the GM who had no experience in the role of NHL GM, fired both of them, and then doubled down by hiring a guy who not only had no experience as an NHL GM, he has no experience working in an NHL front office on the hockey ops side of the business...and you can't find any criticism with that?

Under this particular crushing financial scenario I understand what they did and why they did it. My comments do not deal with their decisions prior to this situation. Adams was hired to execute the harsh financial measures that the Pegula wanted done. I still believe that even under this austere setup good hockey decisions can still be made. 

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8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Under this particular crushing financial scenario I understand what they did and why they did it. My comments do not deal with their decisions prior to this situation. Adams was hired to execute the harsh financial measures that the Pegula wanted done. I still believe that even under this austere setup good hockey decisions can still be made. 

There were plenty of financial steps that could have been taken without being penny pinchers in terms of the GM position. Instead they hired a GM based on being a good boy who Kim and Terry like.  Basically the success of the hockey team is now playing second fiddle to finances.  Recipe for disaster.

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17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I can't judge a gm who hasn't made any player moves yet. He has 1 signing (Murray) and that's it. I think he got the job for the incorrect reasons but deserves a shot to show if he can do it. 

As you point out regardless of the stunted hiring process and the thinning out of the staffing when all is said and done the ultimate judgment is going to revolve around the hockey decisions that will be made in this critical offseason. 

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1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

There were plenty of financial steps that could have been taken without hiring the most important person on the hockey ops side of the business, instead of hiring a GM based on being a good boy who Kim and Terry like.  Basically the success of the hockey team is now playing second fiddle to finances.  Recipe for disaster.

If you have read my numerous responses on this topic I have openly acknowledged that financial considerations were the driving force behind this dramatic organization change. It certainly is a risky proposition, and as you state a recipe for disaster. But it doesn't have to be. As I have stated success will be dependent on the quality of the hockey decisions made by this thinned out staff. In the end that is what is most meaningful. 

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2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Fans of both the Sens and Pens were upset about the Sabres "stealing their guy" who was being groomed to be their next GM.

I was on a Pens board yesterday and some of them want the Pens to fire their GM and bring Botterill in.

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1 minute ago, JohnC said:

If you have read my numerous responses on this topic I have openly acknowledged that financial considerations were the driving force behind this dramatic organization change. It certainly is a risky proposition, and as you state a recipe for disaster. But it doesn't have to be. As I have stated success will be dependent on the quality of the hockey decisions made by this thinned out staff. In the end that is what is most meaningful. 

If you were a betting man, what odds would you give that Adam and his reduced hockey ops staff succeed?  25%, 50%?  I don't think going with the no experience option for your #1 hockey ops guy, is going to sit well with the STH who have payed for crap over the last 10 years.  If they think they have a financial problem now, wait until they start seeing crowds under 10,000.  Prepare for a mass exodus of STH when fans are allowed back in.

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

I was on a Pens board yesterday and some of them want the Pens to fire their GM and bring Botterill in.

Hahahah.  Some really knowledgable fans right there.

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12 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

If you were a betting man, what odds would you give that Adam and his reduced hockey ops staff succeed?  25%, 50%?  I don't think going with the no experience option for your #1 hockey ops guy, is going to sit well with the STH who have payed for crap over the last 10 years.  If they think they have a financial problem now, wait until they start seeing crowds under 10,000.  Prepare for a mass exodus of STH when fans are allowed back in.

 

The games are going to have a lot less than 10,000 people, if any people, at the games because the covid issue will still be a significant factor hovering over the sport, country and world.  

Although I do have qualms I'm not going to work myself into a frenzy about the structure of the organization and who is running the operation. What I will be watching are the decisions being made in this offseason. Then I will make my judgment. 

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2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The games are going to have a lot less than 10,000 people, if any people, at the games because the covid issue will still be a significant factor hovering over the sport, country and world.  

You know that is not what I meant.  

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25 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

You know that is not what I meant.  

I said it before and I will say it again I'm holding my judgment until I see what the hockey decisions are in this critical offseason. Other than that I don't know what else to say. 

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3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Usually when there is an opening for the top hockey job in a franchise the obvious issue is who would be the best candidate to assume the job. The standard response to fill that opening is to advertise for replacement candidates and then make a judgment as to who would be the best replacement. That didn't happen with the Sabres. Essentially there was an in-house installation shortly after the firing of the GM followed by an immediate (the next day) chopping of staff. 

Kim Pegula publicly stated after the declaration that Botterill was going to be retained that the owners had multiple discussions with him. The owners could not get him to agree to go along with their new business plan. He was subsequently fired, and Adams, who was involved on the business side of the encompassing hockey business that included youth hockey, was hired with no outsiders considered. What's obvious is that what transpired was mostly driven by business/financial considerations. 

As I have stated in prior posts I'm not criticizing the Pegulas for the dramatic change in direction on how the franchise was going to be managed. This franchise with middling success was hemorrhaging money, and unless a major change in operation was made it was going to continue in this oppressive virus economic environment. 

I have no criticism for how the Pegulas acted. There certainly was an understandable rational behind it. But anyone who doesn't believe that the main consideration in this abrupt scenario wasn't related to financial considerations is being naive. I also believe that under this now more austere organization good hockey decisions still can be made to make this franchise better.

Agreed.  I just don’t agree with the idea that anyone can be so sure that Adams is a disaster in the making before he has even really done anything.  And in this case that his experience/qualifications are no greater than any poster here, which is a ridiculous statement.

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3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Usually when there is an opening for the top hockey job in a franchise the obvious issue is who would be the best candidate to assume the job. The standard response to fill that opening is to advertise for replacement candidates and then make a judgment as to who would be the best replacement. That didn't happen with the Sabres. Essentially there was an in-house installation shortly after the firing of the GM followed by an immediate (the next day) chopping of staff. 

Kim Pegula publicly stated after the declaration that Botterill was going to be retained that the owners had multiple discussions with him. The owners could not get him to agree to go along with their new business plan. He was subsequently fired, and Adams, who was involved on the business side of the encompassing hockey business that included youth hockey, was hired with no outsiders considered. What's obvious is that what transpired was mostly driven by business/financial considerations. 

As I have stated in prior posts I'm not criticizing the Pegulas for the dramatic change in direction on how the franchise was going to be managed. This franchise with middling success was hemorrhaging money, and unless a major change in operation was made it was going to continue in this oppressive virus economic environment. 

I have no criticism for how the Pegulas acted. There certainly was an understandable rational behind it. But anyone who doesn't believe that the main consideration in this abrupt scenario wasn't related to financial considerations is being naive. I also believe that under this now more austere organization good hockey decisions still can be made to make this franchise better.

And anyone who thinks the hiring of Adams wasnt related to trust considerations is also naive.

There has been an attempt to portray Adams as something of a hockey neophyte, which is ridiculous, he has been in the business of hockey his entire life. He understands players and player development, he understands coaches and agents, he is NHL-connected. He also understands both Buffalo and the Sabres, which are two elements other candidates have not had, elements which have been underplayed.

But the primary reason he was hired is because he understands the Pegulas and has shown them not just cooperation, but competence in executing their tasks. Twice they’ve hired men the NHL told them were competent and were wrong. And I think there have been several times in recent months where they’ve said “why can’t Jason be more like Kevyn?”

I don’t think the Sabres hired Adams primarily because he was cheap and easy, I think they hired him primarily because he understood shared their philosophy (Indeed, it seems like he may have helped shape it) and had long history of being able to execute their desires.
 

For better or (mostly) worse, being able to manage the Pegulas seems like an essential quality to being the Sabres GM. I hope he brings other items to the table.

Edited by dudacek
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42 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t think the Sabres hired Adams primarily because he was cheap and easy, I think they hired him primarily because he understood shared their philosophy (Indeed, it seems like he may have helped shape it) and had long history of being able to execute their desires.

My head canon is still going to call him GM Kheevyn, aka The Phantom Menace. But the question is whether he be victorious in the struggle to restore freedom victory to the galaxy Sabrespace. On that, will he be judged.

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5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I can't judge a gm who hasn't made any player moves yet. He has 1 signing (Murray) and that's it. I think he got the job for the incorrect reasons but deserves a shot to show if he can do it. 

I don't disagree with you but it's hard to say he deserves a shot when he doesn't deserve the spot to begin with 

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2 hours ago, Curt said:

Agreed.  I just don’t agree with the idea that anyone can be so sure that Adams is a disaster in the making before he has even really done anything.  And in this case that his experience/qualifications are no greater than any poster here, which is a ridiculous statement.

I don't think you are referring to my comments because I have not said he will be a disaster as the head of the hockey operation. But what I have clearly stated is that the heavy financial structure of the operation was a major reason why there was a GM change. And I have also stated that if the former GM would have been agreeable to the changes mandated by the owners he would have been retained. (Many people disagree with that view.)

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2 hours ago, dudacek said:

And anyone who thinks the hiring of Adams wasnt related to trust considerations is also naive.

There has been an attempt to portray Adams as something of a hockey neophyte, which is ridiculous, he has been in the business of hockey his entire life. He understands players and player development, he understands coaches and agents, he is NHL-connected. He also understands both Buffalo and the Sabres, which are two elements other candidates have not had, elements which have been underplayed.

But the primary reason he was hired is because he understands the Pegulas and has shown them not just cooperation, but competence in executing their tasks. Twice they’ve hired men the NHL told them were competent and were wrong. And I think there have been several times in recent months where they’ve said “why can’t Jason be more like Kevyn?”

I don’t think the Sabres hired Adams primarily because he was cheap and easy, I think they hired him primarily because he understood shared their philosophy (Indeed, it seems like he may have helped shape it) and had long history of being able to execute their desires.
 

For better or (mostly) worse, being able to manage the Pegulas seems like an essential quality to being the Sabres GM. I hope he brings other items to the table.

I have never said that Adams was hired primarily because he was cheap and easy. You have misconstrued my commentary on this subject. 

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I'm new to the community, will sign-up later.  Good discussions here.

On the Pegula/Adam's hire, I too plan to give him time before making judgements...he sounds like he has a clue so far.  Tim'e will tell more.

As far as the Pegula's go, I have grown very disenchanted with Kerry and Tim largely because of their apparent involvement in the Operations side of the house, deeper than I believe it should be.  I am concerned with their plan to hire an inexperienced GM and then make him fire 70% of the experienced members of that side of the house.  It just doesn't leave a whole lot of support for Adam's in a very key year for the organization.

We'll all see how it goes but if seems like they are making his job twice as difficult.

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2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I don't think you are referring to my comments because I have not said he will be a disaster as the head of the hockey operation. But what I have clearly stated is that the heavy financial structure of the operation was a major reason why there was a GM change. And I have also stated that if the former GM would have been agreeable to the changes mandated by the owners he would have been retained. (Many people disagree with that view.)

I agree with you.  No, I wasn’t referring to anything you said.  Was referring to the comment that I originally replied to, which you then replied to.

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15 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

My team I built on cap friendly...I want to hear how horrible all these trade are since that is what I am known for...

I was being really mindful of expansion draft after next season, and signing Dahlin and Joker to extensions. 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/edit/1827548

error message for me

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1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

My team I built on cap friendly...I want to hear how horrible all these trade are since that is what I am known for...

I was being really mindful of expansion draft after next season, and signing Dahlin and Joker to extensions. 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/edit/1827548

The link you provided has the word "edit" in it & brings up an error while viewing. I'm guessing because you didn't save it or publish it.

Didn't even get out of the gate with this one, we've reached a new low haha

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1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

My team I built on cap friendly...I want to hear how horrible all these trade are since that is what I am known for...

I was being really mindful of expansion draft after next season, and signing Dahlin and Joker to extensions. 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/edit/1827548

Same error.  Please correct this ASAP as a Sweet Lou trade is like catnip.  

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If there's one good thing from these playoffs, it's my continued love/belief in our defensive pipeline to build us up for that playoff style.

Samuelsson and Borgen are EXACTLY what our defense needs, and I hope both make it (100% Borgen will, tbd on Mattias)

 

Also, despite a shaky Amerks season, Rasmus Asplund dominated as a twf against peers in the dev camp and prospect tournys. Hopefully he get's back on track.

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