Reinhart Dressed and Benched; Late to Meeting

[bunomatic]

Management and coaches don't like grey. They want black and white. So stanley cup finals 2019 Jack Eichel sleeps in for stretches the morning of game 7 against the Flames. The coach has no choice and no wiggle room to devise another form of punishment rather than sitting his star player in a game 7 because they preferred to make their rule book on tardiness etched in stone. There would be blood in the streets of Buffalo and heads would roll. And it would serve them right. Treat these guys like adults and they'll act like adults. 

[PASabreFan]

What's the point of that Anderson Cooper video? Christ. Eff that elitist prick. Those giggles might have foretold today's political climate.

 

Oh, and solid work, d4rk, dissing the humorless maniacally focused ###### of a captain we had who, absent an AHL D corps, would've delivered us a Cup.

 

Also, I don't buy for a minute that ROR's leadership hackles are up. More and more, his wee Timmy Ho's fender bender seems more reflective of his locker room character than many of our previously imagined fantasies that he was the future Captain.

Whoa! Go get some, Smell!

 

d4rk used the word dingus, and that got me to remembering Coop's epic laughing jag surrounding a story on Dyngus Day.

Hat tip to WC here, but what kind of sports organization notifies players of team events via text? (Or did he get a text from another player as a reminder?) You'd think they'd have a printed itinerary for the players. That way, no one can say their phone died or something.

[bunomatic]

Whoa! Go get some, Smell!

 

d4rk used the word dingus, and that got me to remembering Coop's epic laughing jag surrounding a story on Dyngus Day.

Hat tip to WC here, but what kind of sports organization notifies players of team events via text? (Or did he get a text from another player as a reminder?) You'd think they'd have a printed itinerary for the players. That way, no one can say their phone died or something.

Dog ate their homework ?

[Randall Flagg]

Didn't the Kings win cups being led by a bunch of guys who spent all their free time with cocaine at parties? IDGAF that Samson was accidentally late to a practice after misreading a text. This team will win a cup when it passes a talent threshold, gets a real coach, and gets some luck. Just like every other team that has won a cup, whether they were full of choir boys or douchebag locker room cancers.

And for what it's worth, my impression of Reinhart's interview is that he sounds mildly curt, professional, and entirely benign. I saw nothing wrong with it at all. 

Big ###### whoop. Get a better coach.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[Two or less]

Didn't the Kings win cups being led by a bunch of guys who spent all their free time with cocaine at parties? IDGAF that Samson was accidentally late to a practice after misreading a text. This team will win a cup when it passes a talent threshold, gets a real coach, and gets some luck. Just like every other team that has won a cup, whether they were full of choir boys or douchebag locker room cancers.

And for what it's worth, my impression of Reinhart's interview is that he sounds mildly curt, professional, and entirely benign. I saw nothing wrong with it at all. 

 

Big ###### whoop. Get a better coach.

 

My thoughts are the same. I don't care much that he was late either. I also don't care if he lied about misreading a text and i don't care about what the true story behind it is.

 

I do care more about Reinhart not working out post-practice with ROR anymore though. When Samson came to the Sabres he was considered a workaholic. But this season it seems several people reported that he rarely shows he does work before or after practice and hasn't worked out with ROR in a long time after practice. Reinhart should be a pivotal part of this teams success going forward, but there are still several flaws in his game. Hopefully he spends a lot of time this summer working on those and comes as a even better and stronger player next season.

 

But i still have confidence that he'll be a star and in Buffalo for a very long time.

[WildCard]

Honestly the entire working out pre/post practice with RoR as a sign if displaying work ethic is garbage to me. 

[Two or less]

Honestly the entire working out pre/post practice with RoR as a sign if displaying work ethic is garbage to me. 

 

I never said anything about work ethic. All i said is i'm more concerned about him being first at practice, last at practice and working out with ROR then i am about him being late to a meeting.

[WildCard]

I never said anything about work ethic. All i said is i'm more concerned about him being first at practice, last at practice and working out with ROR then i am about him being late to a meeting.

What's the difference?

[Two or less]

What's the difference?

 

If you do something like that for over a year on a mostly daily basis, then all of a sudden stop, i guess i'm wondering what happened? And i'm not concerned one bit about him being late for the meeting.

[JJFIVEOH]

 

 

[North Buffalo]

Man, this is a much larger deal on here and maybe a talk show than any real evidence would warrant. We must be real bored.

We are, this team isn't making the playoffs... again... and this more just more evidence of why... team misplaced priorities... http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/30/sabres-view-reinharts-punishment-didnt-fit-crime/ Sorry focus on something more important like working extra on say getting back on defense and then hustling up to create a scoring chance and then back again.  Work on outlet passes, but 5 min late for stretching... hand them all a yoga mat, turn on some appropriate background music, turn up the heat and stretch.... pulease...  

 

Seriously, again punishment does not fit the crime... and this one is stupid.  with a capital S especially because the team isn't in the hunt again.

What's the difference?

It was stretching... Kumbaya team activities.

Never heard of this but this is truly ridiculous.  

[TrueBlueGED]

This thread has reached a level I never anticipated. I'll let you all decide if I mean a high or a low level :p

[North Buffalo]

This thread has reached a level I never anticipated. I'll let you all decide if I mean a high or a low level :P

Then you won't mind:  

 

 

Stretching 101, ps lady in the middle late still undoing her mat... wonder if she was made to sit in uniform for the entire session...guess not... but hey rules are rules...

Edited March 31, 2017 by North Buffalo

[LaLaLaFontaine]

He is 5 minutes late to a meeting, he had a clean slate before, was an excellent member of the team and gets punished like that.

 

this is ridiculous, he is not a kid he is an adult This maybe cost us the game, so this stupid punsihment cost us 2 points.

 

To have a coach team like that is sad. If GMTM supports this too, it is even more sad.

 

Treat your players like kids and they will perform like kids.

 

Why is DD not benched in the press room when he up ( and yes he did a lot this year)

[pi2000]

He is 5 minutes late to a meeting, he had a clean slate before, was an excellent member of the team and gets punished like that.

 

this is ridiculous, he is not a kid he is an adult This maybe cost us the game, so this stupid punsihment cost us 2 points.

 

To have a coach team like that is sad. If GMTM supports this too, it is even more sad.

 

Treat your players like kids and they will perform like kids.

 

Why is DD not benched in the press room when he ###### up ( and yes he did a lot this year)

He was insubordinate. Rules are rules, they're trying to build a winning culture and it starts off the ice. This isn't junior hockey where you get a slap on the wrist, this is PRO hockey where it's your sole purpose in life, to be on time and act like a professional.

[North Buffalo]

Rules dontt build winning cultures. Talent and putting guys in a framework that takes proper advantage of their talent wins games.

 

Structure needs flexibility to adjust to changing circumstances.

 

Good coaches know how to adjust effectively... old adages he can beat your and take yours and beat his.

Edited March 31, 2017 by North Buffalo

[LTS]

Oh I care, but after reading Murray decision... he is a ahole and TPegs needs to fire him. 5 min late... hell we have a 7 min rule at work. They docs us 1/4 hour if more.... in this case equiv of 5 min in NHL time... I come from another hosp 2 days and traffic gets me. And again... making him sit on bench dressed is BS... F Murray.

 

What if you are 8 minutes late?  I mean it's close right?  The punishment was stated.  Every player knew it.  He got caught up in it.  Period.  If you want to argue that missing a game should not be the penalty that's fine but stop acting like it wasn't warranted in this situation.  At the time of the infraction the team policy was CLEARLY if you are late, you miss a game.  It was so clear that it was stated only 24 hours earlier.

 

The problem with black & white rules is they work in theory, rarely in practice

 

DD should have made him healthy scratch for Sunday, plain and simple --- told the team, under normal circumstances, Sam would be suspended tonight, but, with KO out, he'll be scratched on Sunday --- easy application of the rule, all parties understand situation being unique and life goes on

 

Instead, we get a black & white application of a rule that shames Reinhart and makes this organization look second rate -- I don't get it

 

Disappointing, but not the end of the world

 

The problem with black and white rules is that people want to try and bend them.  They work just fine but people love to bitch and not hold themselves accountable for breaking the "black and white" rule. Take speeding for example.  If you get pulled over for going 1 mph over the speed limit there is no arguing what you were not speeding.  You might say, it's so hard to tell, I mean what's the difference.  Well, the difference is that rather than push your speed right to the absolute limit you could drive 1mph under to giver yourself a buffer.  Unfortunately most people aren't wired that way and they'd rather argue that "it's just 1 mph over".  Now, we all know that rarely does it happen that you get pulled over for 1mph over... but if you want to test the theory drive through Franklinville, NY and argue with the kind police officer when he pulls you over.

 

Finally, I wholeheartedly disagree with this making the Sabres look like a second rate organization but I do fully agree that you don't get it.

 

 

I'm not surprised that Sam thinks the punishment was kinda dumb. He was late to a team stretch, appealed to his coach and GM to let it slide because evidently it was an honest mistake, and then is punished by being forced to sit on the bench for 60 minutes and watch his teammates lose.

 

I'm the kind of person that doesn't believe in sweating the small stuff. This whole benching rule BS reeks of making a big deal out of nothing. If this is the best that DDB and GMTM can come up with then I'm going to start getting concerned.

 

If you want to build a culture of guys that follow rules and put winning secondary to that, well I can get a certain Cy Hgsn on the phone for you. I bet he'd love to be paddled for breaking the team rules.  :rolleyes: 

 

This team is dumb and it's going to waste the best years of its best players if something doesn't change at the coaching level soon. 

 

The way I read his comments is that he thinks the punishment is dumb but he accepts that he broke the rule.  Every player is going to lobby them to let it slide.  However, he sees himself as a team guy and I think he wanted to be on the bench to support his team and show them that he was a team player. I dislike this attention to detail in this situation and for his willingness to let it slide but I applaud him owning it and wanting to demonstrate to his teammates that he's there for them.

 

This is not about following the rules so much as doing what it takes to win. Cutting corners and lowering expectations is never the way to win or succeed.  I have taught my kids one mantra "If you cheat on the ice, you get beat on the ice."  It holds true on the ice and off.  If the drill says you skate to the line you don't skate to within 2 feet of the line, you skate to the line.  Those who want to say it was "close enough" can also use that excuse when they don't backcheck hard enough and were "close enough" that they couldn't get a stick on the guy who just put the puck in the net.

 

"Close enough" sucks.  I could say some crap about hand grenades here.

 

Again it sounds like a GMTM new policy, a concern in itself that DD is not leading the team, it was executed poorley... making him sit on the bench dressed the whole game for 5 min. Stupid, stupid, stupid.... now thinking both idiots need to go...

 

It was executed perfectly.  As I said, based on Reinhart's latest comments I believe he wanted to be on the bench supporting his teammates.

 

It's been mentioned before that Jack and Dan frequently butt heads. The WGR guys asked Rayzor about it and he kinda tried to play it off as nothing, but I get the feeling it's not nothing. I think the working relationship between Jack and Dan is strained, and I would assume most of the other young guys are in Jack's corner. 

 

I also assume that Gionta is only in Dan's corner because he's trying to keep his career alive. I mean, I don't blame the guy, but I could see the young guys clashing with their Captain a bit if he's taking a purely "keep your head down" approach to his coach and GM. 

 

I think Jack and Dan butt heads and I am sure it's both on the ice and off the ice stuff.  However, I don't think Gio is just trying to keep his career alive.  You are talking about a guy who has been the Captain of two franchises, one of them being THE iconic franchise of the NHL.  He's a leader and he's been around some unbelievable talent.  He's WON and he know's what it takes to WIN.  

 

He is 5 minutes late to a meeting, he had a clean slate before, was an excellent member of the team and gets punished like that.

 

this is ridiculous, he is not a kid he is an adult This maybe cost us the game, so this stupid punsihment cost us 2 points.

 

To have a coach team like that is sad. If GMTM supports this too, it is even more sad.

 

Treat your players like kids and they will perform like kids.

 

Why is DD not benched in the press room when he ###### up ( and yes he did a lot this year)

 

If he's an adult then why was he late?  Reinhart was late, he cost the team 2 points (using your point).  I would say that holding the players accountable is treating the players like responsible adults.  Here's your schedule, follow it.  Kids are more apt to get a slide from the rules than adults.

 

 

Overall I am going to leave it at this.  There is a camp in here that wants to make excuses for the "star" players. You have placed the blame on the coach, the GM, and questioned everything but the player himself.  Is there no personal accountability in your world? Do you make excuses for everything when you feel something is "dumb"?

 

That's a huge problem with society today.  I don't want to do this because I think it's stupid or I shouldn't have to.  You don't have to do it, but you don't get an exemption from the ramifications.

 

What I want on a team are players who are always striving to perfection.  It's not achievable but if you create a culture where being 5 minutes late is accepted then you will soon have all players showing up 5 minutes late.  Then it will be 10 minutes late because hey.. what's 5 minutes right?  You are setting the bar lower rather than higher.  You are holding yourself less accountable.

 

Our society does this all the time.  "Oh this is hard?  Let's lower the standards.  There you are."  Precious snowflake.  Own your damn mistakes, own your lack of execution.

 

I am going to leave one thing here.  I've been coaching awhile and last year we used this video as a demonstration for the kids.  I think it holds true to a lot of things.

 

 

And this year's video, which I just watched.  Hell you can watch them all on YouTube.  That's a culture of winning.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by LTS

[inkman]

I assume he didn't misread 10:30 but misremembered it? Seems more logical and if I was explaining what happened I would describe it as misreading a text.

Or there was a list of activities:

 

10:30 Stretch

11:00 skate

12:00 meeting

1:00 team lunch

[North Buffalo]

If im 8 min late im docked 15 min, not the whole fin shift. Again rules and structure need some flexibilty to fit circumstances. Yes punish him but not abitrary and capricious punishment.

[Derrico]

Didn't the Kings win cups being led by a bunch of guys who spent all their free time with cocaine at parties? IDGAF that Samson was accidentally late to a practice after misreading a text. This team will win a cup when it passes a talent threshold, gets a real coach, and gets some luck. Just like every other team that has won a cup, whether they were full of choir boys or douchebag locker room cancers.

 

And for what it's worth, my impression of Reinhart's interview is that he sounds mildly curt, professional, and entirely benign. I saw nothing wrong with it at all.

 

Big ###### whoop. Get a better coach.

I like this take.

[TrueBlueGED]

He was insubordinate. Rules are rules, they're trying to build a winning culture and it starts off the ice. This isn't junior hockey where you get a slap on the wrist, this is PRO hockey where it's your sole purpose in life, to be on time and act like a professional.

1) Insubordination requires intent. Do you honestly think he woke up saying "This rule is dumb. I'm going to break it on purpose! That'll show em!"

 

2) "Sole purpose in life." My eyes have officially rolled so far back into my skull, I may never see again.

Edited March 31, 2017 by TrueBlueGED

[pi2000]

Great post LTS, I couldn't agree more.

[North Buffalo]

1) Insubordination requires intent. Do you honestly think he woke up saying "This rule is dumb. I'm going to break it on purpose! That'll show em!"

2) "Sole purpose in life." My eyes have officially rolled so far back into my skill, I may never see again.

You have Skills?! Darn mobile phones... you should be punished... say a month ban... in uniform for that mispelling.

Great post LTS, I couldn't agree more.

Yeh we know, everyone fall in line to the slaughterhouse..

[pi2000]

1) Insubordination requires intent. Do you honestly think he woke up saying "This rule is dumb. I'm going to break it on purpose! That'll show em!"

 

2) "Sole purpose in life." My eyes have officially rolled so far back into my skull, I may never see again.

The fact that he was laying in bed waiting to go down for breakfast less than 30min before a scheduled team event tells me he doesn't respect the rules.

 

Being a pro is all about preparation.

 

Hus excuse is the same as blaming traffic for being late to work. Lame.

[SabresFanInRochester]

He is 5 minutes late to a meeting, he had a clean slate before, was an excellent member of the team and gets punished like that.

 

this is ridiculous, he is not a kid he is an adult This maybe cost us the game, so this stupid punsihment cost us 2 points.

 

To have a coach team like that is sad. If GMTM supports this too, it is even more sad.

 

Treat your players like kids and they will perform like kids.

 

Why is DD not benched in the press room when he ###### up ( and yes he did a lot this year)

I agree that this is overblown. I understand that you need rules and that you are building a culture. Remember the first time you were pulled over for speeding? Did you get off with a warning, or did the police officer follow the rules? A you a deviant and deserving of being deported if you break the rules?

 

I am reading into this that DD has lost control of the team. To have to pull the GMTM in to put a policy in place tells me that the coach is not handling things. Eichel said he was benched for a PP for being late to a meeting. So, this apparently has happened with inconsistent repercussions. I do not have evidence to say that players being late for meetings is a rampant occurrence, but if there are inconsistent punishments, then you inadvertently show favoritism. And if your players think they can get away with it, I don't think it reflects they don't care about their team, but it does reflect they think they can get away with it. I put that on the coach's discipline. And, this very well could have been an honest mistake. If someone is going to be late because of traffic, a snowstorm, or an accident -- what do you consider viable excuses and which offenses do you discipline.

 

Maybe the players thought they could simply sneak into meetings late while DD's head was buried on the whiteboard drafting up his masterful system. And, I wonder what the punishment is for sleeping through one of DD's high-emotion speeches would be. zzz zzz zzz (I do not like DD.)

The fact that he was laying in bed waiting to go down for breakfast less than 30min before a scheduled team event tells me he doesn't respect the rules.

 

Being a pro is all about preparation.

 

Hus excuse is the same as blaming traffic for being late to work. Lame.

That fact that one of his teammates called him and told him there was a team stretch, and he was only 5-6 minutes late tells me he was ready to go, and in his room waiting it out. How early would you show up for a team stretch? And since McCabe called him, I see that as a tight team... was McCabe penalized for being on his phone during the team stretch?

 

You want black and white with no exceptions, and just like officiating, you cannot have that. There is too much gray area. I mentioned in my above post -- where do you draw the line between legit and a poor excuse. You say no to traffic being a reason. Is there any legit reason to being late?

 

And Sam strikes me as being a mature young man. I would see him as being the guy that would call to say he's running late. I think he really just screwed up on the time. (I will see it's hard to confuse 10:30 and 11:00 -- they don't really look the same, but as stated earlier, who arranges the team schedule via text messages???)