Zemgus signed to 2 year deal 1.6 AAV

[woods-racer]

He is over paid with his stats under Dan and Nolan. The minimum salary is $650,000 from what I can gather, so he is at 2.5 times that.

 

IIRC someone on SS believes that a forward is worth +/- $100,000 per goal.

 

He has had an 8,15,7 and 7 goal seasons. His trend is a $700,000 to 1.5 mill per year player.

 

He needs to play at his 14-15 years season level to live up to this contract.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Woods-Racer

[LGR4GM]

He gets more than league minimum because of RFA stuff, does he not?

[inkman]

I can't believe we're arguing about a guy making 2.1% of the cap.

[LGR4GM]

I can't believe we're arguing about a guy making 2.1% of the cap.

The hills are alive!!! With the sound of ... summer hockey talk!!!

- Julie Andrews

[Trettioåtta]

He gets more than league minimum because of RFA stuff, does he not?

 

You have to qualify him at (least) 10% above what he made last season (otherwise they become a UFA). So the Sabres could either have let him walk, or given him at least $1.25 million a season. So he is earning 350,000 above what he had to be. Let's move on folks

[LGR4GM]

You have to qualify him at (least) 10% above what he made last season (otherwise they become a UFA). So the Sabres could either have let him walk, or given him at least $1.25 million a season. So he is earning 350,000 above what he had to be. Let's move on folks

Omg! That's a ton of money, 350k. That's like what Josh Gorges charges per point!

[pi2000]

Pre-Bylsma: 0.4 ppg (52 in 131)

 

Bylsma: 0.23 ppg (34 in 146)

 

Honestly, I said it when we signed him - Bylsma is a crap coach and if you can only win one cup with Sid and Geno on your team that proves it. I'm giving everyone a clean sheet this season

 

"Pre-Bylsma" should be "Pre-Eichel and O'Reilly".    His drop in production had less to do with the head coach, and more to do with better players ahead of him. 

 

Zemgus was the first line C in 2014-15, he played the power play, etc.. and saw over 19min/gm of ice time playing with the top offense players.   He averaged 0.5 ppg that season.   

 

Under Bylsma he was relegated to 3rd line minutes (which is where his skill set belongs IMO).    His time on the PP dropped because of ROR, Eichel, Reinhart, Kane, Okposo, etc..  NOT because of Bylsma.

 

Zemgus has the skillset to play 4th line minutes on a contender, maybe 3rd line.    

 

To blame Bylsma for his drop off in production is a joke.

[WildCard]

"Pre-Bylsma" should be "Pre-Eichel and O'Reilly".    His drop in production had less to do with the head coach, and more to do with better players ahead of him. 

 

Zemgus was the first line C in 2014-15, he played the power play, etc.. and saw over 19min/gm of ice time playing with the top offense players.   He averaged 0.5 ppg that season.   

 

Under Bylsma he was relegated to 3rd line minutes (which is where his skill set belongs IMO).    His time on the PP dropped because of ROR, Eichel, Reinhart, Kane, Okposo, etc..  NOT because of Bylsma.

 

Zemgus has the skillset to play 4th line minutes on a contender, maybe 3rd line.    

 

To blame Bylsma for his drop off in production is a joke.

Agreed. I think Byslma has something to do with it, but really the issue is the same as it was with Ennis. Better players arrived and they got less opportunities 

[Trettioåtta]

"Pre-Bylsma" should be "Pre-Eichel and O'Reilly".    His drop in production had less to do with the head coach, and more to do with better players ahead of him. 

 

Zemgus was the first line C in 2014-15, he played the power play, etc.. and saw over 19min/gm of ice time playing with the top offense players.   He averaged 0.5 ppg that season.   

 

Under Bylsma he was relegated to 3rd line minutes (which is where his skill set belongs IMO).    His time on the PP dropped because of ROR, Eichel, Reinhart, Kane, Okposo, etc..  NOT because of Bylsma.

 

Zemgus has the skillset to play 4th line minutes on a contender, maybe 3rd line.    

 

To blame Bylsma for his drop off in production is a joke.

 

I think that's true to an extent, but as a third line forward he should be against lower calibre players compared to when he was a first liner. So yes he'll get less opportunities due to less time, but he should be able to capitalise on them more. I don't think it makes sense for a third line player to put up more points against tougher opponents simply due to time on ice.

 

To clarify, I think Girgensons' ceiling is a good third line centre who can step up to the 2nd line if someone is injured 

[woods-racer]

I got this out of an article from Hockey-graphs written by John Matisz....

 

 

 

 

 

His article....

 

https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/06/03/how-much-is-the-best-fourth-line-in-hockey-worth/

 

 

 

 

I can't believe we're arguing about a guy making 2.1% of the cap.

 

 

 

 

I think that's true to an extent, but as a third line forward he should be against lower calibre players compared to when he was a first liner. So yes he'll get less opportunities due to less time, but he should be able to capitalise on them more. I don't think it makes sense for a third line player to put up more points against tougher opponents simply due to time on ice.

 

To clarify, I think Girgensons' ceiling is a good third line centre who can step up to the 2nd line if someone is injured 

 

I think he is a good fourth line center on a deep playoff team that can move up to the third line. His 2.1% of cap salary  is hoping he plays at a third line level.

[Thorny]

I can't believe we're arguing about a guy making 2.1% of the cap.

Omg! That's a ton of money, 350k. That's like what Josh Gorges charges per point!

Maybe I just acknowledge that he's been a relatively useless player for 2 seasons, and would rather be paying him $0. So yes, he's overpaid in my view. The options aren't just $1.25 M or above.

 

Matt Cullen had 31 points last year. He's getting paid 1 million ($1.7M including bonuses). Girgensons had 16 points.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Thorny

[pi2000]

Maybe I just acknowledge that he's been a relatively useless player for 2 seasons, and would rather be paying him $0. So yes, he's overpaid in my view. The options aren't just $1.25 M or above.

 

Matt Cullen had 31 points last year. He's getting paid 1 million ($1.7M including bonuses). Girgensons had 16 points.

 

dammit.

 

I would've loved to have Cullen instead of Girgensons.    There are way better players out there for $1.6m than Girgensons.

[Pokey Jones]

I simply think he was a better center than a winger. Give him a clearly defined role as a third line center with 2-way responsibility and i think you will see him put up good solid numbers. 

[Huckleberry]

I simply think he was a better center than a winger. Give him a clearly defined role as a third line center with 2-way responsibility and i think you will see him put up good solid numbers. 

 

Larsson is a better 3C and I expect Davidson or Asplund to take that spot in 2 years.

Girgensons and Larsson are spot fillers until then.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Who says Jbot signed him to be the 3rd or 4th line center?

 

I think Jbot signed him to be a utility forward and likely 3rd line LW.   Z has speed, size, some physical aspects to his game and can score in the right circumstances.  This would then place Josefson and his near 52% FOW% as the 4th line center and 2nd PK center.  

 

Kane Eichel Okposo

Pouliot ROR Reinhart

Girgensons Larsson Pominville

Moulson Josefson Fasching?

 

Not my 1st choice for the lineup (I'd like Reinhart as 3rd center), but this seems the direction Jbot is going. 

[qwksndmonster]

"Pre-Bylsma" should be "Pre-Eichel and O'Reilly".    His drop in production had less to do with the head coach, and more to do with better players ahead of him. 

 

Zemgus was the first line C in 2014-15, he played the power play, etc.. and saw over 19min/gm of ice time playing with the top offense players.   He averaged 0.5 ppg that season.   

 

Under Bylsma he was relegated to 3rd line minutes (which is where his skill set belongs IMO).    His time on the PP dropped because of ROR, Eichel, Reinhart, Kane, Okposo, etc..  NOT because of Bylsma.

 

Zemgus has the skillset to play 4th line minutes on a contender, maybe 3rd line.    

 

To blame Bylsma for his drop off in production is a joke.

Why not both? Zemgus scored less because he got less playing time, and also because the coach was trying to coach with 17 whiteboards.  I think Zemgus is a guy that plays with his instincts, and Bylsma was crushing his hockey soul.

[WildCard]

Why not both? Zemgus scored less because he got less playing time, and also because the coach was trying to coach with 17 whiteboards. I think Zemgus is a guy that plays with his instincts, and Bylsma was crushing his hockey soul.

Along with everyone else's too

[Thorny]

Who says Jbot signed him to be the 3rd or 4th line center?

 

I think Jbot signed him to be a utility forward and likely 3rd line LW.   Z has speed, size, some physical aspects to his game and can score in the right circumstances.  This would then place Josefson and his near 52% FOW% as the 4th line center and 2nd PK center.  

 

Kane Eichel Okposo

Pouliot ROR Reinhart

Girgensons Larsson Pominville

Moulson Josefson Fasching?

 

Not my 1st choice for the lineup (I'd like Reinhart as 3rd center), but this seems the direction Jbot is going.

 

I suspect we'll see something like this as well.

[Pokey Jones]

Well I don't see that line up at all. No identity to those line combos.

 

Eichel needs speed and offensive skill with him to play to his full potential. Eichel's a shooter first. He is Hull, he needs his Oates. We don't really have that guy but I'd match him with the best speed we have until we get that guy. Try Pominville and Nylander, probably won't work (one too old, one too young and soft) so you end up with Kane and Reinhart for now. 

 

Okposo, if he is healthy now (?), with ROR and ???

 

Pouliot, Girgensens, and ? Rodrigues/Pominville might make a good 3rd line

 

Deslaurier, Larsson, Fasching might be an interesting 4th. Gonna miss Foligno for that line but I'm sure we will find an equivalent eventually but that line has to have grit and more toughness.

 

 

So many holes its hard to make a real line up. Just hoping some young guys will step up.

 

Bottom line, if Moulson makes the starting line up you can kiss the season goodbye.  

[jeffismagic]

I would not be opposed to trying Zemgus with Jack as the grit guy and then give Jack another player with speed who can score. 

[ubkev]

I would not be opposed to trying Zemgus with Jack as the grit guy and then give Jack another player with speed who can score.

Zemgus can score?

[jeffismagic]

Zemgus can score? 

 

and then give Jack another player with speed who can score. So that would be someone else while Zemgus would be doing the dirty work for Jack and the goal scorer.

 

And to be clear I am not stating this needs to be in stone. But I wouldn't mind seeing it for a bit while Housley is looking for lines and players with chemistry.

Edited August 20, 2017 by jeffismagic

[dudacek]

Zemgus will be among the most interesting Sabres to watch this year.

 

JBot talked a lot about putting puck hounds out there to complement his top talent.

The skating ability and tenacity that made Z a first rounder is still there. He can play defence. He's scored some pretty goals.

Remember when we thought he was going to be a core guy? He's only 23.

 

My pick for most surprising Sabre this year, likely as a top six left wing.

Like others, I like him with Jack. But why not with O'Reilly on the line that matches up against other team's best?

Edited August 20, 2017 by dudacek

[jeffismagic]

Zemgus will be among the most interesting Sabres to watch this year.

 

JBot talked a lot about putting puck hounds out there to complement his top talent.

The skating ability and tenacity that made Z a first rounder is still there. He can play defence. He's scored some pretty goals.

Remember when we thought he was going to be a core guy? He's only 23.

 

My pick for most surprising Sabre this year, likely as a top six left wing.

Like others, I like him with Jack. But why not with O'Reilly on the line that matches up against other team's best?

That would be a huge win if Z took another step.

[ubkev]

and then give Jack another player with speed who can score. So that would be someone else while Zemgus would be doing the dirty work for Jack and the goal scorer.

 

And to be clear I am not stating this needs to be in stone. But I wouldn't mind seeing it for a bit while Housley is looking for lines and players with chemistry.

Hence the question mark.

 

But just the same I'd keep zemgus as far away from anyone of value as possible, as I'm in the camp where he has no skill.