darksabre Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Bogo and a 5th for Arizona's 2nd round pick. I would just give them Bogo and a 5th. They don't even have to give us anything back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Does the above proposal not qualify? Ordinarily, yes. But since I don't want to admit to having missed it...no. :p I would just give them Bogo and a 5th. They don't even have to give us anything back. Chicago had to give up Teravainen to dump Bickell's contract. Is Bogo's worse than his? I think it might be, but I hope the league doesn't see it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) That's the thing: I'm not sure how likely it is that the D man we hypothetically get at 8 actually becomes a top pair D man, and to my mind the chances he does is favourably offset by the added benefits of adding a bona-fide top 4 D talent who, A - can step in right away and increase the chances of maximizing the young careers/contacts of guys like Jack and Sam (and even maximizing the primes of guys like ROR and Okposo), rather than have to wait several years for that drafted D to make an impact. And B - is still relatively young, and able to grow with our young core, and not be purely a "win now" guy.Our pipeline is drained. Blame it on GMTM trading away our picks or Sabres raiding the cupboard, it's nearly dry. It needs some youth pumped into it and, bust or not, drafting 8 will go towards improving this. We won't be true Cup contenders next year and likely not the year after either. And it's the coach's job to maximize the young careers/contacts of guys like Jack and Sam, not via trading for other players. Edited May 3, 2017 by kas23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Slight momentary topic change, but does anyone know if Kane's agent has stated whether or not they are open to discussing a contract extension come July? I only bring it up in this thread because it is central to how we approach much of this, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Our pipeline is drained. Blame it on GMTM trading away our picks or Sabres raiding the cupboard, it's nearly dry. It needs some youth pumped into it and, bust or not, drafting 8 will go towards improving this. We won't be true Cup contenders next year and likely not the year after either. And it's the coach's job to maximize the young careers/contacts of guys like Jack and Sam, not via trading for other players. There's no reason we can't have the expectation of being a contender in two seasons. Oilers already have a fair shot this year. Leafs took the Caps to 6 games this year, and were dead last, last year. You can win in today's NHL with stars on ELCs. We have other draft picks this year, and I don't believe our pipeline is drained, at least not at forward. Our core is also very young, so we have time to restock. And how is it not also the GMs job to maximize the roster when there is remaining flexibility? Have to try and put together a team that can win now. We can't wait 3 more seasons to attempt to be contenders. What are we waiting for, Jack's UFA years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krt88 Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Your chance to say who you would target, what you would pay, and how stupid the other guy's proposal is. I'll start: Evander Kane, Justin Bailey and pick 8 For Cam Fowler and pick 26 Depends on how the playoffs unfold, but there is a good chance that the Ducks look at Theodore and Montour and say "Cam's great, but do we really need to pay him $7 million?" Each team trades from a position of strength to fill a position of weakness. Contract situations match Solves the Ducks expansion problem. Fire away. Easy pass for Anaheim. Sabres get best players, Ducks get biggest contract and the picks are irrelevant in this draft. Bailey doesn't make up the difference. My preferred targets would be two of Fowler, Trouba Ekholm, Ellis. I don't expect any of them to be moved, so combining my preferences with expectations, I arrive at players more like Vatanen and Brodin. Kane and a 3rd for Brodin. #8, Bailey/Baptiste, Girgensons for Vatanen and #27. Brodin-Risto McCabe-Vatanen Guhle-Antipin Falk Bogo banished somewhere. Anywhere. Gorges in the A. First one could work if the Wild are willing to take on Kane. Not sure they'd do that. Second has zero chance! Young cost controlled defense for spare parts. Nope, never gonna get it done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) Our pipeline is drained. Blame it on GMTM trading away our picks or Sabres raiding the cupboard, it's nearly dry.People forget how young Risto and McCabe are.Those two and Guhle could be half our defence for a decade. I'm not saying trade 8 for someone like Brent Seabrook, but I have no problem sacrificing an 18-year-old talent this year for a guy in his mid-20s. Hell, we get lucky and we could replenish the pipeline with our two second-rounders this year. Defenceman cook slower and last longer. I'd rather have Cam Fowler or Jonas Brodin now than a kid who will turn into them five years from now. Our forwards can't wait for our D to catch up. Edited May 3, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 People forget how young Risto and McCabe are. Those two and Guhle could be half our defence for a decade. I'm not saying trade 8 for someone like Brent Seabrook, but I have no problem sacrificing an 18-year-old talent this year for a guy in his mid-20s. Hell, we get lucky and we could replenish the pipeline with our two second-rounders this year. Defenceman cook slower and last longer. I'd rather have Cam Fowler or Jonas Brodin now than a kid who will turn into them five years from now. Our forwards can't wait for our D to catch up. I'm 74 but if I were 34 I'd agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 People forget how young Risto and McCabe are. Those two and Guhle could be half our defence for a decade. I'm not saying trade 8 for someone like Brent Seabrook, but I have no problem sacrificing an 18-year-old talent this year for a guy in his mid-20s. Hell, we get lucky and we could replenish the pipeline with our two second-rounders this year. Defenceman cook slower and last longer. I'd rather have Cam Fowler or Jonas Brodin now than a kid who will turn into them five years from now. Our forwards can't wait for our D to catch up. To me, the bolded is THE key point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) There's no reason we can't have the expectation of being a contender in two seasons. Oilers already have a fair shot this year. Leafs took the Caps to 6 games this year, and were dead last, last year. You can win in today's NHL with stars on ELCs. We have other draft picks this year, and I don't believe our pipeline is drained, at least not at forward. Our core is also very young, so we have time to restock. And how is it not also the GMs job to maximize the roster when there is remaining flexibility? Have to try and put together a team that can win now. We can't wait 3 more seasons to attempt to be contenders. What are we waiting for, Jack's UFA years? Well, by Cup contender, I mean cup contender. I don't consider Toronto or Edm cup contenders although they made the playoffs. Nashville or the Caps are Cup contenders. So, I don't think we should be mortgaging the future until we get to that point. Right? I think that just with Guhle and Antipin, assuming they are not complete flops, we should be where Toronto and Edm are in about 2 years. You look at how they have been developing, they've been rebuilding longer than we have. It's not a surprise they are ahead of us. That said, I don't think anything on-ice lead to D Day. It must have been the lack of character and structure. People forget how young Risto and McCabe are. Those two and Guhle could be half our defence for a decade. I'm not saying trade 8 for someone like Brent Seabrook, but I have no problem sacrificing an 18-year-old talent this year for a guy in his mid-20s. Hell, we get lucky and we could replenish the pipeline with our two second-rounders this year. Defenceman cook slower and last longer. I'd rather have Cam Fowler or Jonas Brodin now than a kid who will turn into them five years from now. Our forwards can't wait for our D to catch up. I'm not saying we have no young players in our system, it's just that below the Sabres, there really isn't too much to get excited about. I want a steady stream of great prospects in all facets of our farm system. This is how the great teams remain competeative. That said, I think our #8 is more important than adding Brodin. I'd rather have Fowler than #8, but there's no way we get #8 for him. And I don't think #8 is going to take 5 years to turn in to something. Patience! Edited May 3, 2017 by kas23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Well, by Cup contender, I mean cup contender. I don't consider Toronto or Edm cup contenders although they made the playoffs. Nashville or the Caps are Cup contenders. So, I don't think we should be mortgaging the future until we get to that point. Right? I think that just with Guhle and Antipin, assuming they are not complete flops, we should be where Toronto and Edm are in about 2 years. You look at how they have been developing, they've been rebuilding longer than we have. It's not a surprise they are ahead of us. That said, I don't think anything on-ice lead to D Day. It must have been the lack of character and structure. I'm not saying we have no young players in our system, it's just that below the Sabres, there really isn't too much to get excited about. I want a steady stream of great prospects in all facets of our farm system. This is how the great teams remain competeative. I agree that we don't want to mortgage the future, but that's why I'll reference dudacek and agree that I don't want to trade the pick for a Seabrook. But if we can leverage it into a young defender like Brodin who can step right in, due to Minnesota expansion draft concerns, I make the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Just because Fowler was avaliable a year ago doesn't still mean he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tondas Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Offer sheet Gostisbehere where Philly can't match. Hopefully, Gio (not re-signed), Moulson (Las Vegas favor by McPhee) , and Kane (trade for draft choice) will be elsewhere and off our books. That's over 10 million to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 No one is answering the question of what we really need. 1) Norris type D man - We have this covered with Risto 2) 1st Line steady D who eats minutes - we may have this covered with McCabe. 3) Second line puck mover to eat minutes and fill in as 2nd PP QB - This is the big missing piece! Could Antipin be a value solution here? Brodin (LD) in trade? Vatanen (RD)? Other? 4) Partner for D no. 3. I don't think O is a necessity here, but some physical play would be nice. Scandella? 5 & 6) The bottom pairing - Ideally 2 guys that can skate and take on 15 minutes a night. Physical play would be nice. Not expecting big numbers. Mix of youth and vets for cap reasons. Guhle for one of these jobs? Bogo? 7 & 8) Depth D - Falk, Gorges, Nelson - UFA vets? Ultimately what we are really missing is a full 2nd pairing. If Antipin works as the puck mover for the 2nd line, then what we need to acquire in trade (or FA) is an Alzner or maybe a Marco Scandella from Minn. I'd rather get a Vatanen or Brodin send Guhle to the A for a year and make Antipin the 3rd pairing puck mover. Trade options 1) Scandella for a 2nd rd pick. (Minn needs cap relief, and draft picks) 2) Brodin for Fasching, a 2nd this season and 1st next season. (Minn needs cap relief, picks and a local RW if they choose to trade away someone like Neiderreider. 3) Vatanen and Stoner for Kane and a 3rd. (Ana needs cap relief to re-sign Fowler and more offensive punch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) No one is answering the question of what we really need. 3) Second line puck mover to eat minutes and fill in as 2nd PP QB - This is the big missing piece! Could Antipin be a value solution here? Brodin (LD) in trade? Vatanen (RD)? Other?) I think I did - Ryan Murray is that guy. Smooth and steady, still young, possibly undervalued, possibly available (because Werenski). Edited May 4, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 I think I did - Ryan Murray is that guy. Smooth and steady, still young, possibly undervalued, possibly available (because Werenski). Missed that post. He may be available. http://www.jacketscannon.com/2017/5/3/15525024/who-is-vladislav-gavrikov-and-can-he-make-ryan-murray-expendable-in-columbus Will they take a high 2nd rd prospect for him? Do we want a talented but oft injured player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) Missed that post. He may be available. http://www.jacketscannon.com/2017/5/3/15525024/who-is-vladislav-gavrikov-and-can-he-make-ryan-murray-expendable-in-columbus Will they take a high 2nd rd prospect for him? Do we want a talented but oft injured player? I like to roll the dice on talent and I will always give up a little more if I'm getting the best player.(I'm like Tim Murray that way.) ???? Edited May 4, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 I like to roll the dice on talent and I will always give up a little more if I'm getting the best player. (I'm like Tim Murray that way.) I dont think Asplund would be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 I don't think Asplund would be enough for Ryan Murray either. But I might do #8 for Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) I dont think Asplund would be enough. I agree. Eight makes me queasy, so that might be the price. Edited May 4, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 I agree. Eight makes me queasy, so that might be the price. I think i'd rather have Brodin. I'm also worried that all the ideas, Brodin, Murray, Scandella are all LD. With Guhle and Antipin coming, isn't an RD more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 What would it take to get Chris Tanev and does he fit ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 What would it take to get Chris Tanev and does he fit ? Probably too much, and on the IR next to Bogo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 Probably too much, and on the IR next to Bogo? ah. Injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 4, 2017 Report Share Posted May 4, 2017 I think i'd rather have Brodin. I'm also worried that all the ideas, Brodin, Murray, Scandella are all LD. With Guhle and Antipin coming, isn't an RD more appropriate. Vatanen is a rightie. Also, Antipin can reportedly play either side, lending us a bit of acquisition flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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