dudacek Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 21 minutes ago, Tondas said: Just curious @dudacek, but what would be your draft choice(s) only ask be for Risto (at no retained salary)? I have no interest in trading Risto for picks. None. But to answer your question, if forced, my ask would be two late firsts, or a first in the teens, plus a second. Brandon Montour got a late first and a prospect worth a 2nd. Dougie Hamilton got a mid-first and two 2nds (then sorta Noah Hanifin). I’d put Risto’s value between those two. Guys like Braun go for a 2nd and a 3rd. Risto has warts that show up in the eye test as well as the analytics box, but he’s top four on any blueline in the NHL and top 2 on a lot of them. He’s 6’4, skilled, nasty, competitive and he produces. He’s entering his prime and he’s got term. I’ve heard all the analytics arguments refuting the above. That’s still my take. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tondas Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: I have no interest in trading Risto for picks. None. But to answer your question, if forced, my ask would be two late firsts, or a first in the teens, plus a second. Brandon Montour got a late first and a prospect worth a 2nd. Dougie Hamilton got a mid-first and two 2nds (then sorta Noah Hanifin). I’d put Risto’s value between those two. Guys like Braun go for a 2nd and a 3rd. Risto has warts that show up in the eye test as well as the analytics box, but he’s top four on any blueline in the NHL and top 2 on a lot of them. He’s 6’4, skilled, nasty, competitive and he produces. He’s entering his prime and he’s got term. I’ve heard all the analytics arguments refuting the above. That’s still my take. Thanks. Good take. If I could sign Gardiner and trade Risto for two late firsts, or a first in the teens, plus a second, I'd do it. But that's why I'm on the balcony drinking a beer and not an NHL GM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Eleven said: We can laugh now, but when it's Dahlin's turn... Who is Dahlin's agent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tondas Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Weave said: Who is Dahlin's agent? Newport Sports Management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 Just now, Tondas said: Newport Sports Management. You know, the guys who squeezed an extra million out of Jason for Skinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tondas Posted August 2, 2019 Report Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: You know, the guys who squeezed an extra million out of Jason for Skinner. Yep. Reinhart's agent as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) On 8/2/2019 at 2:37 PM, Eleven said: We can laugh now, but when it's Dahlin's turn... I'm sure Botterill won't have screwed the pooch as bad as Dubas did with Nylander, and stupidly saving Marner for last. He put himself in this position through his chosen order of negotiations. It could get a little tricky with Reinhart up next off-season, but you'd think getting Dahlin locked up next summer is the best strategy. If we have to pay him an exorbitant amount next summer because already contending for a Norris this year, well, good. Edited August 4, 2019 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 32 minutes ago, Thorny said: I'm sure Botterill won't have screwed the pooch as bad as Dubas did with Nylander, and stupidly saving Marner for last. He put himself in this position through his chosen order of negotiations. It could get a little tricky with Reinhart up next off-season, but you'd think getting Dahlin locked up next summer is the best strategy. If we have to pay him an exorbitant amount next summer because already contending for a Norris this year, well, good. My main concern is that Dahlin won't want to give us eight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Eleven said: My main concern is that Dahlin won't want to give us eight years. Maybe, maybe not. But looking across the room at the guy with the C on his chest, knowing he took 8 years, rather than looking across at Auston Money Matthews and his 5 year deal, should work in our favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: Maybe, maybe not. But looking across the room at the guy with the C on his chest, knowing he took 8 years, rather than looking across at Auston Money Matthews and his 5 year deal, should work in our favour. But what if he looks at Steven Money Stamkos, or John Money Tavares, or Sidney Money Crosby, or Patrick Money Kane, or Jonathan Money Toews? What Jack and Connor did, term-wise, is pretty rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: But what if he looks at Steven Money Stamkos, or John Money Tavares, or Sidney Money Crosby, or Patrick Money Kane, or Jonathan Money Toews? What Jack and Connor did, term-wise, is pretty rare. Without the alliteration the nickname loses something tho... I feel like anecdotally there was a time when 8 year deals were common, but I could be wrong, and for whatever reason I can't figure out how to sort by contract length on CapFriendly. Edited August 4, 2019 by Thorny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 Well, there's also guys like Tarasenko, Draisaitl, Ekblad, MacKinnon (7 years)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 I wonder if any of this has to do with the up coming negotiations with the NHLPA. Is there something that these players might be fighting for that could cause them to hesitate on the long term contracts until maybe after that? Don't know what but, there could be something that will be advantageous to wait for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Eleven said: My main concern is that Dahlin won't want to give us eight years. This, It certainly seems the trend and is probably what his agent will recommend. 1 hour ago, Thorny said: Maybe, maybe not. But looking across the room at the guy with the C on his chest, knowing he took 8 years, rather than looking across at Auston Money Matthews and his 5 year deal, should work in our favour. I would not be surprised to see Dahlin - Given what I’ve seen of his personality - following Jack’s lead and going all-in with the Sabres. A promising season from the team will only improve the chances of that happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 4, 2019 Report Share Posted August 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Thorny said: I'm sure Botterill won't have screwed the pooch as bad as Dubas did with Nylander, and stupidly saving Marner for last. He put himself in this position through his chosen order of negotiations. It could get a little tricky with Reinhart up next off-season, but you'd think getting Dahlin locked up next summer is the best strategy. If we have to pay him an exorbitant amount next summer because already contending for a Norris this year, well, good. Wait, what did Dubas screw up with Nylander? That contract is fantastic unless you think he went from being Marner’s statistical twin for two season to a 40-point player in one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumph_communes Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Y’all are putting way too much emphasis on the GMs in these negotiations. Skilled RFAs have all of the bargaining power and if they want to only sign short deals, then that’s what they get. It’s really not up to the GM if Dahlin or Reinhart want to go one route or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 6 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said: Wait, what did Dubas screw up with Nylander? That contract is fantastic unless you think he went from being Marner’s statistical twin for two season to a 40-point player in one season. Nylander 6/6.9 Larkin 6/6.1 Ehlers 7/6 Domi 2/3.1 Drouin 6/5.5 Reinhart 2/3.6 I wouldn’t call it a screw up, and only time will tell. But at the moment it’s probably the least attractive contract among his peers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 hour ago, dudacek said: Nylander 6/6.9 Larkin 6/6.1 Ehlers 7/6 Domi 2/3.1 Drouin 6/5.5 Reinhart 2/3.6 I wouldn’t call it a screw up, and only time will tell. But at the moment it’s probably the least attractive contract among his peers. Drouin's sucks more because he's a substantially worse hockey player than Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Drouin's sucks more because he's a substantially worse hockey player than Willy I think so too, but was that the case last year? (I personally can’t stand Drouin, because he epitomizes the type of player I hate, so I wasn’t sure if that was an objective opinion.) Edited August 5, 2019 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, WildCard said: So much for my “Shattenkirk doesn’t affect Risto” theory. There’s no way Tampa trades for him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Just now, dudacek said: So much for my “Shattenkirk doesn’t affect Risto” theory. There’s no way Tampa trades for him now. Yeah I mean Shattenkirk isn't nearly what Risto is, but as far as strengths and weaknesses go they're the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Just now, dudacek said: So much for my “Shattenkirk doesn’t affect Risto” theory. There’s no way Tampa trades for him now. I don't think they were ever interested in him anyway. The only reason Tampa was ever in this conversation was because the fans saw shiny things they liked on Tampa's roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, darksabre said: I don't think they were ever interested in him anyway. The only reason Tampa was ever in this conversation was because the fans saw shiny things they liked on Tampa's roster. For me it was because of previously rumoured discussions and because he seemed to be a good fit for their needs. Like @WildCard said, everything Shat can bring, Risto can and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 5, 2019 Report Share Posted August 5, 2019 Jason Pominville is currently second in the recent searches on hockeydatabase (2nd in the last 5 minues, 1st in the last hour). Has there been some news on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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