CallawaySabres Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Contract year, enough said. Skinner has not been adding anything to this team and if he is not scoring, he is totally invisible. He completely deserves to be blasted on the air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Some of Marty's comments for those who can't listen to the link: "Work!" "His game is lacking in determination and structure." "He's like a zombie out there." "Not even working so he should not be able to play with Jack Eichel. That's a reward." "I know he's frustrated but he can avoid taking bad penalties! When things are not going well he always takes bad penalties. Go out there and draw penalties; move your feet; get to the front of the net." "When they see the guy working hard, then there's a reward there." "Maybe with 10 games left, you try him in Olofsson's place and see how it goes." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said: Contract year, enough said. Skinner has not been adding anything to this team and if he is not scoring, he is totally invisible. He completely deserves to be blasted on the air He's been playing with hot garbage like Rodriguez all year, who is basically a career AHLer playing on an NHL team right now. His complete misuse goes straight to Ralph and Botterill. I assume Ralph has buried Skinner where he has, and refused to play him with Eichel, as some sort of statement to Botterill that he is not happy with the talent he has been given to work with. Highly doubt Ralph and Botterill are united and on the same page. Skinner is a scrappy good worker by nature; when he is back playing with play making NHL caliber players, he'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, CallawaySabres said: Contract year, enough said. Skinner has not been adding anything to this team and if he is not scoring, he is totally invisible. He completely deserves to be blasted on the air In my view, since the first month of the season, Skinner has been about as useful and effective this year as Vesey and Sheary. Given his stature in the pecking order in terms of expectations (more or less "second-best-player-until-Dahlin-matures") the slack he gets relative to other players has been baffling to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said: He's been playing with hot garbage like Rodriguez all year, who is basically a career AHLer playing on an NHL team right now. His complete misuse goes straight to Ralph and Botterill. I assume Ralph has buried Skinner where he has, and refused to play him with Eichel, as some sort of statement to Botterill that he is not happy with the talent he has been given to work with. Highly doubt Ralph and Botterill are united and on the same page. Skinner is a scrappy good worker by nature; when he is back playing with play making NHL caliber players, he'll be fine. He got his money and I agree with Marty, he's not working hard enough. No goals, fine, but he is not creating anything out there with his effort....nothing. He should not have to wait until he gets his 2nd line center to show that part of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said: He got his money and I agree with Marty, he's not working hard enough. No goals, fine, but he is not creating anything out there with his effort....nothing. He should not have to wait until he gets his 2nd line center to show that part of his game. Just compare the efforts of Skinner to Sheary. Sheary isn't nearly as talented but gets out there and grinds. Just like Skinner did last year. Contract year efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said: Some of Marty's comments for those who can't listen to the link: "Work!" "His game is lacking in determination and structure." "He's like a zombie out there." "Not even working so he should not be able to play with Jack Eichel. That's a reward." "I know he's frustrated but he can avoid taking bad penalties! When things are not going well he always takes bad penalties. Go out there and draw penalties; move your feet; get to the front of the net." "When they see the guy working hard, then there's a reward there." "Maybe with 10 games left, you try him in Olofsson's place and see how it goes." Jeff has drawn 7 more penalties than he's taken this year. I can think of two bad penalties he's taken, and they were weeks, and then a month or two, ago. Marty is being pretty damn vague, so his comments aren't any more interesting than the shredding that Skinner gets here on a regular basis Anyone who thinks they were going to get structure from jeff hasn't watched any of Skinner's career, and doesn't understand what was successful about his season last year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Jeff has drawn 7 more penalties than he's taken this year. I can think of two bad penalties he's taken, and they were weeks, and then a month or two, ago. Marty is being pretty damn vague, so his comments aren't any more interesting than the shredding that Skinner gets here on a regular basis Anyone who thinks they were going to get structure from jeff hasn't watched any of Skinner's career, and doesn't understand what was successful about his season last year Does Skinner get shredded here on a regular basis? Prior to the past week or so, I've felt like PA and I have been voices in the wilderness. Guess I need to back off. But first: 4/6/10/-18 since Nov. 1; 0/3/3/-17 in his past 22 games; $9 million. Edited February 20, 2020 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: Does Skinner get shredded here on a regular basis? Prior to the past week or so, I've felt like PA and I have been voices in the wilderness. Guess I need to back off. But first: 4/6/10/-18 since Nov. 1; 0/3/3/-17 in his past 22 games; $9 million. I've seen an apporopriate amount of Skinner criticism for his stretch of play, I'd say, to the point where what Marty says is uninteresting because I've already read it a hundred times. It's particularly prevalent in post-loss GDTs. Maybe 10-12 games in he wasn't getting much, but it's gone on long enough that everyone has had their say already. I don't mind that people post about it, but there isn't anything to say that hasn't already been said a bunch, and Marty's "insight" highlights that I'm far more interested in figuring out how to fix it than being angry that it's happening, especially because there are only parts of his goal-less stretch where I have real problems with his game, and we aren't currently in one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 34 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said: Some of Marty's comments for those who can't listen to the link: "Work!" "His game is lacking in determination and structure." "He's like a zombie out there." "Not even working so he should not be able to play with Jack Eichel. That's a reward." "I know he's frustrated but he can avoid taking bad penalties! When things are not going well he always takes bad penalties. Go out there and draw penalties; move your feet; get to the front of the net." "When they see the guy working hard, then there's a reward there." "Maybe with 10 games left, you try him in Olofsson's place and see how it goes." If putting Jeff back with Jack caused him to start tearing up the league and helps us win games who gives a flying fig if he "earned" playing with Jack? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Jeff has drawn 7 more penalties than he's taken this year. I can think of two bad penalties he's taken, and they were weeks, and then a month or two, ago. Marty is being pretty damn vague, so his comments aren't any more interesting than the shredding that Skinner gets here on a regular basis Anyone who thinks they were going to get structure from jeff hasn't watched any of Skinner's career, and doesn't understand what was successful about his season last year I bet Marty is more plugged into the team and what goes on behind the scenes than we are. We know Marty. He's not a bomb-thrower. These remarks are stunning. 6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I'm far more interested in figuring out how to fix it than being angry that it's happening, especially because there are only parts of his goal-less stretch where I have real problems with his game, and we aren't currently in one How on earth do WE go about fixing Skinner? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: Isn't Skinner producing opportunities at the same rate just not scoring and get 0 help from line mates. Other than that, Jason, how was your trip to Ottawa? Not to pick on Liger (hey, why not), but this is the kind of stuff that I've said about the analytics people for a long time. They don't really care about goals. They have better ways of evaluating players. My crazy take, which I don't think is all that crazy, is that they envision a sports world in 25 years where THEY determine who has won a game. The woke will realize that the scoreboard is unfair and arbitrary. So that's it from Ottawa, bots and girls, the sanctioned outcome of tonight's clash was Buffalo 1.895/.35 Deluca and Ottawa 1.894/.34. What a rain forest blaze this one was! Postgame coming up, streamed on your remote-controlled *****! Edited February 20, 2020 by PASabreFan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said: That's a reward. This has been stated on the forum too... that Skinner should not play with Eichel if he hasn't earned it. The way I see it, it's the coach's responsibility to get the most out of his players. You don't play Skinner with Eichel to reward anyone, you play them together because it's best for the team. There are issues with the team and Krueger refuses to put the two most dynamic players last year on the same line because .... I don't know, he wants to send a message or passive aggressively assert his dominance or whatever. When he refused to put them together when Olofsson was injured was just dumb. Skins himself was coming off an injury. Even if the intent was just to put him there for a short stint until Ollie was ready, it would have been a good way to kickstart Skinner as he joined the lineup. Do what's best for the team, Ralph, and eat your damned pride. I'm neutral on RFK as a coach; I'm willing to hang in there into next season to see what happens, but I really don't like the guy as a person. Never have. My preference doesn't matter though. If the players buy in and he can get them to perform, that's what's important. But still.... don't like the guy on a personal level. He strikes me as a flim-flam man. Edited February 20, 2020 by Doohickie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Other than that, Jason, how was your trip to Ottawa? Not to pick on Liger (hey, why not), but this is the kind of stuff that I've said about the analytics people for a long time. They don't really care about goals. They have better ways of evaluating players. My crazy take, which I don't think is all that crazy, is that they envision a sports world in 25 years where THEY determine who has won a game. The woke will realize that the scoreboard is unfair and arbitrary. So that's it from Ottawa, bots and girls, the sanctioned outcome of tonight's clash was Buffalo 1.895/.35 Deluca and Ottawa 1.894/.34. What a rain forest blaze this one was! Postgame coming up, streamed on your remote-controlled *****! I think the biggest issue is people look at all the advantages baseball has had from analytics and everyone wants to be the first team to really fine tune it in hockey. The issue is that the applicability in baseball and hockey are different levels of effective. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: How on earth do WE go about fixing Skinner? WE don't. But Krueger can, by putting him with Jack. It will do one of two things: He'll either start to score and it will restore his confidence, or he won't and then RFK can say without a doubt that the problem is definitely Skinner. If it's the latter, and it's due to poor attitude, maybe that would adjust it and he'll stop pining for Jack. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 I'd respect Marty's opinions a lot more if he went after the GK'rs with the same vigor he goes after everyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: I bet Marty is more plugged into the team and what goes on behind the scenes than we are. We know Marty. He's not a bomb-thrower. These remarks are stunning. How on earth do WE go about fixing Skinner? They are not stunning lol. There are more compelling Skinner takes on this board every day, and he provided no examples/evidence of anything that COULD be stunning. "Not even working." "taking bad penalties, not drawing penalties." This is the kind of stuff I yelled at hockey games on the TV at age 12 I'm not even sure what you're second question is asking. What I mean is I'm going to continue to do what I've done on this forum every day for years Edited February 20, 2020 by Randall Flagg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Marty is a fun presence on the broadcast but the combined hockey insight he, Andrew, Craig, Duff etc. have ever given me is zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 35 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said: Some of Marty's comments for those who can't listen to the link: "Work!" "His game is lacking in determination and structure." "He's like a zombie out there." "Not even working so he should not be able to play with Jack Eichel. That's a reward." "I know he's frustrated but he can avoid taking bad penalties! When things are not going well he always takes bad penalties. Go out there and draw penalties; move your feet; get to the front of the net." "When they see the guy working hard, then there's a reward there." "Maybe with 10 games left, you try him in Olofsson's place and see how it goes." This criticism is kind of insane. We all knew what type of player Skinner was before Botterill re-signed him. He's not a grinder; he doesn't drive a line; he's not captain material. He's not Ovechkin or Malkin. He's a sniper. He needs a setup man. We all knew this. He was signed because he has the right skillset to maximize the team's $10 million investment in Jack. He was signed to play with Eichel. So what does Krueger do with the guy who was signed to play with Eichel? He doesn't play himwith Eichel. What does Botterill do to find a center to play with his expensive sniper? Nothing. Punishing Skinner for not doing the things we all know he can't do by putting him on a line with AHL grinders doesn't make any sense. Olofsson has complicated the issue by playing so well on the top line, so that makes the investment in Skinner even more sketchy. But does anyone really believe that Botterill would have done anything to fix the offense with that cap space if he didn't re-sign Skinner? And finally, Marty's suggestion to play Skinner with Eichel the last 10 games is just crazy. First, Krueger had the opportunity to do this when Olofsson was injured. Second, what if teaming Eichel with Skinner actually works? How stupid does the Sabres management team look, waiting 72 games to try something that worked so well last season? The criticism directed at Skinner should really be focused on Sabres management and its total lack of a roadmap to build the team. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Skinner's contract and RK's deployment of Skinner are proof that RK and Botterill do not see player potential/usage the same way. This is a problem we've seen here going back to the last years of Lindy and Darcy's tenure. Marty, essentially siding with the Duanes and putting Skinner's issues on Skinner means Marty is siding with RK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 So, there is a lack of consistent vision within the whole of Pegula-dom. Surprising? No. Stunning in that, once again, not all of the horses are under control and following the same path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, jsb said: GK'rs ??? 19 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: "taking bad penalties, not drawing penalties." The second part of that simply isn't true. He drew at least two penalties last game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, freester said: What's curious to me is that we plug a rookie into Skinner's role on the top line and he's suddenly amazing. Even Vesey starts scoring when he's on the top line. If a player like Skinner is useless without Eichel and Sam, than he is clearly not worth a huge contract. I simply don’t buy this approach. Show me a great goalscorer in this league, and I’ll show you one or more great passers. True then, true now. The great scorers finish. That’s what they do. Others miss open nets, or hit the bar, or just put it right in the goalies chest. But very very few goalscorers can shine playing, with third liners or worse. I’m as annoyed by Skinner as the next guy, but to think pure goalscorers should create their own offense, is foolish IMO. Ovies are few and far between, and even they need someone to set them up half the time. You find a guy who can consistently finish, you make sure he gets set up as often as humanly possible. 40-goal scorers don’t grow on trees, but guys who miss open nets, hits posts or chestplates, do. Sabres fans, of all people, should know this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: They are not stunning lol. There are more compelling Skinner takes on this board every day, and he provided no examples/evidence of anything that COULD be stunning. "Not even working." "taking bad penalties, not drawing penalties." This is the kind of stuff I yelled at hockey games on the TV at age 12 I think what @PASabreFan is referring to as “stunning” is the fact that this type criticism is being launched by a Sabres’ employee. The fact that MARTY is saying it, probably means he’s pretty comfortable that there’s a great deal of support for that point of view either within the room, or the organization, or both. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: They are not stunning lol. There are more compelling Skinner takes on this board every day, and he provided no examples/evidence of anything that COULD be stunning. "Not even working." "taking bad penalties, not drawing penalties." This is the kind of stuff I yelled at hockey games on the TV at age 12 I'm not even sure what you're second question is asking. What I mean is I'm going to continue to do what I've done on this forum every day for years Uh, I'm sure you know you can't personally fix Skinner. I can't fix Terry. Being a fan is an exercise in psychic surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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