JJFIVEOH Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Its not the won loss record in shootouts that has people concerned. It is the goose egg in the save column. Understandable, but he did stop a combined 12 of 20 the two years prior. I highly doubt he would keep the pace he had last year. It's almost impossible. If the team is going to rely on the couple of extra points he can get in a shootout, then they need to work on improving the team. No need for worrying about shootout in the postseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) Understandable, but he did stop a combined 12 of 20 the two years prior. I highly doubt he would keep the pace he had last year. It's almost impossible. If the team is going to rely on the couple of extra points he can get in a shootout, then they need to work on improving the team. No need for worrying about shootout in the postseason. For me it isn't the extra points as much as it is he isn't showing well in a demonstration of what should be a skills competition. Combine those three seasons and you get 12 of 28 saves. Larger sample size and all that. It;s just not a good look. The concern is warranted. It is valid to question how much of his success is a result of a preponderance of outside shots faced. A 1 year deal is exactly what is needed to evaluate what his role should be, Edited August 5, 2017 by We've Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Inconsistent is the word that comes to mind with Lehner. He can have a great game or part of a game but he is not the kind of guy you can rely on to make the key save in a 2-2 3rd period tie. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Also feel he is moody and temperamental. (or maybe just "mental" :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I've got no problem with moody and temperamental. It's nice to have somebody on the ice with some heart and fire. Nobody else seemed to have any last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I can't explain Jbots, but as for myself Lehner is getting a shot to show. My question is what is the plan following this season if Lehner isn't in the longer term plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I'm curious to see how he'll play this year. He's not going to be facing tons of outside shots every game like last season so it should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Understandable, but he did stop a combined 12 of 20 the two years prior. I highly doubt he would keep the pace he had last year. It's almost impossible. If the team is going to rely on the couple of extra points he can get in a shootout, then they need to work on improving the team. No need for worrying about shootout in the postseason. I don't agree. With how many close games there are in the NHL, teams need to be able to rely on their netminder to take a few points. And that's across the board not just bubble teams. It builds confidence within the roater imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I think there is some residue of "we paid too much" and the shootout struggle plays a bigger role than it probably should, but the strongest thing colouring the perception of Lehner is the lack of wins. So far as a Sabre, the team in front of him has rarely outplayed the opponent, so you can't really blame him for many losses. But the flip side is he hasn't had that many outings where he has stolen a game. Until he has a stronger team in front of him, it's hard to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 The Sabres as a team finished 4th in the league in save percentage. Lehner managed to finish in 9th, a feat Miller only managed to do one time. Behind one of the worst defenses in the league. Lehner lost AT MOST 4 points in shootouts, In three of four of Lehner's shootout losses he was named one of the 3 stars so they probably managed to get more points because of his play than he managed to lose in shootouts. I really don't know what more the guy needs to do to gain the fans' acceptance. The Sabres managed 1.5 goals per game in the games that went to a shootout with Lehner in net. Safe to say, he was stealing a point in those shootout losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 The Sabres as a team finished 4th in the league in save percentage. Lehner managed to finish in 9th, a feat Miller only managed to do one time. Behind one of the worst defenses in the league. Lehner lost AT MOST 4 points in shootouts, In three of four of Lehner's shootout losses he was named one of the 3 stars so they probably managed to get more points because of his play than he managed to lose in shootouts. I really don't know what more the guy needs to do to gain the fans' acceptance. He needs to go back in time & convince the Otters' GM to take the 31st pick for him & Legwand so the 21st pick can be part of the O'Reilly/McGann package. Sabres still end up w/ the same roster but they wouldn't have "overpaid" for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I agree, this will be a good year to prove himself. With a real team in front of him and a fresh start. He needs to go back in time & convince the Otters' GM to take the 31st pick for him & Legwand so the 21st pick can be part of the O'Reilly/McGann package. Sabres still end up w/ the same roster but they wouldn't have "overpaid" for anything. I don't think he has anything to do with that. Tough to pin that on him, and even tougher to keep holding it over his head. People need to get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) I agree, this will be a good year to prove himself. With a real team in front of him and a fresh start. I don't think he has anything to do with that. Tough to pin that on him, and even tougher to keep holding it over his head. People need to get over it. Agreed. But whether fair or not, that seems to be the answer to your implied question. Edited August 5, 2017 by Taro T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 The Sabres as a team finished 4th in the league in save percentage. Lehner managed to finish in 9th, a feat Miller only managed to do one time. Behind one of the worst defenses in the league. Lehner lost AT MOST 4 points in shootouts, In three of four of Lehner's shootout losses he was named one of the 3 stars so they probably managed to get more points because of his play than he managed to lose in shootouts. I really don't know what more the guy needs to do to gain the fans' acceptance. The Sabres managed 1.5 goals per game in the games that went to a shootout with Lehner in net. Safe to say, he was stealing a point in those shootout losses. I think the concerns some fans have are reasonably held and well articulated just up-thread. Nobody is skewering the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 it seemed like all spring and summer they were trying to find reasons not to keep robin lehner. naturally the gm/coaching change delayed any resolution. but it was pretty obvious the general consensus was that his status was up in the air for reasons other than the management change and his free agency then when they finally got everything in place all they did was sign lehner to a one-year deal worth 4M, placing him approximately 24th in the league in total salary i dont get it wasnt the sabres defense one of the leagues worst last season? even so, lehners save% was .920, good for 8th in the league among starters. he faced not only a lot of shots, he also faced a lot of prime scoring position shots, so that high of a save % is pretty remarkable. the eye test told me that most nights he was one of their best players on the ice so why is everyone (including management) so lukewarm on the guy? at 26 hes still pretty young for a goalie, so to step in and perform that well on a bad defensive team should be viewed as an impressive feat. i know he had that big injury problem in 15 and only played 20-ish games, but he bounced back fine and played 59 last season so why didnt they try to lock him up for at least 2-3 years? whats the deal with the 1-year sort of trial deal? He's been good, but not great. This isn't Botterill's player, so he wants to see what he has in person before committing or not committing fully to him. Maybe there are some things Botterill doesn't like in his game...could be a number of reasons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 I really don't know what more the guy needs to do to gain the fans' acceptance. Maybe read the responses above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) I read everything everybody said. All I did was point out, and highlight, where I thought the criticism was inaccurate. Where he did, in fact, steal his fair share of games..... and where his SO problems had no impact on the season. Edited August 5, 2017 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 6, 2017 Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 I'm pretty sure everyone agrees he is awful in shootouts, but costing a team 8-15 points a year is not even close. The Sabres were in 8 shootouts last year...so I GUESS you can say he could cost the Sabres 8 points if he lost every one of them, and if he was in net for all 8. If you are in 8 shootouts a year, and 'average' goalie will win 4 and lose 4.....so if Lehner were in all 8, he would cost the Sabres 4 points vs an average goalie. In a typical season, odds would have him in 5 or 6 of the 8 shootouts. Lets say 6. If an average goalie splits those, and Lehner loses all 6, he would cost you 3 points. Last year, he actually was in 4 shootouts and lost all 4. If the average goalies wins 2 and loses 2, the lost you a total of 2 points last year by being awful in shootouts instead of average. Some teams don't even get in 8 shootouts. Last year, Montreal only was in 5, Winnipeg was in 4, San Jose and Colorado only had 3 the entire year. But even assuming he loses everyone he is in....that would on average cost you 3 points year vs a typical goalie...assuming 8 shootouts a year and Lehner in net for 6 of those. Him costing you 15 points a year would be almost impossible. You have to go back 4 seasons to even find a team that had 15 shootouts or more (and that was before the 4 on 4 OT which reduces shootouts) and you would have to assume he loses every single one and compare him to a goalie that wins just about every one. Good post. But I'd still rather have those 3 points. The bottom 4 teams of the 8 in the playoffs in the East last year, were separated by 1 point. I don't want an abysmal shootout performance to be the different between making the playoffs and not. Not to mention, if Lehner's goose-egg continues, the team may start playing different in 3 v 3, knowing if the game goes to a shootout, they are sunk. Its not the won loss record in shootouts that has people concerned. It is the goose egg in the save column. This. Make a save. It's not that hard (see: all other goalies in the NHL.) It's either an aberration, a talent issue, or a mental issue. I don't know which of the latter 2 is worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 6, 2017 Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 it seemed like all spring and summer they were trying to find reasons not to keep robin lehner. naturally the gm/coaching change delayed any resolution. but it was pretty obvious the general consensus was that his status was up in the air for reasons other than the management change and his free agency then when they finally got everything in place all they did was sign lehner to a one-year deal worth 4M, placing him approximately 24th in the league in total salary i dont get it wasnt the sabres defense one of the leagues worst last season? even so, lehners save% was .920, good for 8th in the league among starters. he faced not only a lot of shots, he also faced a lot of prime scoring position shots, so that high of a save % is pretty remarkable. the eye test told me that most nights he was one of their best players on the ice so why is everyone (including management) so lukewarm on the guy? at 26 hes still pretty young for a goalie, so to step in and perform that well on a bad defensive team should be viewed as an impressive feat. i know he had that big injury problem in 15 and only played 20-ish games, but he bounced back fine and played 59 last season so why didnt they try to lock him up for at least 2-3 years? whats the deal with the 1-year sort of trial deal? Because he's terrible on shootouts. I mean faked-out-of-his-jock bad. By the time you reach the NHL you should not be that gullible all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 6, 2017 Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 JJ50 -- is Lehner better or worse than Enroth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 6, 2017 Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 Well, Enroth does own the NHL record for most consecutive shootout saves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted August 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 i agree the shootout points are crucial to a middling team like the sabres you know its perfectly legal to switch goalies for the shootout. it would piss any starting goalie off to get replaced after you got the team to the shootout but perhaps housley has the balls to let ochocinco take all shootout trys i sincerely doubt it. but with a .500-ish career shootout save pcentage on a team trying to squeak into the playoffs it might be time to think outside of the crease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7+6=13 Posted August 6, 2017 Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 JBot had a lot of work to do and I think goaltender will be a position he addresses next off season. Lehner obviously has an opportunity but JBot wasn't giving him a long term deal. I think the one year deal is more of a band aid than a prove it deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted August 7, 2017 Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 JBot had a lot of work to do and I think goaltender will be a position he addresses next off season. Lehner obviously has an opportunity but JBot wasn't giving him a long term deal. I think the one year deal is more of a band aid than a prove it deal. I think this could be true. It seems GMTM was hot for Lehner the minute he got the Buffalo job, and thought he had golden insider info--would be seen as a genius for acquiring him. GMBot, on the other hand, has a modus operandi that seems much more broad and thorough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 That's not a very nice thing to say. Is this sarcasm/irony? Not following... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Is this sarcasm/irony? Not following... Ha, my bad, misread the first time, failed attempt at humour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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