Evander Kane did very well in his 1st playoff game

[Brawndo]

I think they're already growing out of it. Jack was a more mature player this year. Sam figured it out as the season went on.

Risto is a work ethic issue. He doesn't like to be coached. I'm not sure if that's correctable and explains why his game hasn't continued to develop. He's the same, but he could be better.

I have to wonder if the Canucks would want to put Kane into their locker room given the youth on the team come free agency. San Jose was the perfect fit for him

 

To expand further on what Dark said, Kane wasn’t the only influence that got Jack introduced to the WNY Party Scene, his GF knows how to have fun as well.

 

 

And regarding Risto, this is the reason he maybe on the trading block this summer.

[TrueBlueGED]

If Risto is so uncoachable, why did two consecutive coaches keep feeding him 27 minutes per game? I don't have any source on this or anything, it just seems incredibly odd to me; it really strikes me as people coming up with a post hoc explanation for why he hasn't developed me, when occam's razor would suggest maybe he doesn't have any more to give.

[darksabre]

If Risto is so uncoachable, why did two consecutive coaches keep feeding him 27 minutes per game? I don't have any source on this or anything, it just seems incredibly odd to me; it really strikes me as people coming up with a post hoc explanation for why he hasn't developed me, when occam's razor would suggest maybe he doesn't have any more to give.

I think he just goes out there and eats minutes because that's what he feels like doing. He's talented enough to do that. He's also talented enough to do more.

[Weave]

I think they're already growing out of it. Jack was a more mature player this year. Sam figured it out as the season went on.

 

Risto is a work ethic issue. He doesn't like to be coached. I'm not sure if that's correctable and explains why his game hasn't continued to develop. He's the same, but he could be better.

 

I don't understand your extreme dislike for Brian Gionta.  It's a pretty safe bet that the locker room was split because Gio was fighting to reign in the young partiers.  That is exactly what was needed.  in fact, more of it was needed.  We needed (and still do IMO) the equivalent of Rick Nash as well. (not Nash, but someone along those lines)

[Randall Flagg]

I don't understand your extreme dislike for Brian Gionta. It's a pretty safe bet that the locker room was split because Gio was fighting to reign in the young partiers. That is exactly what was needed. in fact, more of it was needed. We needed (and still do IMO) the equivalent of Rick Nash as well. (not Nash, but someone along those lines)

What Rick Nash characteristic do you mean? Is he known as a good locker room guy?

 

I just ask because his hockey is currently falling off of a cliff

[Doohickie]

The kind of characteristic we hoped we'd get from ROR.  Steady-as-she-goes leadership, leadership by example, almost a player-coach.  I think with a bit more talent (on the team) and resulting success, ROR might still be that leader.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Doohickie

[darksabre]

I don't understand your extreme dislike for Brian Gionta.  It's a pretty safe bet that the locker room was split because Gio was fighting to reign in the young partiers.  That is exactly what was needed.  in fact, more of it was needed.  We needed (and still do IMO) the equivalent of Rick Nash as well. (not Nash, but someone along those lines)

Gio was fighting to get people to go along with a known dumpster fire coach. He was the errand boy of Disco Dan. If he had any leadership cred it was immediately lost when he left his teammates behind to follow Don Quixote into the void. 

 

That said, I don't think he had any leadership cred. He was just a vet. Big whoop. No standing in a locker room full of young players who needed someone who actually had some. 

 

I do think the team needed better veteran leadership during the tank and the aftermath. But I don't think all the leadership in the world was going to fix the mess that GMTM and Bylsma made. Those two dopes needed a leader too. 

[Eleven]

Gio was fighting to get people to go along with a known dumpster fire coach. He was the errand boy of Disco Dan. If he had any leadership cred it was immediately lost when he left his teammates behind to follow Don Quixote into the void. 

 

That said, I don't think he had any leadership cred. He was just a vet. Big whoop. No standing in a locker room full of young players who needed someone who actually had some. 

 

I do think the team needed better veteran leadership during the tank and the aftermath. But I don't think all the leadership in the world was going to fix the mess that GMTM and Bylsma made. Those two dopes needed a leader too. 

 

He was the captain of the most storied hockey team on the planet, and you don't think he had any leadership cred?

[darksabre]

He was the captain of the most storied hockey team on the planet, and you don't think he had any leadership cred?

How many Cups did they win?

[Eleven]

How many Cups did they win?

 

If your criterion for who should be the Sabres captain is "how many Cups did they win," then who did you want as captain during the Gionta "administration"?  Let's not get silly, here.

[Weave]

The kind of characteristic we hoped we'd get from ROR. Steady-as-she-goes leadership, leadership by example, almost a player-coach. I think with a bit more talent (on the team) and resulting success, ROR might still be that leader.

This is what I am referring to. We needed more of it, not less. Frankly, the team still needs it.

[Doohickie]

How many Cups did they win?

 

That's a BS question anyway.  "Past performance does not guarantee future results."

[Weave]

Gio was fighting to get people to go along with a known dumpster fire coach. He was the errand boy of Disco Dan. If he had any leadership cred it was immediately lost when he left his teammates behind to follow Don Quixote into the void.

 

That said, I don't think he had any leadership cred. He was just a vet. Big whoop. No standing in a locker room full of young players who needed someone who actually had some.

 

I do think the team needed better veteran leadership during the tank and the aftermath. But I don't think all the leadership in the world was going to fix the mess that GMTM and Bylsma made. Those two dopes needed a leader too.

Gio and ROR were the two most effective players on the team and they were very much doing what the coach asked of them.

 

It is 100% unrealistic to expect a leader to actively undermine his coach, and that is what you wanted out of Gionta? Nuts.

If your criterion for who should be the Sabres captain is "how many Cups did they win," then who did you want as captain during the Gionta "administration"? Let's not get silly, here.

The whole argument is silly. He wanted a stanley cup vet captain that was going to undermine the coach and this was somehow going to teach the kids good things.

[Doohickie]

This is what I am referring to. We needed more of it, not less. Frankly, the team still needs it.

 

Yes, and if the team turns around this year, I think ROR will be a big part of it.  What we look at in the ROR postgame interviews as him being a sad sack, may actually be him literally thinking he did everything he could, the team still not having enough talent/established system yet, but he's not going to call out his teammates in an interview like that.  So he goes the self-immolation route. 

 

I bet you if the Sabres have a good start, you won't see him pounding his chest but rather doling out credit to his teammates.  Because effective leaders take the fall in bad times, and give credit to others in good times.

He wanted a stanley cup vet captain that was going to undermine the coach and this was somehow going to teach the kids good things.

 

Oh, well.... when you put it like that, :blink:

Edited May 11, 2018 by Doohickie

[TrueBlueGED]

Gio and ROR were the two most effective players on the team and they were very much doing what the coach asked of them.

 

It is 100% unrealistic to expect a leader to actively undermine his coach, and that is what you wanted out of Gionta? Nuts.

 

The whole argument is silly. He wanted a stanley cup vet captain that was going to undermine the coach and this was somehow going to teach the kids good things.

Gio wasn't even close to one of the two most effective players on the team. He was downright awful until his minutes got cut way back, and there's a reason he sat most of the year without an NHL contract.

 

On your second point, I agree that it's not realistic to expect him to actively undermine the coach. However, I think there's a middle ground there. He probably could have played a part in bridging the gap and bringing both sides together. But he chose to carry Bylsma's water instead.

[darksabre]

If your criterion for who should be the Sabres captain is "how many Cups did they win," then who did you want as captain during the Gionta "administration"?  Let's not get silly, here.

 

 

That's a BS question anyway.  "Past performance does not guarantee future results."

 

It's also BS to ask me to give a crap about what he did in Montreal. They didn't have any problem moving on from him. Same with NJ. Who willingly jettisons that good of a leader? 

 

Gio and ROR were the two most effective players on the team and they were very much doing what the coach asked of them.

 

It is 100% unrealistic to expect a leader to actively undermine his coach, and that is what you wanted out of Gionta? Nuts.

 

The whole argument is silly. He wanted a stanley cup vet captain that was going to undermine the coach and this was somehow going to teach the kids good things.

That's exactly what I want. A Stanley Cup vet who knows when buttons need to be pushed and doesn't care who's buttons they are. Not some lackey for the administration. Maybe a real locker room leader gets the kids to rally around him and gets Bylsma fired sooner? Maybe a real locker room leader is standing in Terry Pegula's office going "hey, our GM is completely out to lunch. This team is a mess."

 

Gionta will forever be attached to Bylsma for me. Feckless. 

[jsb]

Gio wasn't even close to one of the two most effective players on the team. He was downright awful until his minutes got cut way back, and there's a reason he sat most of the year without an NHL contract.

 

On your second point, I agree that it's not realistic to expect him to actively undermine the coach. However, I think there's a middle ground there. He probably could have played a part in bridging the gap and bringing both sides together. But he chose to carry Bylsma's water instead.

You have no idea what went on behind the scenes nor does anyone else here, your making sh!t up. I don't recall anyone affiliated with the team that bad mouthed Gionta during his stint here. And you have zero knowledge of what conversations went on between Bylsma and Gionta.

[dudacek]

He was the captain of the most storied hockey team on the planet, and you don't think he had any leadership cred?

Does Max Pacioretty?

 

I know some on here will crucify me for this, but Patches would be a great pickup depending on the price.

Don’t want him to lead, just pop in 35 on Jack’s wing.

[Weave]

It's also BS to ask me to give a crap about what he did in Montreal. They didn't have any problem moving on from him. Same with NJ. Who willingly jettisons that good of a leader?

 

That's exactly what I want. A Stanley Cup vet who knows when buttons need to be pushed and doesn't care who's buttons they are. Not some lackey for the administration. Maybe a real locker room leader gets the kids to rally around him and gets Bylsma fired sooner? Maybe a real locker room leader is standing in Terry Pegula's office going "hey, our GM is completely out to lunch. This team is a mess."

 

Gionta will forever be attached to Bylsma for me. Feckless.

Idealistic and unrealistic. That player does not exist.

Does Max Pacioretty?

 

I know some on here will crucify me for this, but Patches would be a great pickup depending on the price.

Don’t want him to lead, just pop in 35 on Jack’s wing.

I’d take him as well. We don’t have enough top 6 wingers to turn our noses up at Patches.

[TrueBlueGED]

You have no idea what went on behind the scenes nor does anyone else here, your making sh!t up. I don't recall anyone affiliated with the team that bad mouthed Gionta during his stint here. And you have zero knowledge of what conversations went on between Bylsma and Gionta.

Neither does anyone else opining on the quality of his leadership.

[LGR4GM]

You have no idea what went on behind the scenes nor does anyone else here, your making sh!t up. I don't recall anyone affiliated with the team that bad mouthed Gionta during his stint here. And you have zero knowledge of what conversations went on between Bylsma and Gionta.

I do know one thing. Evander Kane was bad leader who helped show Reinhart and Eichel the fun side of being a rich hockey player when they needed to focus on actually being good hockey players. I think Kane's waning influence helps explain Reinhart's rise and also why Eichel seemed to take a better approach following Housley's private skate. I don't believe for 1 second the coaching staff and Botterill didn't know about the partying going on or that lack of game preparation. 

 

PS. I know you were specifically talking about Gionta and Bylsma stuff but I thought it was a good segue back to Kane. 

[Randall Flagg]

Sure, adding Pacioretty for free would be an upgrade. But what he would cost versus what he would bring, keep that loser the away from my team. 

[dudacek]

Sure, adding Pacioretty for free would be an upgrade. But what he would cost versus what he would bring, keep that loser the ###### away from my team.

 

Expected this

As We’ve said, no use for an automatic 30/30 guy his entire career at our weakest position on a $4 million contract?

He should have never been the captain and only got stuck there because Therrien hated Subban.

 

He’s no top forward, but as a 4-5 guy beside an ace centre?

Free from the oven that is being expected to carry Montreal he will respond like Kessel freed from Toronto.

Edited May 11, 2018 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

And what is his trade value? What do I need to give to acquire him? 

[dudacek]

Good question. Evander Kane? Rick Nash?

He’s coming off the worst season of his career.

Edited May 11, 2018 by dudacek