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LabattBlue

Erod is a frustrating player to watch...

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I just don't get this guy.  He can be really good, or invisible.  So far this season, he is mostly the latter.  Actually when you come right down to it, the bottom 6 is filled with frustrating to watch players...

Girgensons

Larrson

Sobotka

Vesey

Okposo

Erod

 

I want guys in the bottom 6 who go balls to the wall every night....not once every 5 games.  If you can't bring your "A" game every night, then GTFO.

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I just don’t think erod is full NHL level player.  He’s a decent enough skater.  Decent enough shot and passer.  Decent work ethic.  But there isn’t one aspect of his game that rises far enough above decent to allow a role to be identified for him.

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7 minutes ago, Weave said:

I just don’t think erod is full NHL level player.  He’s a decent enough skater.  Decent enough shot and passer.  Decent work ethic.  But there isn’t one aspect of his game that rises far enough above decent to allow a role to be identified for him.

This is pretty much it.

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14 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I just don't get this guy.  He can be really good, or invisible.  So far this season, he is mostly the latter.  Actually when you come right down to it, the bottom 6 is filled with frustrating to watch players...

Girgensons

Larrson

Sobotka

Vesey

Okposo

Erod

 

I want guys in the bottom 6 who go balls to the wall every night....not once every 5 games.  If you can't bring your "A" game every night, then GTFO.

On an unrelated note, anyone know why double spacing occurs(see list of players above).  Not seeing this anywhere else(email, local docs, other internet forums including TSW).

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2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

On an unrelated note, anyone know why double spacing occurs(see list of players above).  Not seeing this anywhere else(email, local docs, other internet forums including TSW).

I know that Shift+Return gives me single on my iPad.
See?!

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1 minute ago, SwampD said:

I know that Shift+Return gives me single on my iPad.
See?!

That seems to do the trick.  Thx.

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20 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I just don't get this guy.  He can be really good, or invisible.  So far this season, he is mostly the latter.  Actually when you come right down to it, the bottom 6 is filled with frustrating to watch players...

Girgensons

Larrson

Sobotka

Vesey

Okposo

Erod

 

I want guys in the bottom 6 who go balls to the wall every night....not once every 5 games.  If you can't bring your "A" game every night, then GTFO.

 

Each one of these players is an NHL hockey player, and effort is rarely an issue for most of them. Ability is another story.

Good NHL hockey teams dress 3 or 4 players of this level a night and they fill their roles. The Sabres dress 6 or 7 and, over the long haul, too many are overmatched.

We've almost recovered from the tank - we aren’t dressing multiple AHLers any more - but we still need more players that can usually be counted on to make a positive impact more often than they don’t rather than just holding their own.

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1 minute ago, dudacek said:

 

Each one of these players is an NHL hockey player, and effort is rarely an issue for most of them. Ability is another story.

Good NHL hockey teams dress 3 or 4 players of this level a night and they fill their roles. The Sabres dress 6 or 7 and, over the long haul, too many are overmatched.

We've almost recovered from the tank - we aren’t dressing multiple AHLers any more - but we still need more players that can usually be counted on to make a positive impact more often than they don’t rather than just holding their own.

If effort isn't an issue with any of them, how do Girgensons, Larsson & Okposo look fabulous for a few games, and then mediocre at best for a handful more?

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30 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

If effort isn't an issue with any of them, how do Girgensons, Larsson & Okposo look fabulous for a few games, and then mediocre at best for a handful more?

Ability - a combination of their decisions and their connection with their teammates, the way the puck is bouncing, what their opponent is doing and the quality of those opponents.

The better a player you are, the better able you are to connect with your teammates, control the bounces and exploit your opponents.

When Kyle turns over the puck it’s usually due to his hands or his brain or his feet failing him, not his effort. When Zemgus isn’t catching guys on the forecheck, it’s more often because the team failed to time the dump-in correctly, or because Hedman made subtle pick, or because Reilly effectively wheeled away from him, not because he didn’t skate hard enough. When Larry gets caught on the backcheck it’s more often because Zemgus missed the net on his shot and the puck rimmed around, launching an easy counterattack where he is trapped, not because he was lazy.

The less able you are, the more often these things happen, regardless of effort. Hockey is chaotic and the best players are those who can consistently make sense of that chaos and execute.

I’m not saying effort is never an issue, but I think it’s far less of a factor than execution.

Edited by dudacek
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1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

I just don't get this guy.  He can be really good, or invisible.  So far this season, he is mostly the latter.  Actually when you come right down to it, the bottom 6 is filled with frustrating to watch players...

Girgensons

Larrson

Sobotka

Vesey

Okposo

Erod

 

I want guys in the bottom 6 who go balls to the wall every night....not once every 5 games.  If you can't bring your "A" game every night, then GTFO.

No one plays their best every game.

Most of those guys you listed are notable for their consistent “try hard”, so I don’t really get what you are complaining about.

Sometimes fringe NHL players or bottom 6ers are not able to make an impact, because they just aren’t that good.

Edited by Curt

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Erod would perhaps be less invisible if he was playing regularly and in the top six.  He's been playing on mediocre teams, which can drag you down as well.  Secondly, all teams need role players that don't necessarily light up the scoreboard.  The role player we truly need is someone who can police the game.  My favorite these days is Tom Wilson of the Caps: tough, intimidating, and can score. 

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1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Erod would perhaps be less invisible if he was playing regularly and in the top six.  He's been playing on mediocre teams, which can drag you down as well.  Secondly, all teams need role players that don't necessarily light up the scoreboard.  The role player we truly need is someone who can police the game.  My favorite these days is Tom Wilson of the Caps: tough, intimidating, and can score. 

I don't necessarily need bottom 6 players to "light up" the scoreboard, but they have to contribute in some way when not scoring...and that being said, they have to score at least a little...especially the 3rd line guys.  As the 1/4 pole is quickly approaching...

 

Goals+Assists

Erod 0+1
Girgensons 1+3
Larsson 1+1
Sobotka 1+2
Vesey 0+2
Okposo 1+4
Sheary 3+1

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The only player out of that list I would consider “frustrating to watch”  is Okposo. I wish the injuries didn’t ruin him. He could have been so good ...

every other player are pretty much exactly how I expected them to be. No surprises. No frustration. However it would be nice if ERod played more and had half a chance to get going and produce a little.

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It feels like Vesey just needs that first goal to get going. He's had some good chances.

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2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

It feels like Vesey just needs that first goal to get going. He's had some good chances.

Agreed.

He went 10 games with only 1 point during a stretch last October. He scored 2 goals in all of December, 1 in all of January, and 1 in all of March, yet still had 17 on the season.

Like most 3rd liners, consistent scoring hasn’t really been a thing for him.

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Of those players, the simple answer is they just aren't that good.

ERod, Girgensens and Larrson have never shown any ability to finish and put the puck in the net. They all skate well and at times check reasonably well but they aren't physical enough to fill that role well and they aren't skilled enough to fill that one either. They are kind of almost players and on a good team they'd all be waived and sent to the minors.

Vesey is a disappointment but I do think it's partly the role Krueger has put him in - defense first. It's hard for him to adjust to and as such he too falls into the inbetween category. He isn't going to sign for much with whoever he plays for next year at this rate.

Sobotka has played decently in his D role but he doesn't have the offensive skills to really make that line truly dangerous. A power forward with scoring ability is what that line needs, but we simply don't have one. Maybe Cozens next year completes that unit.

Kyle? Never been able to figure out his deal. In theory he should be a 20-30 goal  second line winger. Instead he's a bad contract. One of the nails in Murray's coffin.

 

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When KO was signed. It was a fair deal. It just was. THEN .... AFTER .... he was sidelined for serious reasons that I don’t think needs reminding. We all know them and how serious it was.

THAT is what “killed” KO’s career and ability to be an effective top 6 winger. Not his talent. And not TM or Housley. Good grief. Most teams have a “KO type” on their team. Overpaid. An albatross to the cap. But at the time it was a fair deal that was understandable. If one can remember all the circumstances at the time the contract was signed.

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7 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

 

Girgensons

Larrson

Sobotka

Vesey

Okposo

Erod

 

The only guys in this list I care to see in a Sabres uniform are Girgs and Angry Larry.   Four of them need to go  right now if we are to compete    

Upgrade the other 4 players and include at least two forwards that play with an edge, or grit, or whatever we call it in this era.  

Cozens will eventually replace one of these players, maybe Tage replaces another.   Bring in some real NHL talent to replace the rest.  

 

Edited by Pimlach

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1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Kyle? Never been able to figure out his deal. In theory he should be a 20-30 goal  second line winger. Instead he's a bad contract. One of the nails in Murray's coffin.

You can’t figure out Okposo’s deal?  Remember that part about how he has sustained repeated brain injuries that coincided with his decline in play?

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31 minutes ago, Curt said:

You can’t figure out Okposo’s deal?  Remember that part about how he has sustained repeated brain injuries that coincided with his decline in play?

He did score 45 points in 2017-2018 after his injury.   I would no longer expect 60+ with his age and the injury but he looks worse than last year and scoring at a slower pace.  In fact I think it’s completely fair to ask why E-rod, KO, Girgs and Vesey are not producing.  Rodrigues had 29 last year and has 1 assist this year.  Vesey is a perennial 15  goal guy with zero.   KO Andy Vlad are on the wrong side of 30 so you can expect some decline, but the others (and throw Sheary in this mix) are in their prime and I expect growth.  Instead it’s a regression to the lean.   

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51 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

He did score 45 points in 2017-2018 after his injury.   I would no longer expect 60+ with his age and the injury but he looks worse than last year and scoring at a slower pace.  In fact I think it’s completely fair to ask why E-rod, KO, Girgs and Vesey are not producing.  Rodrigues had 29 last year and has 1 assist this year.  Vesey is a perennial 15  goal guy with zero.   KO Andy Vlad are on the wrong side of 30 so you can expect some decline, but the others (and throw Sheary in this mix) are in their prime and I expect growth.  Instead it’s a regression to the lean.   

In 17-18 Okposo was still getting top 6 mins and tons of PP time.  He was not very effective at ES.  I think he has declined farther since then though.  From age yes, but don’t forget that it has not been only one concussion for him.  He has had 3, including one late last season.  He is just plain done.

Girgensons has produced at the same rate he has for the past 4 years.  No questions there.

Vesey and ERod, sure.  Although ERod has gotten only 10 mins per game for 8 games.

Edited by Curt

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These bottom 6 guys are what they are. None of them except Okposo have ever been expected to produce offence and Okposo only ever did it while with the Islanders. Frankly getting any offence out of any of these guys is a bonus when it does happen. E-Rod=fringe, Vessey=Meh, Okposo=DLD(done like dinner),Larson=defence, Girgs=defence .

Until JBots upgrades the 2nd line the 3rd will continue to suck and so on. So its a waiting game. Sucks to be us.

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7 hours ago, Curt said:

You can’t figure out Okposo’s deal?  Remember that part about how he has sustained repeated brain injuries that coincided with his decline in play?

Of course I know about that, but he wasn't very good for us before that either. 

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1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Of course I know about that, but he wasn't very good for us before that either. 

Disagree.  The season before, he produced at a 24 goal, 56 point pace.  He was pretty good.

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