Game discussion thread GDT: Bruins @ Sabres 12/19/2017, 7:30pm NBCS

[That Aud Smell]

First she wanted to be Governor of Minny. Either way, if she wins, it might be a nice out for Phil. "What's best for my family."

 

Holy smokes - that would be banana pants for the family. Unless they're married a la the Clintons -- like, not really married at all.

 

FTR I think the USA Hockey and former Sabre boxes trumped any "jib cutting" boxes.

 

Thank you. I just tried to PayPal you your spokesman fee, but you blocked me????!!!

 

I think that's right.

 

Ha!

 

Right but would assume that's a lot less high profile / stressful. 

 

Precisely. In any case, she may be unlikely to win. Such a run might be more stepping up to the plate as a dutiful soldier of the State GOP.

 

I think what TP said about McD being religious was more in the context of McD being a person of good character -- i.e. character being the key factor, not devoutness.  TP also emphasized McD's attention to detail much more than he did character or faith.

 

As for disputing the point -- the point I am disputing is that devoutness played any kind of significant role in the choice.  I continue to think this is nonsense and not supported by the facts.

 

And as you noted there is no indication that TP played much if any of a role in selecting Housley -- let alone that any of the factors mentioned in PA's post were considered.

 

Terry had a select few things to say about the new de facto chief officer of his $1.4B venture. One of the things he said was that he was faith-based. Far from being nothing, that is quite something. Ignore it if you so choose. You know what they say about the house of illusion -- cheap to build, drafty to live in.

 

The only question that remains for me is this: does Sam belong in the NHL?

 

Just a great post here.

 

When his brother played his way out of the NHL, I became genuinely concerned with whether these hockey legacy boys were the wrong sorts of players. There's still time for Sam, but he's running out of it.

[PASabreFan]

And as you noted there is no indication that TP played much if any of a role in selecting Housley -- let alone that any of the factors mentioned in PA's post were considered.

 

I am simply responding to your trollish and baseless assertion that TP applied silly criteria in the selection of Housley.

Just what criteria do you think Pegula uses when hiring people. Cliff Benson, Ted Black, Ken Sawyer, Craig Patrick, Joe Battista, Lindy Ruff, Darcy Regier, Pat LaFontaine, Tim Murray, Ted Nolan, Ron Rolston, Dan Bylsma, Jason Botterill, Phil Housley, Russ Brandon. And that's just the Sabres. Does it look like his criteria are working to bring the best hockey people in the world to Hockey Heaven? Terry's criteria are indeed silly, it's just a matter of whether to throw Christian faith and political conservatism into the mix.

[MattPie]

8 empty net goals. That is an indictment on every single player.

 

Considering how much time the Sabres have played with an Empty net, they're doing pretty well. Figure two minutes for every loss, that's like 40 minutes of EN play, and before last night only 6 goals against.

[dudacek]

 

Just a great post here.

 

When his brother played his way out of the NHL, I became genuinely concerned with whether these hockey legacy boys were the wrong sorts of players. There's still time for Sam, but he's running out of it.

The Sam Reinhart is not an NHLer/should be in the minors thing has gone over the top.

 

The difference between Sam and Griffin Reinhart is that Griffin is 24 and has never made the NHL.

Sam was a top-six regular for two years, averaging 20 goals and 45 points at age 20 and 21.

 

He’s having a terrible season. I think there should be legitimate concern that he will end up having a Dave Gagner-esque career.

But I’m not sure why the past 30 games carries more weight than the previous 150.

 

He is an NHL hockey player, who - even right now - is as good or better than Wilson, Josefson, Larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Rodrigues, Griffith or dozens of similar players who could fill spots on the bottom of our roster.

[TrueBlueGED]

The Sam Reinhart is not an NHLer/should be in the minors thing has gone over the top.

 

The difference between Sam and Griffin Reinhart is that Griffin is 24 and has never made the NHL.

Sam was a top-six regular for two years, averaging 20 goals and 45 points at age 20 and 21.

 

He’s having a terrible season. I think there should be legitimate concern that he will end up having a Dave Gagner-esque career.

But I’m not sure why the past 30 games carries more weight than the previous 150.

 

He is an NHL hockey player, who - even right now - is as good or better than Wilson, Josefson, Larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Rodrigues, Griffith or dozens of similar players who could fill spots on the bottom of our roster.

 

Thank you. The recency bias is out of control right now.

 

(See also: Kane is better than O'Reilly)

[darksabre]

The Sam Reinhart is not an NHLer/should be in the minors thing has gone over the top.

 

The difference between Sam and Griffin Reinhart is that Griffin is 24 and has never made the NHL.

Sam was a top-six regular for two years, averaging 20 goals and 45 points at age 20 and 21.

 

He’s having a terrible season. I think there should be legitimate concern that he will end up having a Dave Gagner-esque career.

But I’m not sure why the past 30 games carries more weight than the previous 150.

 

He is an NHL hockey player, who - even right now - is as good or better than Wilson, Josefson, Larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Rodrigues, Griffith or dozens of similar players who could fill spots on the bottom of our roster.

Sam Reinhart as a passenger is not acceptable. A player cannot put up two 40+ point seasons and then suddenly fall off a cliff.

 

He'll be lucky to crack 30 this year.

 

That's a problem on this team. 

 

If Sam Reinhart can't fill Brian f*cking Gionta's skates, then what good is he really? 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Samson will be fine.

 

All the players, especially the good ones, as it is more noticeable, are having a very difficult time adjusting to the new coach and the way he wants the team to play.

[jsb]

Thank you. The recency bias is out of control right now.

 

(See also: Kane is better than O'Reilly)

So you decided to join the crowd huh???

[nfreeman]

I think there is a real possibility that Rodrigues is a better NHL player than Reino.

[darksabre]

All I see from Reinhart is another player who is failing outside of Dan Bylsma's protective cocoon.

[jsb]

I think ERod is just the new toy in the playroom that adds speed and quickness to the lineup. So he appears shiny, he gets bumped off the puck to easy but he does give the appearance of giving max effort which Sam rarely does.

[TrueBlueGED]

So you decided to join the crowd huh???

 

What crowd? The crowd that says Kane is having a better season than O'Reilly? I couldn't imagine anyone challenging that assertion. But arguing Kane is a better player, in my view, remains hogwash. O'Reilly was far better than Kane the previous two season, and I'd argue the previous several before arriving in Buffalo. I'm not one to let this season erase that.

I think there is a real possibility that Rodrigues is a better NHL player than Reino.

 

Greater than 0? Sure. But I don't think the chances of that are more than 10%.

[Sabel79]

I think ERod is just the new toy in the playroom that adds speed and quickness to the lineup. So he appears shiny, he gets bumped off the puck to easy but he does give the appearance of giving max effort which Sam rarely does.

It was noticeable to me last night how weak on his skates he is.

[jsb]

Thank you. The recency bias is out of control right now.

 

 

This crowd, by the way I like ROR but he appears to have lost a step or is in desperate need of new surroundings. Either way his better days in a Sabres uniform is past.

[nfreeman]

Greater than 0? Sure. But I don't think the chances of that are more than 10%.

 

I think for the 5-year period starting this year, the odds are 25% or greater that ERod is better than Reino.

[dudacek]

I think there is a real possibility that Rodrigues is a better NHL player than Reino.

  

 

Little guy skates fast works hard must be good. The Gerbe effect?

Given his prospensity for overextending himself and the fact that he is the weakest Sabre on the puck since the immortal Marc-Andre Gragnani, I kinda doubt he’ll hit 30 points, let alone the 40 Reinhart hit in his first two seasons. But I hope you’re right about him. We need a positive surprise.

 

All I see from Reinhart is another player who is failing outside of Dan Bylsma's protective cocoon.

  

 

This is very astute. I hope there is a one step back for two steps forward thing going on here - with many Sabres. I think the flaw of the Tim Murray era was less about acquiring talent and more about not developing it.

 

I think ERod is just the new toy in the playroom that adds speed and quickness to the lineup. So he appears shiny, he gets bumped off the puck to easy but he does give the appearance of giving max effort which Sam rarely does.

So I’m not alone.

[Robviously]

I think ERod is just the new toy in the playroom that adds speed and quickness to the lineup. So he appears shiny, he gets bumped off the puck to easy but he does give the appearance of giving max effort which Sam rarely does.

Maybe.  But in the games I've watched, it's not so much that he's quick (although that's really noticeable on this team), it's also that he makes smart plays.  In the game where he scored 2 goals, there was a play where he was skating with the puck at the top of the circle and suddenly realized there was enough gap to split the defense and head straight to the net -- which he did and created an opportunity.  I'm so used to Sabres players just making the safe/predictable play there; it's like they're not even looking for opportunities.

 

In general, I think he has good awareness.  He's good at anticipating the play both with and without the puck.  It's noticeable (to me, and so far, anyways) and I'm not sure it's something you can teach.  He might end up being a pretty nice player for us.

[nfreeman]

Maybe.  But in the games I've watched, it's not so much that he's quick (although that's really noticeable on this team), it's also that he makes smart plays.  In the game where he scored 2 goals, there was a play where he was skating with the puck at the top of the circle and suddenly realized there was enough gap to split the defense and head straight to the net -- which he did and created an opportunity.  I'm so used to Sabres players just making the safe/predictable play there; it's like they're not even looking for opportunities.

 

In general, I think he has good awareness.  He's good at anticipating the play both with and without the puck.  It's noticeable (to me, and so far, anyways) and I'm not sure it's something you can teach.  He might end up being a pretty nice player for us.

 

Yes indeedly.  Speed, quickness, want-to and smarts.

 

And:  potential chemistry with Jackie boy.

BTW:  Reino has zero goals and 1 assist in his last 12 games.

[Thorny]

Thought it was a good game.

 

Really enjoy watching Antipin and Beaulieu. We have some speed on the back end when they play.

 

Sam is not a tire fire right now, just hasn't filled the #2 overall pick shoes we came to expect. Larsson and Girgensons are playing  just as low compared to expectations. Maybe none of them are point a game players, but one of the three should have a point in a game.

  

 

No, he's objectively a tire fire this season. He's on pace for 27 points. That's pathetic, not just for a 2 overall, but for a top 5/10 pick in their third season.

 

Nice segue into the Sam Reinhart conundrum.

Pominville is essentially playing the same role Sam did last year, and about as effectively.

Am I the only one who has noticed Sam moving his feet more, and protecting the puck better along the wall?

It’s pretty clear the coaching staff has been pushing him to play more like a winger is expected to play in Housley’s system.

It’s also pretty clear he doesn’t have the best skill set for it; ideally you’re big and fast like Kane and Pouliot, but most especially fast.

I think the plan is to put Sam into situations where he has to assert himself more, be the guy, but it seems to be more clear by the day that he can’t do that at this level.

My question is are they squandering what he can do in a bid to develop him into something he’s not?

The problem is we are runnng out of places to play him. Couldn't succeed at centre, failing now at wing, where is he supposed to play?

 

If the only place he can succeed on this team is getting propped up by Eichel, no thanks.

 

The Sam Reinhart is not an NHLer/should be in the minors thing has gone over the top.

The difference between Sam and Griffin Reinhart is that Griffin is 24 and has never made the NHL.

Sam was a top-six regular for two years, averaging 20 goals and 45 points at age 20 and 21.

He’s having a terrible season. I think there should be legitimate concern that he will end up having a Dave Gagner-esque career.

But I’m not sure why the past 30 games carries more weight than the previous 150.

He is an NHL hockey player, who - even right now - is as good or better than Wilson, Josefson, Larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Rodrigues, Griffith or dozens of similar players who could fill spots on the bottom of our roster.

Because the league is only getting faster. It's faster this year than last. It's entirely possible that as the game gets faster, Reinhart just doesn't have the skating to keep up. Or the work ethic.

 

---

 

I agree with mörk.

[dudacek]

I think if you looked at his career, it is less a case of his position and more a case of Reinhart failing with poor players and succeeding with good ones. He’s kinda like the antithesis of (the concept of) Evander Kane.

[Thorny]

I think if you looked at his career, it is less a case of his position and more a case of Reinhart failing with poor players and succeeding with good ones. He’s kinda like the antithesis of (the concept of) Evander Kane.

But he hasn't done much of anything this year, regardless of linemates.

 

I keep coming back to his skating.

 

He had a nice backhand dish to Nolan to set up a chance yesterday. He has the hands. He's just almost never in a position to use them. It's not coming from a place of anger or even frustration at this point, I am just severely doubting his ability to play the NHL game in its current form.

 

I think he's the type of player that would light up the AHL, but the current iteration of NHL play has passed him by.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[That Aud Smell]

When his brother played his way out of the NHL, I became genuinely concerned with whether these hockey legacy boys were the wrong sorts of players. There's still time for Sam, but he's running out of it.

 

This was a bit strong.

 

The Sam Reinhart is not an NHLer/should be in the minors thing has gone over the top.

 

The difference between Sam and Griffin Reinhart is that Griffin is 24 and has never made the NHL.

Sam was a top-six regular for two years, averaging 20 goals and 45 points at age 20 and 21.

 

He’s having a terrible season. I think there should be legitimate concern that he will end up having a Dave Gagner-esque career.

But I’m not sure why the past 30 games carries more weight than the previous 150.

 

He is an NHL hockey player, who - even right now - is as good or better than Wilson, Josefson, Larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Rodrigues, Griffith or dozens of similar players who could fill spots on the bottom of our roster.

 

This was more than fair.

 

Thank you. The recency bias is out of control right now.

 

(See also: Kane is better than O'Reilly)

 

And this was maybe a slight over-correction.

 

My truth: Sam Reinhart may not be fine. A'tall.

 

I still think he can be a good top (middle?)-6 NHL forward.

 

But right now? The jury is out.

[Thorny]

The Sam Reinhart is not an NHLer/should be in the minors thing has gone over the top.

The difference between Sam and Griffin Reinhart is that Griffin is 24 and has never made the NHL.

Sam was a top-six regular for two years, averaging 20 goals and 45 points at age 20 and 21.

He’s having a terrible season. I think there should be legitimate concern that he will end up having a Dave Gagner-esque career.

But I’m not sure why the past 30 games carries more weight than the previous 150.

He is an NHL hockey player, who - even right now - is as good or better than Wilson, Josefson, Larsson, Girgensons, Nolan, Rodrigues, Griffith or dozens of similar players who could fill spots on the bottom of our roster.

This is in reference to Max Reinhart, correct? I believe he is the one that played himself out of the league.

 

Griffin has only started that process.

[dudacek]

I was writing about Griffin; that’s who I thought Smell was referring to as well.

Max never was and never will be an NHLer, few people expected him to.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Mick O’Manly

[Thorny]

I'm confused then, I thought Griffin made the NHL?

 

Checked: only 37 games. I suppose that barely counts.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Bjorn Borg