Jbot so far?

[shrader]

I think most of it has been routine but I would argue fixing the defense was a major challenge and finding a coach. He definitely upgraded the defense and it should be better. The coach verdict is out and will be for a bit. I love Housley and I am pumped for him, I think it was a good hire but we have no proof of that yet.

 

Yeah, the defense would definitely be what I call as the biggest moves.  I'd say they were moves that many GMs could/would have made though.  Adding a top pairing guy would be what I would consider as a major move at this stage of his tenure and that was something that wasn't going to happen.  So at this point, he's done what he had to do, the real world equivalent of making it through your 90 day trial period.  We're happy with you so far, so let's see more.

[nfreeman]

That's easily the going rate for a 30pt forward. 

 

Just because a number of other teams have overpaid for JAG forwards doesn't mean doing so is prudent cap management. 

 

 

I feel like we're complementing him for tying his shoes.  There really hasn't been any major challenge so far.  We'll find out about that soon enough though, as they start to approach their plans for next offseason.  I'd imagine that once Zemgus is taken care of, we'll see quick action on the Eichel front.  That's still the easy part though, it's what he does to work around that mega-deal.

I think most of it has been routine but I would argue fixing the defense was a major challenge and finding a coach. He definitely upgraded the defense and it should be better. The coach verdict is out and will be for a bit. I love Housley and I am pumped for him, I think it was a good hire but we have no proof of that yet.

 

Beat me to it.  Of course, as you say, the proof will be in the pudding.  If Housley and the new defensemen are good, then JBott has done quite a bit more than tie his shoes.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I too like the job JBott has done so far.  Calm, steady, prudent and effective.

 

I disagree with the bolded though.  Good cap management does not include handing out $2.4MM contracts to JAG forwards.

 

 

Really? What do you think we'd have paid Foligno this season for his 23 pts? We paid him 2.25 last year. He'll likely get 2.5+ from Minn. Remember the rule of thumb for forwards: 100K per point.

 

 

That's easily the going rate for a 30pt forward.

 

Absolutely! What is interesting is that the bridge deals for guys like Sheary, Spooner, Faksa and Pageau are all coming in somewhat less the 100k per point. Still getting a 28 pt D for what we might have paid a 28-30 pt forward is a bargain Imho.

[nfreeman]

 

 

Really? What do you think we'd have paid Foligno this season for his 23 pts? We paid him 2.25 last year. He'll likely get 2.5+ from Minn. Remember the rule of thumb for forwards: 100K per point.

 

 

Absolutely! What is interesting is that the bridge deals for guys like Sheary, Spooner, Faksa and Pageau are all coming in somewhat less the 100k per point. Still getting a 28 pt D for what we might have paid a 28-30 pt forward is a bargain Imho.

 

Again:  the fact that other teams overpay JAG forwards isn't a good reason for the Sabres to do so.  Prudent cap management requires GMs to keep their cap powder dry so it can be used on real difference-makers.  You mentioned Sheary -- Pittsburgh is a good example:  http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/cap/-- they aren't paying any JAG forwards more than $1.1MM. 

 

The Sabres look like they are moving in that direction -- i.e. their stars are going to get paid and young/cheap guys will cycle through the lower spots in the rotation.

 

As for Foligno, perhaps it's not a coincidence that he was traded before JBott had to pay him $2.5MMish per year.

 

In any case I agree that it's a good price for Beaulieu.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Sheary's new deal is 3 mill per season for the next 3 years.

[Thorny]

Sheary's new deal is 3 mill per season for the next 3 years.

I would argue he's not JAG. But I suppose it could be the Crosby effect.

[Weave]

I feel like we're complementing him for tying his shoes.  There really hasn't been any major challenge so far.  We'll find out about that soon enough though, as they start to approach their plans for next offseason.  I'd imagine that once Zemgus is taken care of, we'll see quick action on the Eichel front.  That's still the easy part though, it's what he does to work around that mega-deal.

 

Yup.  Minimum expectations met so far.

I think most of it has been routine but I would argue fixing the defense was a major challenge and finding a coach. He definitely upgraded the defense and it should be better. The coach verdict is out and will be for a bit. I love Housley and I am pumped for him, I think it was a good hire but we have no proof of that yet.

 

Let's see Bowlyou and Antman in the lineup before proclaiming the defense fixed.

[pi2000]

I'd still like him to bring in a veteran bottom 6 guy who can take d-zone faceoffs and kill penalties, otherwise ROR will be burned out by the All-Star break.

[LGR4GM]

Like Johan Larson?

[Drunkard]

Like Johan Larson?

 

Larrson is decent at best on face offs and doesn't do regular time on the PK. Only 44 minutes in 36 games last year and only 24 minutes in 74 games the year before.

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/2043047/johan-larsson

Edited August 2, 2017 by Drunkard

[LGR4GM]

Larrson is decent at best on face offs and doesn't do regular time on the PK. Only 44 minutes in 36 games last year and only 24 minutes in 74 games the year before.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/playerpage/2043047/johan-larsson

Because Dan Abysmal

[pi2000]

Like Johan Larson?

 

He's AHL caliber at best in all phases.    Watching him play, I don't know what is that coaches see in him to give him regular minutes.    He's not particularly quick, he's a slow plodding skater at top speed, lacks any kind of offensive awareness,  can't shoot or pass very well,   is undersized,  and has a TRpm of -3.. meaning he has a negative influence relative to the average player on the team... which is bad news when on a bad team.    To compare ROR has a TRpm of +23. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by pi2000

[Pokey Jones]

Guess I'm a pessimist but no way does this team make the playoffs as is. It's going to take time to change the culture, change the style. Nylander didn't look even close to ready last year so unless he makes huge leaps don't count on him stepping into a starring role just yet. The D is much better but that doesn't say much. It'll take time to learn Housley's system as it's a complete 180 from what they've been doing. Big time growing pains.

I still expect MANY moves before we get fully going in the right direction. Too many guys who are basically the same mediocre guy. Too many centers. Time to stop just sticking centers on the wing and move a few of them for actual wingers. 

[North Buffalo]

Guess I'm a pessimist but no way does this team make the playoffs as is. It's going to take time to change the culture, change the style. Nylander didn't look even close to ready last year so unless he makes huge leaps don't count on him stepping into a starring role just yet. The D is much better but that doesn't say much. It'll take time to learn Housley's system as it's a complete 180 from what they've been doing. Big time growing pains.

I still expect MANY moves before we get fully going in the right direction. Too many guys who are basically the same mediocre guy. Too many centers. Time to stop just sticking centers on the wing and move a few of them for actual wingers.

 

Centers can go to wing. Its actually easy, but young centers are usually there because they were the best players on there team. You don't usually go from wing to center... case in point look at Middlestadt in WJ tournament on wing.... who is normally a center. Watch Eichel on off wing on powerplay.... Its not the position but the skill set including being able to skate the puck all the way up the ice then find an outlet, to control the puck. Wingers tend to be shooters and corner muckers but little else. Centers should be able to do all of the above.

 

I am concerned about Nylander's drive... could be wrong, but he needs to mature between his ears. He has great skill, but concerned about his heart. Put Larrson's heart in Nylander's body... and you have a great hockey player!

[Pokey Jones]

Centers can go to wing. Its actually easy, but young centers are usually there because they were the best players on there team. You don't usually go from wing to center... case in point look at Middlestadt in WJ tournament on wing.... who is normally a center. Watch Eichel on off wing on powerplay.... Its not the position but the skill set including being able to skate the puck all the way up the ice then find an outlet, to control the puck. Wingers tend to be shooters and corner muckers but little else. Centers should be able to do all of the above.

 

 

I totally get that idea but I don't think the theory and the reality add up. Some players are just better at one forward position over another. Sure. in theory, a center can be a winger but most of the guys we have just haven't looked as good on the wing. I won't get into Middlestadt cause he is simply an unknown until he plays at the pro level but Girgensens, Larson, even Reinhart are all better at center. The only solid and proven true wingers we have are Okposo and Kane (although I have issues with him for different reasons). Pomminstein now too I guess but it remains to be seen how much he can still bring at this stage. 

To my mind if you want this team to be competitive you want these 4 true centers in order: Eichel, O'Reilly, Girgensens and Larrson.  (I am taking cap, style and role into that not just the 4 most talented guys). Eichel has to assume the number one scoring line obviously, then O'Reilly can step back his ice time and be what he actually is: the best SECOND line center in the league. They both need solid wingers to play with them. Speedier and more skilled with Eichel and fast but grittier and more 2-way with O'Reilly. Those two lines can then go up against the best from the other team. 

The third line should be fast but scrappy. 2-way players who can be a threat. Girgensens is made for that. The 4th line grit and heart.  

I just don't see Reinhart fitting into that and some of the other centers haven't shown me enough on the wing to fit in either.  So I would have already traded Reinhart for more D, while he is still young, before the rest of the league realizes he is never gonna get where he was expected to be.

 

The true measure of JBot will be how they draft in later rounds. This is where they have failed miserably under Murray. A few years back this team had "the most prospects", the "cupboard was full" and now the opposite is true. Can't think of a single later round guy who has come in and impressed. Pittsburgh, on the other hand, had several so if he had a hand in any of those picks maybe we will be ok in time. 

lol - not sure what sort of typo that was on Pomminstein. Maybe it can be a new nickname :)

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Woof!!

[Sabel79]

lol - not sure what sort of typo that was on Pomminstein. Maybe it can be a new nickname :)

(Maniacal chuckle) Welcome to the board...

[Weave]

*Points and laughs*

 

 

 

Clue of the day- Learn to spell your Sabres names.  Cruel and ruthless autocorrects be there for those that stumble.

Edited August 8, 2017 by We've

[LGR4GM]

He's AHL caliber at best in all phases. Watching him play, I don't know what is that coaches see in him to give him regular minutes. He's not particularly quick, he's a slow plodding skater at top speed, lacks any kind of offensive awareness, can't shoot or pass very well, is undersized, and has a TRpm of -3.. meaning he has a negative influence relative to the average player on the team... which is bad news when on a bad team. To compare ROR has a TRpm of +23.

I don't agree with anything you said about Larsson.

I totally get that idea but I don't think the theory and the reality add up. Some players are just better at one forward position over another. Sure. in theory, a center can be a winger but most of the guys we have just haven't looked as good on the wing. I won't get into Middlestadt cause he is simply an unknown until he plays at the pro level but Girgensens, Larson, even Reinhart are all better at center. The only solid and proven true wingers we have are Okposo and Kane (although I have issues with him for different reasons). Pomminstein now too I guess but it remains to be seen how much he can still bring at this stage.

To my mind if you want this team to be competitive you want these 4 true centers in order: Eichel, O'Reilly, Girgensens and Larrson. (I am taking cap, style and role into that not just the 4 most talented guys). Eichel has to assume the number one scoring line obviously, then O'Reilly can step back his ice time and be what he actually is: the best SECOND line center in the league. They both need solid wingers to play with them. Speedier and more skilled with Eichel and fast but grittier and more 2-way with O'Reilly. Those two lines can then go up against the best from the other team.

The third line should be fast but scrappy. 2-way players who can be a threat. Girgensens is made for that. The 4th line grit and heart.

I just don't see Reinhart fitting into that and some of the other centers haven't shown me enough on the wing to fit in either. So I would have already traded Reinhart for more D, while he is still young, before the rest of the league realizes he is never gonna get where he was expected to be.

 

The true measure of JBot will be how they draft in later rounds. This is where they have failed miserably under Murray. A few years back this team had "the most prospects", the "cupboard was full" and now the opposite is true. Can't think of a single later round guy who has come in and impressed. Pittsburgh, on the other hand, had several so if he had a hand in any of those picks maybe we will be ok in time.

 

lol - not sure what sort of typo that was on Pomminstein. Maybe it can be a new nickname :)

Cliff Pu, Nick Baptiste, Victor Oloffsson.

 

You saying Murray didn't is silly because I don't expect a 3rd round plus guy to hit the nhl for at least 3 years and reasonably 4-5

[jeffismagic]

Murray had a great last 2 drafts. He should not have been fired. But Jbots impresses me. You can tell he is very smart.

[LGR4GM]

Murray had a great last 2 drafts. He should not have been fired. But Jbots impresses me. You can tell he is very smart.

I thought Murray shouldn't be fired at first but currently I think Botterill is an improvement. He's smart n clever.

[7+6=13]

Guess I'm a pessimist but no way does this team make the playoffs as is. It's going to take time to change the culture, change the style. Nylander didn't look even close to ready last year so unless he makes huge leaps don't count on him stepping into a starring role just yet. The D is much better but that doesn't say much. It'll take time to learn Housley's system as it's a complete 180 from what they've been doing. Big time growing pains.

I still expect MANY moves before we get fully going in the right direction. Too many guys who are basically the same mediocre guy. Too many centers. Time to stop just sticking centers on the wing and move a few of them for actual wingers. 

 

IMO the case your trying to make is much more difficult than making the playoffs.  That's a lot that would have to go wrong. 

 

I find it unlikely that Housley's system will create "big time growing pains".  It will definitely be a work in progress that hopefully gets better and better - but it's no secret that most players hated Bylsma's system so there should be a certain level of excitement.  In addition there's potentially 8 new players on the roster that didn't play in the old system and there's many vets that have played in multiple systems that could pick it up faster than you think.

 

A healthy Eichel and Okposo with an improved defense alone is reason to debate it's a playoff team - add in another factor or two and the debate is legit. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

IMO the case your trying to make is much more difficult than making the playoffs.  That's a lot that would have to go wrong. 

 

A healthy Eichel and Okposo with an improved defense alone is reason to debate it's a playoff team - add in another factor or two and the debate is legit.

 

Health is the biggest factor for this team.

 

Last year's squad lost 63 games from our top 5 forwards, another 86 games from our top 6 D and still managed to earn 78 points. What would have happened had we stayed mostly healthy? 85? 90 pts?

 

On paper we are certainly better on defense to start the season. If healthy, they should lower our shots against and therefore our goals against. On paper the forward group is basically the same. If they can remain healthy, then their output should increase. Our goal differential was -36 last season. A 10% improved on both ends would get us to a +7 next year. Every team last season, but TB, who had a + differential made the playoffs. Only Ott made it with a - differential, but they only allowed 214 goals.

[LGR4GM]

Health is the biggest factor for this team.

 

Last year's squad lost 63 games from our top 5 forwards, another 86 games from our top 6 D and still managed to earn 78 points. What would have happened had we stayed mostly healthy? 85? 90 pts?

 

On paper we are certainly better on defense to start the season. If healthy, they should lower our shots against and therefore our goals against. On paper the forward group is basically the same. If they can remain healthy, then their output should increase. Our goal differential was -36 last season. A 10% improved on both ends would get us to a +7 next year. Every team last season, but TB, who had a + differential made the playoffs. Only Ott made it with a - differential, but they only allowed 214 goals.

Didn't Toronto have a freakishly long run of no major players getting injured last year?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Didn't Toronto have a freakishly long run of no major players getting injured last year?

Their top 5 forwards lost 6 games to injury and their top 5 D lost 23. Their 6th D, Marincin was injured and replaced by Connor Carrick who played 67 games (plus an additional 5 in the AHL) and won the job long-term.