WTF is wrong with this team?

[Drunkard]

Waiting for the inevitable excuses of us not being cup contenders yet, new system, good teams have had bad starts, blah, blah, blah...

 

Because you're not allowed to be upset if your team comes out and looks like an AHL squad at best. Not allowed to be upset when your vets look like they are showing no effort. This fan base has been abused and taken advantage of so long that they make constant excuses for it like some domestic abuse victim that refuses to leave.

 

He only hit you cause he loves you, right?

 

Who is telling you that you can't be upset? I don't think any one is happy with their play so far and you can easily tell by the general feeling of this board. Most people fall into a handful of categories:

 

1. Pissed off

2. Near suicidal

3. Apathetic

4. Unjustifyingly Optimistic

5. Taking the wait and see approach

 

I toggle between 3 and 5 personally. The team is a hot pile of garbage so far but it's really early. If they still look like this in November, I'll be worried, but then again I'm not spending any money towards the team right now (no Center Ice, no tickets, no merchandise) so it's much easier not to lose my over their garbage play.

 

As for what you can do about it as a fan there's really only a few options.

 

1. Vent about it on here (accomplishes nothing)

2. Vent about it on facebook, twitter, other message boards, etc. (accomplishes nothing)

3. Write a sternly worded letter to the team, your Congressman, or whomever you think will pretend to care (accomplishes nothing)

4. Stop spending money on the team (accomplishes nothing in the short term, may force changes in the long term or might just hurt the team financially)

5. Take the optimistic approach, keep supporting the team financially, and hope this is just a rough patch (accomplishes nothing)

 

In a nutshell there's really nothing the fans can do, besides voting with your wallet.

[Doohickie]

I'm wondering if there is too much emphasis on skill with this squad. I'm not looking for Adam Mairs to be acquired, but there is something missing.

 

That's kind of what happened in EDM, wasn't it?  They had so many high draft pics where they chose the best scoring forward available, then didn't have enough balance i their lineup?

 

I think the Sabres are better balanced than that. 

 

What I read into ROR's comments about not doing anything good, about not knowing what he's doing, points directly back at the new system.  ROR is putting the heat on himself, but a fair amount of that is probably a complaint that his teammates aren't where they're supposed to be.  When you know what you're doing and your linemates don't, you call them out in the dressing room but not to the press.  So he puts the blame on himself.  Yes, he shares the blame but I'm sure there's plenty to go around.

[Randall Flagg]

We saw the same thing here when the tank started. From both sides.

 

Same as it ever was....

 

I'm wondering if there is too much emphasis on skill with this squad. I'm not looking for Adam Mairs to be acquired, but there is something missing.

I loved Eichel's penalty in the first game when he threw the Montreal player to the ground. That Eichel disappeared though

Babcock is clearly better than Housley and Morgan Reily is better than Risto.  Sam Reinhart is a poor mans Tim Connolly.( Tim was 5th pick overall) We are not in the same league as the leafs.  Our 2nd best player is a free agent after this year and may not resign.  It is not a pretty picture.  We are a very wimpy team except for Kane and Nolan.  Kane will likely be gone and Nolan shouldn't be on the ice

I'm not sure that I take Rielly over Risto, but watching the Leafs a little more closely, Gardiner is developing into a helluva d-man and might be their best one.

[CallawaySabres]

Waiting for the inevitable excuses of us not being cup contenders yet, new system, good teams have had bad starts, blah, blah, blah...

 

Because you're not allowed to be upset if your team comes out and looks like an AHL squad at best. Not allowed to be upset when your vets look like they are showing no effort. This fan base has been abused and taken advantage of so long that they make constant excuses for it like some domestic abuse victim that refuses to leave.

 

He only hit you cause he loves you, right?

 

Bingo, and for the 100th time, it's not the losses, this team flat out sucks with no effort.

[PASabreFan]

I loved Eichel's penalty in the first game when he threw the Montreal player to the ground. That Eichel disappeared though

That Eichel got a penalty. And then sat in the shootout (I'm not saying Housley was punishing him for it).

 

I am really obsessing about that coach's call and worrying that it turned off Eichel. It truly was one of the most ham-handed coaching decisions in a long time. The guy just signed the deal of a lifetime, cementing his boyhood dream. The fans wanted to see it, and I have little doubt Jack would have delivered. Instead... there goes Vaclav Varada in on goal.

 

It took the coach one night to show he's a humorless dude who doesn't care about the paying customer. Just pull out the little card and coach by the numbers. I'm sure the basement dwellers shouted with glee, anyway.

Edited October 11, 2017 by PASabreFan

[darksabre]

That Eichel got a penalty. And then sat in the shootout (I'm not saying Housley was punishing him for it).

 

I am really obsessing about that coach's call and worrying that it turned off Eichel. It truly was one of the most ham-handed coaching decisions in a long time. The guy just signed the deal of a lifetime, cementing his boyhood dream. The fans wanted to see it, and I have little doubt Jack would have delivered. Instead... there goes Vaclav Varada in on goal.

Little doubt Jack would deliver? Have you SEEN his shootout numbers?

[PASabreFan]

Little doubt Jack would deliver? Have you SEEN his shootout numbers?

It was his moment. He would have scored.

[Samson's Flow]

Little doubt Jack would deliver? Have you SEEN his shootout numbers?

We haven't been good at shootouts as a team for a long time, both in goal and forwards scoring. But you send out your best players and hope for the best IMO.

[Drunkard]

Little doubt Jack would deliver? Have you SEEN his shootout numbers?

 

But he just signed an $80 million contract. Doing so is scientifically proven to increase your shootout numbers from anywhere from 50 to 100%. It's science.

[qwksndmonster]

We haven't been good at shootouts as a team for a long time, both in goal and forwards scoring. But you send out your best players and hope for the best IMO.

I mean, Housely did send out his best shootout players (sans Risto)

[darksabre]

We haven't been good at shootouts as a team for a long time, both in goal and forwards scoring. But you send out your best players and hope for the best IMO.

Nah. Not from what we've seen from Jack in the shootout. Dude is miserable. I wish it were different.

[Doohickie]

I am really obsessing about that coach's call and worrying that it turned off Eichel. It truly was one of the most ham-handed coaching decisions in a long time.

 

Let him earn it.  Seriously, I'm kind of tired of saying he was a high draft pick, a $10M player.  He should be treated like anyone else.  If he gets his feelings hurt and it negatively affects his performance, he's not worth the Tank, the pick that was spent on him, or the money the team will be spending on him.  Stop coddling him; make him work for his ice time like every other player in the league.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Doohickie

[LGR4GM]

Let him earn it.  Seriously, I'm kind of tired of saying he was a high draft pick, a $10M player.  He should be treated like anyone else.  If he gets his feelings hurt and it negatively affects his performance, he's not worth the Tank, the pick that was spent on him, or the money the team will be spending on him.  Stop coddling him; make him work for his ice time like every other player in the league.

Yup. 

[Taro T]

Let him earn it.  Seriously, I'm kind of tired of saying he was a high draft pick, a $10M player.  He should be treated like anyone else.  If he gets his feelings hurt and it negatively affects his performance, he's not worth the Tank, the pick that was spent on him, or the money the team will be spending on him.  Stop coddling him; make him work for his ice time like every other player in the league.

Fine. How did Reinhart "earn" his shot? By not getting his stick on a puck that had an open net in front of it?

 

Pominville scored twice. Josefson was brought in for shootouts. Those 2 make sense.

 

What did Sam do to earn a SO attempt over Kane, Griffith, or Eichel Thursday night? Going off historical #'s, which Housley claimed was his basis: 3 of 8, vs 0 of 4, 3 of 21, or 1 of 9. Historically he'd been better, but not by a big enough sample size to justify it on historic results.

[darksabre]

Fine. How did Reinhart "earn" his shot? By not getting his stick on a puck that had an open net in front of it?

 

Pominville scored twice. Josefson was brought in for shootouts. Those 2 make sense.

 

What did Sam do to earn a SO attempt over Kane, Griffith, or Eichel Thursday night? Going off historical #'s, which Housley claimed was his basis: 3 of 8, vs 0 of 4, 3 of 21, or 1 of 9. Historically he'd been better, but not by a big enough sample size to justify it on historic results.

I would assume practice goes into that as well. Perhaps Sam does well on shootout drills? 

[LGR4GM]

Fine. How did Reinhart "earn" his shot? By not getting his stick on a puck that had an open net in front of it?

 

Pominville scored twice. Josefson was brought in for shootouts. Those 2 make sense.

 

What did Sam do to earn a SO attempt over Kane, Griffith, or Eichel Thursday night? Going off historical #'s, which Housley claimed was his basis: 3 of 8, vs 0 of 4, 3 of 21, or 1 of 9. Historically he'd been better, but not by a big enough sample size to justify it on historic results.

Maybe they practiced SO and Sam looked good in practice.... Occam's Razor

[Drunkard]

I would assume practice goes into that as well. Perhaps Sam does well on shootout drills?

I'm sure they all look great in practice going up against Lehner.

[Taro T]

Maybe they practiced SO and Sam looked good in practice.... Occam's Razor

On GR after the game they said he'd based it off historical #'s.

[Thorny]

Nah. Not from what we've seen from Jack in the shootout. Dude is miserable. I wish it were different.

I don't think it makes sense to form any conclusions on Jack's shootout aptitude from such a tiny sample size. From his first two years in the NHL, at 19 and 20 years of age. We always say players at his age grow and improve, that could easily equate to improved SO performance over time. With someone of his talent, there is a chance he gets it going, if given a chance.

 

I would assume practice goes into that as well. Perhaps Sam does well on shootout drills?

 

Hoewever, this is the big unknown variable. Maybe Jack is working on it in practice, but is still learning/terrible at them.

 

Bottom line: I'm good with Jack not shooting, provided Housley and co. are giving him every opportunity in practice to hone his shootout skills.

[darksabre]

I don't think it makes sense to form any conclusions on Jack's shootout aptitude from such a tiny sample size. From his first two years in the NHL, at 19 and 20 years of age. We always say players at his age grow and improve, that could easily equate to improved SO performance over time. With someone of his talent, there is a chance he gets it going, if given a chance.

 

 

Hoewever, this is the big unknown variable. Maybe Jack is working on it in practice, but is still learning/terrible at them.

 

Bottom line: I'm good with Jack not shooting, provided Housley and co. are giving him every opportunity in practice to hone his shootout skills.

I think one thing to think about with Jack is that he's more of an organic, on the fly, play maker. But what we know about shootouts, from the mouth of the guys who are good at it, is that they practice one or two moves over and over and that is all they ever use. I get the feeling Jack doesn't like that approach, but that's also why he fails in the shootout. He tries to out-create the goalie in situations where it's not creativity that will beat a goalie, but just being really really perfect with a planned move. 

[Thorny]

^ That sounds just about right.

 

I'll never be a "best players have to shoot" guy. It's not real hockey. The shootout is a gimmick. It's not something I care if my star player is good at.

 

It's different with a goalie. You can't hide your starter come shootout time. He's got to be able to make saves, in a format that clearly favours the goalie, statistically.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Thorny

[Samson's Flow]

I think one thing to think about with Jack is that he's more of an organic, on the fly, play maker. But what we know about shootouts, from the mouth of the guys who are good at it, is that they practice one or two moves over and over and that is all they ever use. I get the feeling Jack doesn't like that approach, but that's also why he fails in the shootout. He tries to out-create the goalie in situations where it's not creativity that will beat a goalie, but just being really really perfect with a planned move. 

I'll buy it. Kotalik was really good at shootouts and he had one go to move (backhand top corner). He relied on that then a counter move if the goalie was cheating that way.

 

Jack needs to go full Zoolander and pick one move and stick with it. He certainly has the mitts to do anything he wants.

[Pokey Jones]

Jack shouldn't be coddled any more. He got the contract, now he has to deliver. You put him in all big situations and sink or swim with it. 

 

As far as Reinhart goes, I just think they are trying to find ways to get something out of him. He has limitations, especially in traffic, so it makes sense to let him try to shine in shootouts where he can use his hockey sense and skills at his own tempo. 

 

But really, I'd be happy if we could just get to shootouts. The way this team plays right now we won't need to worry about shootouts at all.

[Thorny]

I'll buy it. Kotalik was really good at shootouts and he had one go to move (backhand top corner). He relied on that then a counter move if the goalie was cheating that way.

 

Jack needs to go full Zoolander and pick one move and stick with it. He certainly has the mitts to do anything he wants.

Isn't Josefson a shootout specialist in that mould? I wasn't surprised him and Pominville took shots and I expect that to continue.

[erickompositör72]

I think one thing to think about with Jack is that he's more of an organic, on the fly, play maker. But what we know about shootouts, from the mouth of the guys who are good at it, is that they practice one or two moves over and over and that is all they ever use. I get the feeling Jack doesn't like that approach, but that's also why he fails in the shootout. He tries to out-create the goalie in situations where it's not creativity that will beat a goalie, but just being really really perfect with a planned move.

It may work for some, but the former seemed to work for TJ Oshie