Neo Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 8 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said: But preseason performance literally means nothing to me in the grand scheme of things. Why disavow a method of analysis that’s imperfect? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Neo said: Why disavow a method of analysis that’s imperfect? Hear, hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Neo said: Why disavow a method of analysis that’s imperfect? There's a difference between being imperfect and without value. It's pretty useless to evaluate individual performance in a competitive sport when the teams aren't actually competing. Preseason games are essentially extravagant practices. So they can be used to compare performance versus teammates (ie. Allen looks better than McCarron or Miller looks better than Ducasse), but we're not going to glean any useful insights for how good a player is going to perform in the regular season from a league-wide perspective. Sure we can compare Allen to McCarron and Peterman but we really can't compare him to Mayfield et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Neo said: Why disavow a method of analysis that’s imperfect? 2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said: Hear, hear. Correlation and the lack thereof between preseason and regular season versus the football analytics which have no QB's with Josh Allen's college numbers making it in the NFL. Again, there is an exception to the rules for everything and Allen could be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said: There's a difference between being imperfect and without value. It's pretty useless to evaluate individual performance in a competitive sport when the teams aren't actually competing. Preseason games are essentially extravagant practices. So they can be used to compare performance versus teammates (ie. Allen looks better than McCarron or Miller looks better than Ducasse), but we're not going to glean any useful insights for how good a player is going to perform in the regular season from a league-wide perspective. Sure we can compare Allen to McCarron and Peterman but we really can't compare him to Mayfield et al. I understand the point about how incredibly different the two settings are (preseason, regular season), but I can't get on board with the idea that what Allen's showing in the preseason is without value in terms of evaluating him. It's also an overreach to say that teams aren't competing in the preseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: I understand the point about how incredibly different the two settings are (preseason, regular season), but I can't get on board with the idea that what Allen's showing in the preseason is without value in terms of evaluating him. It's also an overreach to say that teams aren't competing in the preseason. The biggest knock on the preseason is that the teams don't scheme and gameplan, at least as much. So in that way its not a good place to judge an entire team, because they're not running what they're going to run, with whom they'll be running it, during the season. However, there is at least SOMETHING to be gotten out of individual performances. Still, the QB is in many ways a reactive position based on what the defense is giving him, so its still not super helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, sabills said: The biggest knock on the preseason is that the teams don't scheme and gameplan, at least as much. So in that way its not a good place to judge an entire team, because they're not running what they're going to run, with whom they'll be running it, during the season. However, there is at least SOMETHING to be gotten out of individual performances. Still, the QB is in many ways a reactive position based on what the defense is giving him, so its still not super helpful. That's a lot of what I'm getting at. There were knocks on Allen's mechanics and accuracy. It's fair to evaluate whether he's made progress on those issues in the context of preseason games. And, yes: It's a different story once the proverbial bullets start flying for real. But is it "without value" to assess how Allen's coming along with certain isolated physiokinetic (maybe a made-up word) aspects of his own game? I keep reading Twittersphere people who hated the pick saying "well, I'll grant him this: His footwork is way better than it was. And it's resulting in some better accuracy." Is the theory that all such improvements could vanish once he gets in a regular season game? I don't buy it. He will almost certainly struggle mentally in those situations, but if his mechanics care getting fixed, then they're getting fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: That's a lot of what I'm getting at. There were knocks on Allen's mechanics and accuracy. It's fair to evaluate whether he's made progress on those issues in the context of preseason games. And, yes: It's a different story once the proverbial bullets start flying for real. But is it "without value" to assess how Allen's coming along with certain isolated physiokinetic (maybe a made-up word) aspects of his own game? I keep reading Twittersphere people who hated the pick saying "well, I'll grant him this: His footwork is way better than it was. And it's resulting in some better accuracy." Is the theory that all such improvements could vanish once he gets in a regular season game? I don't buy it. He will almost certainly struggle mentally in those situations, but if his mechanics care getting fixed, then they're getting fixed. I'd agree that, if nothing else, mechanics are something you can assess in a preseason game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Speaking of which, for anyone who has The Athletic, here is a great breakdown on Allen's game so far in the preseason by the guy from Yards Per Pass, a guy who's been doing play breakdown posts on twitter for a while. Its a really good peice:https://theathletic.com/482588/2018/08/21/the-game-plan-for-josh-allens-first-start-as-a-pro/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said: I understand the point about how incredibly different the two settings are (preseason, regular season), but I can't get on board with the idea that what Allen's showing in the preseason is without value in terms of evaluating him. It's also an overreach to say that teams aren't competing in the preseason. I think it has value when comparing it to his college tape but not necessarily when saying, he did good in preseason so will in the regular season. The good part in my mind is that Allen looks better than his college tape and that's a great thing to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 The Incognito story gets stranger by the minute. Apparently he demanded they cut off his dad's head for research purposes, and then proceeded to become very violent and threaten people with the 5 guns he did indeed (legally) have in his car https://nypost.com/2018/08/21/richie-incognito-wanted-dead-dads-head-cut-off-before-arrest/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, WildCard said: The Incognito story gets stranger by the minute. Apparently he demanded they cut off his dad's head for research purposes, and then proceeded to become very violent and threaten people with the 5 guns he did indeed (legally) have in his car https://nypost.com/2018/08/21/richie-incognito-wanted-dead-dads-head-cut-off-before-arrest/ "Incognito’s family had planned to keep him away from his father’s funeral due to concerns over his behavior, one staffer explained to police." Can you imagine? He really needs help. Otherwise we're going to have another Spinner Spencer situation and no one wants that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, Eleven said: "Incognito’s family had planned to keep him away from his father’s funeral due to concerns over his behavior, one staffer explained to police." Can you imagine? He really needs help. Otherwise we're going to have another Spinner Spencer situation and no one wants that. Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Correlation and the lack thereof between preseason and regular season versus the football analytics which have no QB's with Josh Allen's college numbers making it in the NFL. Again, there is an exception to the rules for everything and Allen could be it. I am happy to read that you are not disavowing a method of analysis that's imperfect. I have no view on Allen that's worth publishing and mentioned him not in my post. I think you read a view on Allen into what I wrote. My comment was inspired by categorizing one method of analysis as imperfect, defending it as a tool, and simultaneously categorizing another method as imperfect, and dismissing it as a tool ... all the while arguing that imperfection isn't eliminating. The topic interested me generally. The reasoning interested me greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, WildCard said: Who? Former Sabre with serious and untreated mental issues. Faced all sorts of charges (kidnapping, murder, etc.) and was acquitted; had substance problems and died after being shot during a robbery. There was a great feature in the News several years ago, but it's unavailable now, probably because it actually was good writing and took a deep dive into the topic. You'll have to be satisfied with wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 And on top of all the craziness for Incognito right now, you have to also consider the added stress from his father dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Has anyone been watching Hard Knocks on HBO? I am sure glad the Bills no longer have anything to do with Gregg Williams. He comes off like the bad guy from an Oklahoma/Mississippi crime noir movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, WildCard said: Who? Oh, my ..... Google, and you are in for a treat. A sad treat, but a treat nonetheless. Brian "Spinner" Spencer and his dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Eleven said: Former Sabre with serious and untreated mental issues. Faced all sorts of charges (kidnapping, murder, etc.) and was acquitted; had substance problems and died after being shot during a robbery. There was a great feature in the News several years ago, but it's unavailable now, probably because it actually was good writing and took a deep dive into the topic. You'll have to be satisfied with wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Spencer Thanks. I read the wiki, how does he get accused and then acquitted of kidnapping? That seems like one of those crimes that's pretty black and white 2 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Has anyone been watching Hard Knocks on HBO? I am sure glad the Bills no longer have anything to do with Gregg Williams. He comes off like the bad guy from an Oklahoma/Mississippi crime noir movie. Gerg Williams and Hugh Jackson are jokes. Well, more Jackson than Greg. Throw in Todd Hayley, that s$hole Jarvis Landry, a 1st overall QB doing underwear modeling, and an 0-16 season, and the Browns are a freaking sht show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 minute ago, WildCard said: Thanks. I read the wiki, how does he get accused and then acquitted of kidnapping? That seems like one of those crimes that's pretty black and white This might provide more information? I don't have time to read it. https://www.si.com/vault/1987/05/11/115348/the-case-against-brian-spencer-one-womans-testimony-could-mean-a-death-sentence-for-a-former-hockey-player-accused-of-murder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, LGR4GM said: Correlation and the lack thereof between preseason and regular season versus the football analytics which have no QB's with Josh Allen's college numbers making it in the NFL. Again, there is an exception to the rules for everything and Allen could be it. There are QBs with numbers similar to Allen’s who have made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Just now, Hoss said: There are QBs with numbers similar to Allen’s who have made it. In the modern era, who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Eleven said: "Incognito’s family had planned to keep him away from his father’s funeral due to concerns over his behavior, one staffer explained to police." Can you imagine? He really needs help. Otherwise we're going to have another Spinner Spencer situation and no one wants that. It unfortunately does seem like this is on a fast track to a bad ending. Probably the effects of a toxic combination of CTE, PEDs, stress and depression. Come on Richie. You can get it together. People love you and are counting on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Just now, nfreeman said: It unfortunately does seem like this is on a fast track to a bad ending. Probably the effects of a toxic combination of CTE, PEDs, stress and depression. Come on Richie. You can get it together. People love you and are counting on you. Mean I guess I'll be that guy but I know quite a few people that think Richie is a real POS, even some posters on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, WildCard said: Mean I guess I'll be that guy but I know quite a few people that think Richie is a real POS, even some posters on here I think he's a POS, but I still want him to get better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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