2018 - 2019 Lineup

[LGR4GM]

It isn't a thing. It is people overreacting based on 1 game. 

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

There was never, ever, any chance Dahlin wasn't going to be in the opening night lineup. Zero. 

Is this really a thing? 

Dahlin is, and always was, a lock. 

 

[Randall Flagg]

How much was Bogosian ever going to play if he can't survive his second preseason game?

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

How much was Bogosian ever going to play if he can't survive his second preseason game?

How much, indeed. Paging Mr. Botterill....

[Randall Flagg]

It sounds like Skinner - Jack - Sam has looked good, but they have one ES goal in their 3 games, right? If that continues, it doesn't justify keeping it together when Skinner has shown an ability to lift any teammate to a tilted ice while he's out there, if he's the focal point of the line. With Jack and Sam there's less puck for him and what he's doing for a possible relative lack of goals is better used elsewhere. 

 

[dudacek]

26 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

It sounds like Skinner - Jack - Sam has looked good, but they have one ES goal in their 3 games, right? If that continues, it doesn't justify keeping it together when Skinner has shown an ability to lift any teammate to a tilted ice while he's out there, if he's the focal point of the line. With Jack and Sam there's less puck for him and what he's doing for a possible relative lack of goals is better used elsewhere. 

 

I read five points in five periods as a line...?

I generally agree, but damn, they were a thing of beauty.

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I read five points in five periods as a line...?

I generally agree, but damn, they were a thing of beauty.

I read 1 ES goal in 3 games, but not from a primary source. 

[Brawndo]

 

[Randall Flagg]

In general though, I still mean what I said - if it doesn't perform like the super line we want it to be, if it's just "good" it probably isn't worth it. 

I want Avalanche production (97 points, 80+ points, 60+ points) from a super line, if Jack's pulling his usual 77-82 point pace then it's not worth making our other lines worse.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[TrueBlueGED]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

In general though, I still mean what I said - if it doesn't perform like the super line we want it to be, if it's just "good" it probably isn't worth it. 

I want Avalanche production (97 points, 80+ points, 60+ points) from a super line, if Jack's pulling his usual 77-82 point pace then it's not worth making our other lines worse.

This is where I'm at. I want to see evidence they're enhancing one another's performance to a meaningful degree. If they're doing what they always do, or barely better, I'd prefer to spread the talent out. 

[Randall Flagg]

And of course I'm talking for the future, when real games start, I shouldn't have even mentioned their games to date (they looked pretty good in the one I saw)

[LTS]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

FTR, I didn't mean that to be a reply to you, or else I would have quoted you. I was just triggered into imagining my worst-case-scenario that dudacek has referenced, and I gathered you were just speculating on what might happen and good justification for it.

Terrence M Pegula

Also if y'all read that whole thing, I am relaxed and am quite confident that won't happen, just saying that if it does I think they're a bunch of knuckleheads.

No worries.  I expect it to happen, because that's the business aspect of hockey taking over.  My post just prior to yours had said I expect most vets to be in the lineup on Day 1.

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

How do we know that Botterill hasn't been trying to trade guys? Maybe no one wants to pay anything for them and you are better off just waving them and clearing them off your books. If they don't get claimed, good for Rochester. 

We don't know, but how many trade rumors do you hear right now?  There are very few, presumably because everyone is too busy figuring out their existing assets before they go looking for what can be replaced. The Sabres don't really need them off the books at this point. 

57 minutes ago, Thorny said:

There was never, ever, any chance Dahlin wasn't going to be in the opening night lineup. Zero. 

Agree, but is this really a thing? 

Dahlin is, and always was, a lock. 

Ahh absolutes.  There is always a chance.  However, given Bogosian and Hunwick injuries, the chance is slim.. mighty slim.  Dahlin has not looked that great out there and there are others who would appear to give the Sabres a better chance at success.  If that argument is going to be used for the forwards why would it also not apply to the defense?  I understand the "#1 pick" emotional aspect of it.  However, if others are performing better and Dahlin needs time, then he needs time.

[WildCard]

Will O'Reagan ever be a main stay in the NHL?

[dudacek]

Just now, WildCard said:

Will O'Reagan ever be a main stay in the NHL?

No.

CJ Smith, IMO, outperformed a number of guys still here.

[shrader]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

No.

CJ Smith, IMO, outperformed a number of guys still here.

There's a bit of a trend with each of these forwards.  They're each a little older, but at the same time have spent less time at the pro level.  They're all college, a fact I'm sure people could have some fun with.  It looks to me like they're still toying with the possibilities of the younger guys and also holding onto the waiver eligible players until the last second.

I wonder when they start to slim down the blueline.

[Thorny]

52 minutes ago, LTS said:

No worries.  I expect it to happen, because that's the business aspect of hockey taking over.  My post just prior to yours had said I expect most vets to be in the lineup on Day 1.

We don't know, but how many trade rumors do you hear right now?  There are very few, presumably because everyone is too busy figuring out their existing assets before they go looking for what can be replaced. The Sabres don't really need them off the books at this point. 

Ahh absolutes.  There is always a chance.  However, given Bogosian and Hunwick injuries, the chance is slim.. mighty slim.  Dahlin has not looked that great out there and there are others who would appear to give the Sabres a better chance at success.  If that argument is going to be used for the forwards why would it also not apply to the defense?  I understand the "#1 pick" emotional aspect of it.  However, if others are performing better and Dahlin needs time, then he needs time.

I disagree with this outright. And for the record, it was an absolute. #1 picks, especially of his talent, play in the NHL right away. It's just what happens, it's best for his development, as others have outlined.

The bolded seems to just be wrong, in my opinion. How many other defenders make the perfect outlet pass to Eichel that he converted into a goal yesterday? Sure he's making some mistakes, but if Dahlin is hypothetically our 6th D man right now (he's not), who is this 7th (and 8th? You said others, plural) defenceman who would give the Sabres a better chance of success? Beaulieu? Nelson? Bogosian? Hunwick? Tennyson? Benoit? Meszaros?

Dahlin makes the team on ability right now, everything else aside, full stop. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

No.

CJ Smith, IMO, outperformed a number of guys still here.

I saw it that way too at least in Toronto. He had an awesome game

[Randall Flagg]

7 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Go light it up in Rochester. Contracts will be moving at some point, some sooner than others.

If most of the kids make it I could definitely see him being one of the first callups

[shrader]

14 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I saw it that way too at least in Toronto. He had an awesome game

You're drawing conclusions from strange places today, which seems a bit out of character.  Earlier it was breaking up a linen based on very limited preseason experience and now it's judging Smith based on only one game.  I realize most people, myself included, haven't seen much so far, but are you some sort of imposter posing as Flagg?  Is eleven up to his crazy fake username games again?

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

You're drawing conclusions from strange places today, which seems a bit out of character.  Earlier it was breaking up a linen based on very limited preseason experience and now it's judging Smith based on only one game.  I realize most people, myself included, haven't seen much so far, but are you some sort of imposter posing as Flagg?  Is eleven up to his crazy fake username games again?

I must be going crazy or just out to lunch in general then because I find myself agreeing with Flagg today no less than normal. Go figure. 

[shrader]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I must be going crazy or just out to lunch in general then because I find myself agreeing with Flagg today no less than normal. Go figure. 

I'm not saying he's wrong.  The limited performance may match the preseason as a whole, but that's not guaranteed.  I haven't really heard that much variation on Smith, but it seems like it's been there for others, like say Nylander.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is it really so surprising that the kids start out their first season in the NHL on the 3rd forward line and the 3rd D pairing?  Why did everyone assume they'd dominate from day 1.  It does work like that (usually).  Go look at Karlsson and Hedman's first seasons to get an idea what we can really expect from Dahlin.

[shrader]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is it really so surprising that the kids start out their first season in the NHL on the 3rd forward line and the 3rd D pairing?  Why did everyone assume they'd dominate from day 1.  It does work like that (usually).  Go look at Karlsson and Hedman's first seasons to get an idea what we can really expect from Dahlin.

Are they really comparables though?  They're all Swedes coming out of the same league, but the hype train is off the charts with Dahlin.  I'm willing to consider Hedman, as he was very highly hyped, but Karlsson falls a few rungs lower on the ladder.  I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect a bit more from Dahlin than those guys provided.  Wishful thinking, maybe, but definitely not unreasonable.

[nfreeman]

I’m kinda disappointed that O’Regan didn’t get more of a look.  I’m not disagreeing with JBott’s and Howie’s evaluations of DOR — just hoping for more out of the guy we got for Kane.  

OTOH, it looks like Tage and Nylander are still in the running to make the show.  

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

You're drawing conclusions from strange places today, which seems a bit out of character.  Earlier it was breaking up a linen based on very limited preseason experience and now it's judging Smith based on only one game.  I realize most people, myself included, haven't seen much so far, but are you some sort of imposter posing as Flagg?  Is eleven up to his crazy fake username games again?

That statement is qualified with the "at least in the game I saw him" so when I'm talking to a poster who saw more, I'm trusting that poster's take on things. I don't see anything strange about that at all.  Like, I literally pointed that out myself in the post

"At least in Toronto" which is one sample size out of like 2 (he's only played a couple preseason games right?) that we have to go off of and what I saw lined up with the poster's take that is more general

Meh I don't think I'm doing anything differently

 

Also, the breaking up the line thing, I said this upthread:

"And of course I'm talking for the future, when real games start, I shouldn't have even mentioned their games to date (they looked pretty good in the one I saw)" Sooooo

Edited September 26, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[Randall Flagg]

But I'll flesh things out a little more too w.r.t. vets in the lineup to start. LTS mentioned he doesn't think there's a meaningful difference on the ice but I simply do. I think having Kyle and Jason in is fine, but if the "vets" push Tage, Alex, Casey/Rasmus down to Rochester, then the bottom six will be flush with Girgs, Larsson, Wilson, Sobotka etc which pushes Kyle and Pommers above where they should be, and then tell me with a straight face how that's any different than our core problems last year? I can find posts from every single member of this forum describing how we need youth, speed, and depth to push half those guys out. Well, let's get at it, we did the hard part of that process already, acquiring the pieces!!

Whereas, Tage, Alex, one of Casey/Rasmus, have done enough to make the team and play effective NHL hockey, and to skate fast with guys we need playing fast, and pushing other players down into more proper positions. The lack of this has been a core tenant of my take on why we were so bad last year, so that's why it would be so mind-numbingly thick and counterproductive for them to do that, in my eyes

Edited September 26, 2018 by Randall Flagg