TO TRADE OR NOT TO TRADE

[nucci]

Depends on the return.  I wouldn't have traded Kane for what the Sabres got for him and I wouldn't trade O'Reilly on a "desperation" deal, either.

:thumbsup:

[Sabre1974]

Here's the thing, pretty much everyone agrees with Botterill's "culture of losing" comments. You don't fix that, you don't fix the team and it doesn't matter who you have or don't have. So how do you do that? They've tinkered and tried and guys like ROR were brought in presumably to be competitive work hard winners, BUT it hasn't worked, so what can you do???

 

The way I see it, there is only one possibility and that is to trade everyone else and build a brand new team around Eichel using just youth and new players. Will it be instant success? No, probably not, but it can remove the culture and we can start moving slowly upwards. 

 

Specifically with ROR there is debate and a level of doubt. Some say he was honest and such, others he is a quitter and so on, you can debate that all summer and beyond with no result. My view would be ANY player where there is doubt of any kind, you try to move him out and bring in unmolded youth. 

 

You keep the players we have, and the results will be the same. 

not sure on this, not sure if he wants out. if i was botts i would be moving risto first and that would depend on getting dahlin. But if ROR doesnt want to be here do we just go our seperate ways??

[Eleven]

Until someone comes in and complains about how "everyone" wants to trade O'Reilly and this whole thing starts all over again.

 

This is the problem with this discussion.

[dudacek]

Interesting fuel from Vogl in the debate:

http://buffalonews.com/2018/04/14/inside-the-sabres-the-curious-case-of-ryan-oreilly/

[darksabre]

Interesting fuel from Vogl in the debate:

http://buffalonews.com/2018/04/14/inside-the-sabres-the-curious-case-of-ryan-oreilly/

Jesus, his hyperbole is worse than the stuff we come up with.

[Rasmus_]

The only way I'm trading him in division is if it's detrimental to the core of Montreal.  It is going to take Poehling, 1st in 2018, 2nd in 2018 or 2019 and another piece.  It's going to hurt them to make this deal.  If we're going to purge, then purge all the way.  Burn it out and make it a clean break.  For all those that are sitting here talking about Ryan O'Reilly, I understand how important to the team.  That he is the best two way player.  However, in order to tear down the roster, you have to include pieces other teams want.  Okposo, Bogosian, Moulson, Pominville, Beaulieu have zero value.  Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Scandella you aren't trading.  That leaves, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, Rodrigues, Bailey, Baptiste, Nylander, and other secondary pieces. 

[PerreaultForever]

not sure on this, not sure if he wants out. if i was botts i would be moving risto first and that would depend on getting dahlin. But if ROR doesnt want to be here do we just go our seperate ways??

I think Risto gets unfairly blamed much like Myers did. In both cases young guys who were way ahead of the curve when they started but expectations were too high as a result and both floundered after rather than getting the slower development D men usually require. Risto should and could still be a great 2nd pairing D man, but not a 35-40 minutes guy or a first pairing "he's our star" kind of guy. Get a better D and let him be who he should be, your 3rd best. 

[LikeEich]

Sign Tavares then trade ROR for Nylander

[Randall Flagg]

My comprehensive lunchtime list of acceptable ROR trades:

 

One for one: McAvoy, Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak, Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Matthews, Barkov, Trocheck, Karlsson, almost but not quite Mark Stone, Backstrom, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Provorov, Jones, Werenski, Hall, Hischier, Slavin, Barzal, Tavares (in a vacuum, not as a pending UFA), Subban, Ekholm, Ellis, Josi, Forsberg, Scheifele, Laine, Trouba, MacKinnon, Tarasenko, Parayko, Pietrangelo, Klingberg, Seguin, P. Kane, Lindholm, Doughty, Kopitar, Gaudreau, Hamilton, McDavid, Dahlin pick

 

With an additional piece: Point, McDonagh, Kadri, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Huberdeau, Ekblad, Stone, Kuznetsov, Giroux, Voracek, Patrick, Panarin, Aho, Pesce, Leddy, Johansen, Turris, Wheeler (age), Ehlers, Dumba, maybe Brodin with a bigger add, Spurgeon, Rantanen, Benn (age), Fowler, Manson, Montour, Burns, Vlasic?, Monahan, Klefbom, Draisaitl, Pettersson, OEL, Keller

 

Multiple lesser pieces: Two of Sergachev/Gourde/Stralman//Palat/Johnson, Carlo+Heinen+Nash, Larkin+Mantha/DeKeyser, Chabot+White+Hoffman, Orlov+Burakovsky+something else, Nutivaara+Carlsson+Bjorkstrand, Staal + Hanifin + Teravainen, Zibanejad + Skjei, Fabbro + Arvidsson, Roslovic + Morrissey + Armia + Lowry (Winnipeg's 4th line is amazing for a 4th line), Eriksson Ek + Granlund, Landeskog + Barrie/Girard, Dunn+Edmundson+Kyrou, Miller/Theodore + Karlsson, Rakell + Larsson, Meier + Pavelski + something, Chychrun + Domi + Dvorak + something

 

Note, I understand that plenty of these have me over-valuing ROR, but I see no reason to trade him unless it clearly makes our team better now/for the foreseeable future, and I think these are the trades that would do that. Some of these players I havent watched closely for a year or two and might be older and worse and I might have missed some up and coming names. But GM, if you ain't prepared to give up this stuff, then off

[pi2000]

My comprehensive lunchtime list of acceptable ROR trades:

 

One for one: McAvoy, Bergeron, Marchand, Pastrnak, Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Matthews, Barkov, Trocheck, Karlsson, almost but not quite Mark Stone, Backstrom, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Provorov, Jones, Werenski, Hall, Hischier, Slavin, Barzal, Tavares (in a vacuum, not as a pending UFA), Subban, Ekholm, Ellis, Josi, Forsberg, Scheifele, Laine, Trouba, MacKinnon, Tarasenko, Parayko, Pietrangelo, Klingberg, Seguin, P. Kane, Lindholm, Doughty, Kopitar, Gaudreau, Hamilton, McDavid, Dahlin pick

 

With an additional piece: Point, McDonagh, Kadri, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Huberdeau, Ekblad, Stone, Kuznetsov, Giroux, Voracek, Patrick, Panarin, Aho, Pesce, Leddy, Johansen, Turris, Wheeler (age), Ehlers, Dumba, maybe Brodin with a bigger add, Spurgeon, Rantanen, Benn (age), Fowler, Manson, Montour, Burns, Vlasic?, Monahan, Klefbom, Draisaitl, Pettersson, OEL, Keller

 

Multiple lesser pieces: Two of Sergachev/Gourde/Stralman//Palat/Johnson, Carlo+Heinen+Nash, Larkin+Mantha/DeKeyser, Chabot+White+Hoffman, Orlov+Burakovsky+something else, Nutivaara+Carlsson+Bjorkstrand, Staal + Hanifin + Teravainen, Zibanejad + Skjei, Fabbro + Arvidsson, Roslovic + Morrissey + Armia + Lowry (Winnipeg's 4th line is amazing for a 4th line), Eriksson Ek + Granlund, Landeskog + Barrie/Girard, Dunn+Edmundson+Kyrou, Miller/Theodore + Karlsson, Rakell + Larsson, Meier + Pavelski + something, Chychrun + Domi + Dvorak + something

 

Note, I understand that plenty of these have me over-valuing ROR, but I see no reason to trade him unless it clearly makes our team better now/for the foreseeable future, and I think these are the trades that would do that. Some of these players I havent watched closely for a year or two and might be older and worse and I might have missed some up and coming names. But GM, if you ain't prepared to give up this stuff, then ###### off

 

Before I comment, I kindly ask that you include the TRpm for each of the individuals you listed above.   Thank You.  

[Randall Flagg]

Before I comment, I kindly ask that you include the TRpm for each of the individuals you listed above.   Thank You.  

I never did get that code running lol

[pi2000]

I never did get that code running lol

 

[North Buffalo]

Oh stop your gonna get impeached anyway... crap no politics :)

[Chris in Syracuse]

After reading comments from Risto and Reinhart and Okposo I do not know what to make of HCPH. The main complaint seems to be too much X and O and thinking. It seems to me they had the exact same complaint with the last coach. These guys need to learn how to play within a system and follow that system and if their skills do not match the system then they need to be moved or you need a new coach really that simple. It is up to the players to learn the system and figure out how their skill set fits. If a player takes it upon himself to freelance he may be improving his own statistics but the whole team suffers. I honestly do not know what the answer is but I sincerely hope that JBOT can figure it out.

[LGR4GM]

Thxs 11, you're right we should discuss it here. Also right, depends on the return.

 

We can't keep bleeding talent. If I can get Tkachuk, juolevi and something I might do it but I'm not trading ROR unless I think the long term (2 years) is better.

[LGR4GM]

Merging on up! 

[Eleven]

Thxs 11, you're right we should discuss it here. Also right, depends on the return.

 

We can't keep bleeding talent. If I can get Tkachuk, juolevi and something I might do it but I'm not trading ROR unless I think the long term (2 years) is better.

 

That's the key.

 

Also, for whomever complained in the other thread that the Sabres are getting fleeced in trades lately:  Miss Darcy yet?

[Sabre1974]

Not so sure whether to keep oreilly. I am thinking keep.

[7+6=13]

I wouldn't let O'Reilly go anywhere.  

[LGR4GM]

My stance has become, at some point we have to retain and stop bleeding talent. I like keeping ROR because he plays the toughest minutes and still produces. He allows us to shelter Casey. He will be tradable down the line if needed. With proper cap management, paying him 7.5 for the next 5 years shouldn't be a problem. The problem year is year 4 when Mittelstadt and Dahlin will need new deals but they will be RFA's so you can work with that. I keep ROR because he makes us better and we desperately need to be better. There is no one behind him to replace his production. 

[jsb]

I get the idea that trading Risto, ROR, Reinhart, Scandella will make the return more but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes us better.  I'm more of the opinion especially now that the burn of last season has healed slightly, to start dumping the bottom half of this roster for serviceable replacements. Hopefully with more speed and skill. GKr is our biggest need and will probably be our best bet to improve drastically in the standings. 

If we get bounce back years from a healthy Nylander and Okposo, our forward ranks aren't nearly as bad as they appeared last year. Dahlin, Scandella and Guhle/McCabe is not a terrible trio on the left side of our D, we just need someone to step up or pickup a top 4 D on the right and this will be the best set of Dmen we've had in quite awhile.

I'm not quite as ready to burn down the house right now and hopefully the winning that #1 pick hasn't blinded me to what needs to be done. 

 

Now that the Penguins are knocked out of the playoffs, there's word that they may make some changes to their roster. Botts needs to possibly pick up a serviceable player from them and not necessarily a star to get the ball rolling but I don't see anything getting done before and after the draft.

[LGR4GM]

I am not counting on Nylander doing anything. He puck watches and floats so much it hurts.