Jalen Ramsey thinks he could play in the NHL with 6 months training

[nfreeman]

On a lighter note:  here is Evander Kane's response to Ramsey:

Quote

"I think I'd be about 1,000 percent times better at his position in six months than he'll be at mine," San Jose Sharks winger Evander Kane said.

 

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

On a lighter note:  here is Evander Kane's response to Ramsey:

 

Love that response, spot on.

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Dude.

That's 2 different threads in which you've imputed -- in the same day! -- racism as the motivation behind the actions of others whom you don't know.

Although you are far from alone in this unfortunate mindset, it is highly destructive and, IMHO, is a big reason that our society finds itself polarized and attacking one other with increasing intensity.

Sir.

Please re-read what I wrote. I  specifically did not impute any racial bias to Eichel. I said the word he used has a certain ... stank to it, based on my experience in eastern Mass. And that his use of it could be a byproduct of where he grew up.

As for the big reasons that our society is so polarized, I’ll just say that I just deleted what I thumbed out and that I am sure our views on such matters are quite different.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Sir.

Please re-read what I wrote. I  specifically did not impute any racial bias to Eichel. I said the word he used has a certain ... stank to it, based on my experience in eastern Mass. And that his use of it could be a byproduct of where he grew up.

As for the big reasons that our society is so polarized, I’ll just say that I just deleted what I thumbed out and that I am sure our views on such matters are quite different.

I read it the same way nfreeman did. You expounded on a specific word that Eichel used, that in the very particular area he grew up in that word has a negative racial connotation. I don't see any other way it could be taken. What was the purpose of you sharing your opinion if it wasn't that?

[Sabel79]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Dude.

That's 2 different threads in which you've imputed -- in the same day! -- racism as the motivation behind the actions of others whom you don't know.

Although you are far from alone in this unfortunate mindset, it is highly destructive and, IMHO, is a big reason that our society finds itself polarized and attacking one other with increasing intensity.

Dude.

It's not as if there isn't a case to be made here.  Would it be easier if we didn't have to think about what we say?  Yes.  But we do, and for perfectly good reasons.  

[erickompositör72]

38 minutes ago, Hank said:

I read it the same way nfreeman did. You expounded on a specific word that Eichel used, that in the very particular area he grew up in that word has a negative racial connotation. I don't see any other way it could be taken. What was the purpose of you sharing your opinion if it wasn't that?

Pointing out coded language is never a bad thing. We should all be ever-aware, as racism does not go away on its own- it requires constant vigilance.

Knowing when that coded language is being used for a certain purpose does take some discernment. Indiscriminate racism accusations of those who use a certain word is problematic, but I don't think Smell was doing that...

Edited September 8, 2018 by erickompositör72

[nfreeman]

For the record:  I think Smell is a very fine and honorable guy.

I object to the notion he expressed in the Bills thread about the anthem protests being code for racist unhappiness with "uppity ________"  Having seen that, followed by the comment about people who refer to athletes as "ignorant" also being driven by racist views, I felt compelled to note what I thought was an unfair assumption -- and one that I think, when voiced/written, has destructive consequences.

Now, is the assumption true in some cases?  Sure it is, and it stinks that that is the case.

But not, I believe, in most cases.  And nothing good results when the vast majority is tarred with the brush of the miscreant small minority.  (And I certainly recognize that one's views on that point may vary, and that there are many other factors that contribute to the problematic state of our society.)

[Hoss]

There is no racism. Just happy people who share the same goes, experiences and love as others.

[Sabel79]

31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

For the record:  I think Smell is a very fine and honorable guy.

I object to the notion he expressed in the Bills thread about the anthem protests being code for racist unhappiness with "uppity ________"  Having seen that, followed by the comment about people who refer to athletes as "ignorant" also being driven by racist views, I felt compelled to note what I thought was an unfair assumption -- and one that I think, when voiced/written, has destructive consequences.

Now, is the assumption true in some cases?  Sure it is, and it stinks that that is the case.

But not, I believe, in most cases.  And nothing good results when the vast majority is tarred with the brush of the miscreant small minority.  (And I certainly recognize that one's views on that point may vary, and that there are many other factors that contribute to the problematic state of our society.)

The assumption that everything is fine and nobody (white) should consider their words or be called out on them when problematic is beyond destructive.  

And honestly, what other explanation is there for the anthem nonsense?

[nfreeman]

24 minutes ago, Hoss said:

There is no racism. Just happy people who share the same goes, experiences and love as others.

 

1 minute ago, Sabel79 said:

The assumption that everything is fine and nobody (white) should consider their words or be called out on them when problematic is beyond destructive.  

And honestly, what other explanation is there for the anthem nonsense?

What is the point of even trying to have a conversation if the responses are just wild overstatements, straw men and sarcasm?

[Sabel79]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

What is the point of even trying to have a conversation if the responses are just wild overstatements, straw men and sarcasm?

You have the luxury of looking at it this way.  Conversation isn't, obviously, going to change your perspective.

[Randall Flagg]

That this conversation is happening in this thread suggests that nfreeman isn't out to lunch, and that perspective is missing from the other half of the conversation too, if any is missing from what he's fleshed out here. 

[erickompositör72]

19 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

The assumption that everything is fine and nobody (white) should consider their words or be called out on them when problematic is beyond destructive.  

And honestly, what other explanation is there for the anthem nonsense?

 

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

What is the point of even trying to have a conversation if the responses are just wild overstatements, straw men and sarcasm?

 

The first part of what Sabel said, I would refine it in this way: people may unwittingly use coded language, with no intention of racism, but their use of said language should still be pointed out, and the problematic nature of such language should be clarified to them.

Unfortunately, many people get offended when it is pointed out that they unwittingly used language that can be problematic.

People may use such language because it is just culturally ingrained, without giving any thought to implications. It doesn't mean they're a bad person for not realizing such language is problematic, but it is harmful when they refuse to see why changing their use of it might be warranted.

 

To the second part of what he said- I think it's a genuine position to have.

[Sabel79]

12 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

That this conversation is happening in this thread suggests that nfreeman isn't out to lunch, and that perspective is missing from the other half of the conversation too, if any is missing from what he's fleshed out here. 

I'm not saying nfreeman is out to lunch or arguing in bad faith, but the reflexive need to stare as hard as we possibly can at anything other than the incredibly large elephant in the room needs to stop.  And those of us who wish to address it aren't wackaloons, either.  

Edited September 8, 2018 by Sabel79

[Hank]

Was Eichels use of the word ignorant not accurate? Is Jalen Ramsey not in fact ignorant about what it takes to be a hockey player? We you try to find racism in everything, it deminishes cases of actual racism. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Hank

[erickompositör72]

7 minutes ago, Hank said:

Was Eichels use of the word ignorant not accurate? Is Jalen Ramsey not in fact ignorant about what it takes to be a hockey player? We you try to find racism in everything, it deminishes cases of actual racism. 

You're failing to see the nuance of what's being expressed. See above. It's not a binary: "racist" or "not racist." It's about undertones in certain language.

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

You're failing to see the nuance of what's being expressed. See above. It's not a binary: "racist" or "not racist." It's about undertones in certain language.

You're right, I'm failing to see the nuance. Maybe that failure is on me. But most of us on here don't live in the buffalo area, let alone Boston. We are spread out all over the world. I for instance live in Tennessee. Pointing out the peculiarity of a small Boston neighborhood using a word as racist slang when that word is very appropriate given in the context it was to a group of people who have no need/use/relevance of a Boston neighborhood peculiarity comes across as more than just trying to educate on what's up to date. 

[That Aud Smell]

11 hours ago, Hank said:

I read it the same way nfreeman did. You expounded on a specific word that Eichel used, that in the very particular area he grew up in that word has a negative racial connotation. I don't see any other way it could be taken. What was the purpose of you sharing your opinion if it wasn't that?

Did you gloss over the part where I said I didn’t think Eichel actually intended the word that way,  whether consciously or subconsciously? Because that’s the part where I specifically did not impute racial bias to Eichel. 

[That Aud Smell]

9 hours ago, nfreeman said:

For the record:  I think Smell is a very fine and honorable guy.

I object to the notion he expressed in the Bills thread about the anthem protests being code for racist unhappiness with "uppity ________"  Having seen that, followed by the comment about people who refer to athletes as "ignorant" also being driven by racist views, I felt compelled to note what I thought was an unfair assumption -- and one that I think, when voiced/written, has destructive consequences.

Now, is the assumption true in some cases?  Sure it is, and it stinks that that is the case.

But not, I believe, in most cases.  And nothing good results when the vast majority is tarred with the brush of the miscreant small minority.  (And I certainly recognize that one's views on that point may vary, and that there are many other factors that contribute to the problematic state of our society.)

Object all you want. IMO: It’s wishful thinking and delusional to think that the reaction to the black kneeling players isn’t largely (yeah, maybe not entirely) rooted in racism. I know enough history. I have my own significant sample size from which to judge. I’m confident and (un)comfortable in my take.

And I acknowledge others feel and think differently. They’re entitled to that, obviously.

[That Aud Smell]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

Was Eichels use of the word ignorant not accurate? Is Jalen Ramsey not in fact ignorant about what it takes to be a hockey player? We you try to find racism in everything, it deminishes cases of actual racism. 

I think the insistence on *not* identifying every single racist aspect of our society, language, etc. is the most significant obstacle to progress. Black writers/thinkers whom I respect will tell you: The thing that’s impeding progress isn’t the overt torch burning hooded racist (or something close to that), it’s the millions of earnest whites who *think* they’re not racist but make dozens of choices, large and small, that perpetuate racist structures in a society built on the same. 

I say that as a self-acknowledged racist. I know I am. I’m working on it, constantly.

[Eleven]

May I suggest the politics club for this discussion?

[That Aud Smell]

@Eleven for Mod. 

[WildCard]

So Eichel is a racist because he grew up in Boston. Got it

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

So Eichel is a racist because he grew up in Boston. Got it

You just aren't nuanced enough to understand bro 

[inkman]

10 hours ago, erickompositör72 said:

 

 

The first part of what Sabel said, I would refine it in this way: people may unwittingly use coded language, with no intention of racism, but their use of said language should still be pointed out, and the problematic nature of such language should be clarified to them.

Unfortunately, many people get offended when it is pointed out that they unwittingly used language that can be problematic.

People may use such language because it is just culturally ingrained, without giving any thought to implications. It doesn't mean they're a bad person for not realizing such language is problematic, but it is harmful when they refuse to see why changing their use of it might be warranted.

 

To the second part of what he said- I think it's a genuine position to have.

This is the first time I realized that poster didn't go by Sabre79.